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Stock props

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mercillus, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. mercillus

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    New to posting here. Been reading everyone's stories from success to broken. I thought I would share one of mine.

    In my trial and error of different props I have found plastic stock props are just as good as carbon.. However you MUST balance them, all props need balancing... So far my different carbon attempts only helped my craft fly a bit quicker but at the same time louder.. Jello was the same as stock if unbalanced. Balance them and the video is as good as it gets. I am going back to plastic stock props for now. . Now that I know this I will be playing around with different pitches and lengths. Tonight I am going to balance out some 9x4.7's in plastic with the hopes of cutting wind a bit better. NEED MORE SPEED in our high winds. So if anyone has any suggestions I am all ears (eyes)..
     
  2. Sac D

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    I don't care about going faster... I'm just out to get a good setup that gives a smooth flight. And therefore, I have been trying out all kinds of props too. Flying style probably differs among pilots, and what works for some may not be the same as what others want. It's well worth testing to find out what works best for you. One thing that's universal is BALANCE those props! That alone provides more benefit to all than anything else that can be done.
     
  3. mercillus

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    I may not be articulating this correctly as I am that new to this hobby. Coming from racing cars. So in short I need to be able to cut the wind a bit better and also offer a smooth flight. Right now I seem to be just fighting winds. The new props are good at certain maneuvers but overall they were no better than stock. On the decent they wobble almost scary like :shock: . Seems for the best flight overall the white stock props work pretty good. So would it be better to change a gain with stock props?
     
  4. telecaster

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    I am sorry but I think you will get more and more "scary" wobbles with the stock plastic props.
    The reason for this is the flex in plastic props, more flex more wobble. And to make things even
    worse, the faster you go, the more they will flex and the result is more wobble.
    I have not been able to make my plastic props as good as the GraupnersEprops, or the XOAR wooden props
    I am currently using. I have been flying RC models for more years then I care to count :) so I have
    made all the mistakes one can make I guess, and one of the experiences I have made is that
    the stiffer the props the easier it is to balance to get rid of vibration.
    Another issue that causes wobbeling (hard word write for one who is not fluent in English :) ) is the
    motors, you need to balance them too, to get rid of jello.
    Lastly, the Phantom is an upgraded toy, not a downgraded professional platform, what ever time and
    money to invest into it it will only be so good, not better.
    If you are serious about photo and video from the air, you should spend your money on a better
    platform, I like my Phantom, but it will always be a nice toy for me.
     
  5. AirNelson

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    I'm going to have to argue with you on the wobble effect with stiff versus the plastic stock props. I bought two sets of the zinger 9x4 wooden props and I balanced them but they still were terrible. The slightest wind and it looked as if the thing was going to flip over. Decreasing throttle at all would cause serious serious wobble, never experienced anything even remotely close with 40 flights with stock props. Very unsatisfied with these stiff props. Flew them twice and took them off and I'll never use them again. Pure junk and terrible terrible flight versus stock props.
     
  6. telecaster

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    I hear you, but still my (and my flying buddies) experience is as I stated.
    We are using 8x5, can your problems come from the 9x4 size?
    Its really too much with 9´s on the Phantom unless you are putting on a lot of xtra weight.....

    I still do not understand how cheap plastic props with a lot of flex can better for vibration issues ? :)
     
  7. darkhorse

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    Would tri-tip propellers work on the Phantom? More/less lift? less vibration?
     
  8. Gizmo3000

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    read rom one person who tried them that there wasn't much benefit from them.
    (plus how can you balance them??)
     
  9. Sac D

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    Did someone say tri-tip? Mmmm... fire up the BBQ.

    Oh wait... nevermind. LOL
     
  10. tanasit

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    Wobble as you descend is not easy to fix because the Phantom's 4 blades are coming down through the so called "bad air" column. The usual lift can not be obtained while coming down the column of air that is flowing downward. The NAZA will detect this unstable state and try to correct at its best but the lift from the prop is not enough.

    As for the wobble in flight, it depends on the GAIN setting but in general the stiff props like the carbon fiber tend to generate the oscillation more than the stock flexible props at the same GAIN setting. This is because the stiff props is more precise in moving the amount of air required to compensate for either pitch, roll or yaw. In other words with the same GAIN setting the carbon prop will be more efficient in "correcting" the unstableness or you can say faster response than the flex plastic prop. As a result, if the GAIN is too high, the too fast response will generate the unwanted oscillation.

    Note that most high end multicopters use the carbon fiber prop, simply because they carry a ton of weight so wobble is less of an issue for them.

    First I tried a set of 9x5 carbon fiber props with naked Phantom with default gain setting and it oscillated so bad. I played with the GAIN setting but still couldn't get a smooth flight. Next I put on a camera and it felt better but still with some wobble, then I added another pack of battery and the wobble is gone. Later I cut the prop down to 8x5 and it is still not good with default GAIN setting. Finally when I received the 8x4.5 carbon fiber set, it is very smooth and less wobble when coming down.

    In conclusion: GAIN setting, Phantom AUW and prop size will also play the role if it will wobble not just the material type of the prop.
     
  11. mercillus

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    tanasit thank you. that is what I was wanting to learn. Gain plus different size and or stiffness makes a difference. Quick question. Do you recall what gains you found to work with certain size or stiffer ones?
     
  12. tanasit

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    When I tested the 9x5 carbon fiber props, I found 2 different type of oscillations.
    1. With higher GAIN setting pass 180%, the oscillation was of high frequency which means the NAZA was trying to correct but over did it pass the stable stage. This is similar to setting the gyro gain on the helicopter tail control too much, thus the tail wiggles back and forth thus being called "tail fishing" or "tail hunting". You have to lower the gain until it stops. In fact, in the NAZA assistant in BASIC setting and GAIN tap on the left hand side it clearly explains that you have to increase the gain
    10% at a time until the Phantom starts to oscillate then lower another 10% to complete the setup.

    2. At lower GAIN setting (60-80%), the Phantom will oscillate very slowly thus it is called toilet bowl effect or hula hoop effect. This happened when the stabilization is too low and the control to stabilize the craft is not enough. This only occurs while hovering but forward flight suffers less.

    As for the number, you have to try that yourself but those are the two extreme settings that I experienced. In fact, many found the default setting works best all around.
     
  13. mercillus

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  14. Roadkilt

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    Re: Stock props...tight fit makes balancing impractical

    I wanted to balance the props but had a real problem getting them on and off. I was afraid to harm the motors or props with the crazy amount of force i needed to press the props into place. By using a very fine file, rounded on one side and flat on the other and just doing a tiny bit of filing I could get the props to slip on and off but still have the keyed hole intact. Major issue removed, and now I check the balance after every hard landing where prop damage may have happened.
     
  15. tanasit

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    Re: Stock props...tight fit makes balancing impractical

    Since you use the stock props with key, you can apply thin layer of grease (Vaseline will do) on to the bottom of the shafts and nest time you won't have problem removing them either.
    After the hard landing, you may also want to check the prop tracking too. By turning one tip over the fuselage top and look at the gap between the tip and the shell which should be about 1/4", next turn the prop around and see if the other tip yields the same clearance. If they are off too much, change that prop, otherwise you can try filing down the hub's bottom of the "high" side.