setting up and correct settings

[Daruman]

With ISO 100, your average scene in sunlight would require an exposure of roughly 1/100th sec at f11+
If you wanted a shutter speed of 1/60th and use f5.6 you would have to reduce the light by about 3 stops
Using f2.8 would only increase the light falling on the sensor and cause overexposure problems

ND filters aren't to prevent blown out highlights. They reduce the light levels uniformly across the frame .
If you have some areas much brighter than the average of the scene, you can still get blown out highlights with ND filters.
The idea is to reduce the light levels to give proper exposure when using slower shutter speeds.

If you aren't familiar enough with photography, it might be an idea to leave out the ND filters for a while and just get the hang of flying and then using the camera.
You can try ND filters when you are more experienced rather than trying to do everything at once.
You'll still get reasonable looking video without video and it would be one less complication to get your head around while you're beginning.

Meta4. Thanks for your answer.
You say that you have to reduce the light by about 3 stops when having a shutter speed of 1/60th and f5.6. Is that based on experience or based on a math formulation?

- You say that ND filters reduce the light levels uniformly across the frame. Does that mean that lets say a value of 1 gets reduced by 30% to 0.7, that a value of 0.5 gets reduced to 0.35? Isn't that just a simple multiplier?

- Would the image/video be roughly the same if I hypothetically would have same ISO100 and 1/60 shutter, but:
1: f2.8 + ND filter
compared to
2: f5.6 without ND filter?

- And what is the benefit of having slower shutter speeds? Because you mention regarding the ND filter that the idea is to reduce the light levels to give proper exposure when using slower shutter speeds. It feel metaphorically a bit like Tom and Jerry.
Wasn't there a rule of thumb to use for instance 1/60 shutter at 30 fps, and probably 1/120 shutter at 60fps?

- And which ND filter would one recommend when using the drone on travels to countries in the Mediterranean?

Sorry for the questions. But some answers actually raised more questions rather than answers.

 

[Meta4]

- And what is the benefit of having slower shutter speeds? Because you mention regarding the ND filter that the idea is to reduce the light levels to give proper exposure when using slower shutter speeds.

From the questions you are asking, I would recommend you forget about ND filters for now.
You have a lot of other things to concentrate on and learn.
You'll get fairly good video without ND filters and if you don't understand the basics, you'll have trouble complicating things even more.
Start by getting the basics under control and later move on to advanced techniques.

 

[Speedmeister]

Wow, a lot of useful information to digest and apply! Thank you!

 

[bsartist]

I’d like to point out that I think you have f/stop backwards. A common misconception.

The smaller the number, the more light is let in.

F/2.8 is wide open. A lot of light gets let on. F/11 is way closed down. Much less light is let in.

So. If you set ISO at 100 and want to shoot at 1/60 sec shutter speed then you can control light coming in with aperature or ND filters.

If the scene will be overexposed with an ISO of 100 and a shutter speed of 1/60 and an aperature if f/5.6 then you can simply “stop down the lens” by setting the aperature down to, say, f/8 or even further to f/11. If that still isn’t enough and the video will still be overexposed then you can increase the shutter speed. But this is less cinematic. So the next option is to put on an ND filter to cut the light coming in while leaving the shutter speed alone.

These are basic photography concepts that have nothing to do with flying. Some have suggested learning to fly first. Good advice. But maybe you also want to just grab a camera and learn the basics of ISO/aperature/shutter speed.

 

[bsartist]

Sooo.....

Here is how auto exposure ruins a video. Shot this the other morning and left auto exposure on by mistake. Stay with it. Some of the more egregious examples are at about 2:20

 

[Daruman]

I’d like to point out that I think you gave f/stop backwards. A common misconception.

The smaller the number, the more light is let in.

F/2.8 is wide open. A lot of light gets let on. F/11 is way closed down. Much less light is let in.

So. If you set ISO at 100 and want to shoot at 1/60 sec shutter speed then you can control light coming in with aperature or ND filters.

If the scene will be overexposed with an ISO of 100 and a shutter speed of 1/60 and an aperature if f/5.6 then you can simply “stop down the lens” by setting the aperature down to, say, f/8 or even further to f/11. If that still isn’t enough and the video will still be overexposed then you can increase the shutter speed. But this is less cinematic. So the next option is to put on an ND filter to cut the light coming in while leaving the shutter speed alone.

These are basic photography concepts that have nothing to do with flying. Some have suggested learning to fly first. Good advice. But maybe you also want to just grab a camera and learn the basics of ISO/aperature/shutter speed.

Thanks bsartist. This is very useful information. But So an important question in this. If you have the ISO at 100, and shutter at 1/60 (at 30fps), you would traditionally play with the aperture (f.stop). But is there any quality difference when playing with the f.stop? as long as you set the right exposure with it? depth of field? or things that may change?
Because someone else of who'm I love his video's, makes video's of landscapes, but takes in mind having little to no objects too close. With that, he sets the ISO at 100, but the shutter speeds much higher than what traditionally is used (rule of thumb 30fps - 1/60). Then with the rest of his settings, he gets great clarity and detail in his 4k video's without stuttering. I really like this and I am trying to follow in his footsteps with this method. And he likes to set his f.stop at 5.6 as he says he gets the best result. But I will do both this method as well as the traditional one

 

[With The Birds]

From reading this thread I’m going to agree with the consensus here and say give yourself a break and just run in auto settings for a while. Maybe dial in some exposure compensation in very high contrast scenarios. Give yourself a chance to learn the basics.

 

[Daruman]

From reading this thread I’m going to agree with the consensus here and say give yourself a break and just run in auto settings for a while. Maybe dial in some exposure compensation in very high contrast scenarios. Give yourself a chance to learn the basics. Im guessing you weren’t a camera operator in the movie industry.

Wow, thanks.... But I don't want Auto settings. I want to understand the thing. That's why I do my best to understand. I have been following alot of video's, this thread, and as it stands right now, there are alot of concepts and things clear now, with some things Im working on. I know perfectly well what I want, and everything I still miss in either knowledge or a piece of equipment I have been focusing on to get it. Anyway. And no I wasn't a camera operator. I do visual effects and 3D generalist in which these concepts don't or hardly apply. I have been watching done video's for years, only waiting on the point where video quality is acceptable to what I want, without paying the jackpot. Anyway. back on topic.

 

[With The Birds]

Wow, thanks.... But I don't want Auto settings. I want to understand the thing. That's why I do my best to understand. I have been following alot of video's, this thread, and as it stands right now, there are alot of concepts and things clear now, with some things Im working on. I know perfectly well what I want, and everything I still miss in either knowledge or a piece of equipment I have been focusing on to get it. Anyway. And no I wasn't a camera operator. I do visual effects and 3D generalist in which these concepts don't or hardly apply. I have been watching done video's for years, only waiting on the point where video quality is acceptable to what I want, without paying the jackpot. Anyway. back on topic.

You will understand.... My recommendation remains- give yourself a break and get a feel for everything before you quadruple your initial mental workload. You will end up flying into something or watching your AC drift off while your fiddling with your camera settings.

 

[bsartist]

Thanks bsartist. This is very useful information. But So an important question in this. If you have the ISO at 100, and shutter at 1/60 (at 30fps), you would traditionally play with the aperture (f.stop). But is there any quality difference when playing with the f.stop? as long as you set the right exposure with it? depth of field? or things that may change?
Because someone else of who'm I love his video's, makes video's of landscapes, but takes in mind having little to no objects too close. With that, he sets the ISO at 100, but the shutter speeds much higher than what traditionally is used (rule of thumb 30fps - 1/60). Then with the rest of his settings, he gets great clarity and detail in his 4k video's without stuttering. I really like this and I am trying to follow in his footsteps with this method. And he likes to set his f.stop at 5.6 as he says he gets the best result. But I will do both this method as well as the traditional one

Depth of field can be affected by the f/stop setting. But very rarely with drone photography since everything is usually pretty far from the lens. So the main consideration then is keeping the f/stop close to 5.6 because that is generally accepted as the sweet spot for that lens. Not all lenses. That lens. So that’s where an ND filter comes in to cut light down instead of closing the aperature.

But, hey. If you like videos with a higher shutter speed than 2x framerate then go for it. I was merely sharing a commonly accepted rule of thumb.

 

[bsartist]

From reading this thread I’m going to agree with the consensus here and say give yourself a break and just run in auto settings for a while. Maybe dial in some exposure compensation in very high contrast scenarios. Give yourself a chance to learn the basics.

Yes, and he too can have his video ruined like the one I posted. ;-)

 

[With The Birds]

Yes, and he too can have his video ruined like the one I posted. ;-)

Good point Mate... What I’m saying is while doing things in manual isn’t greatly difficult to learn there is a bit in it starting from scratch. I have been shooting stills from my first camera which had a light meter but it was 100% manual. I was flying nitro and electric CP RC heli’s. I had the photography and RC flight part down but when first flying the phantoms i needed to spend some time learning all the features. There is almost no skill required to fly with the GPS but understanding what all the telemetry means, RTH operation, flight modes and what the various warnings mean takes some time.

 

[bsartist]

You will understand.... My recommendation remains- give yourself a break and get a feel for everything before you quadruple your initial mental workload. You will end up flying into something or watching your AC drift off while your fiddling with your camera settings.

Yeah I think one of the issues here is that this seems to have turned into a basic photography lesson. Nothing wrong with that but wex

Good point Mate... What I’m saying is while doing things in manual isn’t greatly difficult to learn there is a bit in it starting from scratch. I have been shooting stills from my first camera which had a light meter but it was 100% manual. I was flying nitro and electric CP RC heli’s. I had the photography and RC flight part down but when first flying the phantoms i needed to spend some time learning all the features. There is almost no skill required to fly with the GPS but understanding what all the telemetry means, RTH operation, flight modes and what the various warnings mean takes some time.

True. He seems to be trying to learn basic photo theory while learning to fly at the same time.

 

[Daruman]

Good point Mate... What I’m saying is while doing things in manual isn’t greatly difficult to learn there is a bit in it starting from scratch. I have been shooting stills from my first camera which had a light meter but it was 100% manual. I was flying nitro and electric CP RC heli’s. I had the photography and RC flight part down but when first flying the phantoms i needed to spend some time learning all the features. There is almost no skill required to fly with the GPS but understanding what all the telemetry means, RTH operation, flight modes and what the various warnings mean takes some time.

Yes. I will mostly fly for now with GPS on. So it won't drift away. Also I have been watching some more experienced drone flying user video's, so Im not entirely in the dark here. And yes I am trying to learn both flying as well as having the highest possible video quality that I want.

But flying obviously comes first. If there are any tips to flying or that any of you could give me perhaps a chronology of things that I should try to do when starting to fly, then you all are welcome. For instance. That you say like. First try to lift off in P mode, because in GPS it's safe to do so, and then try to land (also in P mode). Then try this, and then that, and on and on. Because all of you have been recommending to lay much of the focus for now on flying itself, then I'm all ears. If any of you, have a good chronology of what I could try in my test flights, then let me know! Thanks

 

[Meta4]

But is there any quality difference when playing with the f.stop? as long as you set the right exposure with it? depth of field? or things that may change?

Depth of field is no concern with the lens on the Phantom's camera.
You will have more depth of field than you need at any aperture you use.

And he likes to set his f.stop at 5.6 as he says he gets the best result.

He would find he also got good results if he tried other aperture settings as well.
It's not as if f5.6 is good and other settings aren't.
Here's a nice shot taken at f2.8 to show how good the lens is at full open.
Look at it full screen on a large monitor.
Shipping 2018 - Above & Beyond Photography
There is no reason to stick to just one aperture.

Wow, thanks.... But I don't want Auto settings. I want to understand the thing.

It was good advice.
Using automatic settings doesn't mean you won't understand what you are doing.
If you don't have the photographic experience, it's very easy to make a mess of things by trying to use manual settings.
Since you are also needing to learn to fly safely, it would be a good idea to use auto settings while you learn to use the camera and to fly.

 

[umanbean]

If there are any tips to flying or that any of you could give me perhaps a chronology of things that I should try to do when starting to fly,

This site, Phantom Pilots, is replete with (conservatively) tens of thousands of tips... however, that would require searching and reading.

Here's a short chronology for you:

• Download and read the Owner's Manual for your model
• Set up and turn everything on inside, without props, so you can:
• Thoroughly familiarize yourself with the DJI Go app - every nook and cranny of every menu
• Read the owner's manual again - I printed it and made a notebook
• Develop and print a thorough pre-flight checklist, add to notebook
• Start practicing flying in a large open field if possible, take your time, go slow, pay attention
• While practice flying, shoot video with camera in full auto mode
• Spend a lot of time reviewing your videos on a good computer.
• Develop procedures to improve your videos

This is a short list, for sure not complete.

The guy whose YouTube vids you admire didn't learn everything in a week, you won't either.

 

[Daruman]

Depth of field is no concern with the lens on the Phantom's camera.
You will have more depth of field than you need at any aperture you use.

He would find he also got good results if he tried other aperture settings as well.
It's not as if f5.6 is good and other settings aren't.
Here's a nice shot taken at f2.8 to show how good the lens is at full open.
Look at it full screen on a large monitor.
Shipping 2018 - Above & Beyond Photography
There is no reason to stick to just one aperture.

It was good advice.
Using automatic settings doesn't mean you won't understand what you are doing.
If you don't have the photographic experience, it's very easy to make a mess of things by trying to use manual settings.
Since you are also needing to learn to fly safely, it would be a good idea to use auto settings while you learn to use the camera and to fly.

Well. my Idea was that I had great concern about getting knowledge of camera settings and knowing what I want since the result is what drove me into this to begin with. But with my first actual filming will be in 2 weeks from now. Till then all my test flights have focus on flying and getting to know the feel of it.
Anyway. If there are any great tips you have when it comes to flying let me know. I learned a great deal already. Things like flying backwards (reasonably fast) does not have the rotors in your camera sight, using the P modus to launch and land again. Always having a high enough value in the "return to home" flight settings. The value needs to be higher than anything around you. And so on. If there are any great tips you have. Let me know. Thanks

PS. Great photo's, and thanks. I didn't know that any aperture would give enough depht of field with the drone camera.
Do you by chance have any aerials with certain apertures of lets say coastlines, or forests, mountains,landscapes?

 

[Daruman]

This site, Phantom Pilots, is replete with (conservatively) tens of thousands of tips... however, that would require searching and reading.

Here's a short chronology for you:

• Download and read the Owner's Manual for your model
• Set up and turn everything on inside, without props, so you can:
• Thoroughly familiarize yourself with the DJI Go app - every nook and cranny of every menu
• Read the owner's manual again - I printed it and made a notebook
• Develop and print a thorough pre-flight checklist, add to notebook
• Start practicing flying in a large open field if possible, take your time, go slow, pay attention
• While practice flying, shoot video with camera in full auto mode
• Spend a lot of time reviewing your videos on a good computer.
• Develop procedures to improve your videos

This is a short list, for sure not complete.

The guy whose YouTube vids you admire didn't learn everything in a week, you won't either.

Thanks for your time and points you made. I take note on everything

 

[Meta4]

I didn't know that any aperture would give enough depth of field with the drone camera.
Do you by chance have any aerials with certain apertures of lets say coastlines, or forests, mountains,landscapes?

Forget about depth of field as it's irrelevant in drone photography with a Phantom.
You will always have your subject far enough away from the camera that it won't make any difference.

Here are some numbers to show what the actual effect is:
At f2.8 and focused at 50 feet - everything from 12ft to infinity is in focus
At f5.6 and focused at 50 feet - everything from 6ft to infinity is in focus
At f11 and focused at 50 feet - everything from 3ft to infinity is in focus

Do you by chance have any aerials with certain apertures of lets say coastlines, or forests, mountains,landscapes?

There are plenty of shots of all of those on my photo website.
Any taken since December 2016 were with the P4 pro.

 

[Daruman]

Forget about depth of field as it's irrelevant in drone photography with a Phantom.
You will always have your subject far enough away from the camera that it won't make any difference.

Here are some numbers to show what the actual effect is:
At f2.8 and focused at 50 feet - everything from 12ft to infinity is in focus
At f5.6 and focused at 50 feet - everything from 6ft to infinity is in focus
At f11 and focused at 50 feet - everything from 3ft to infinity is in focus

There are plenty of shots of all of those on my photo website.
Any taken since December 2016 were with the P4 pro.

Wow interesting info right there. And how do you focus? Tapping on the screen? (roughly to a distance of 50 m? as in your example) or do you simply let the drone auto focus?
So the fx.x is really only more useful for more close up shots or with objects fairly close, altough as you say forget about the depth of field because now in your explaination I understand why. We do mostly far away aerial filming/photographing.
In my film footages my goal will mostly be landscapes of mountains and so on from fairly high up. So I would then not see any effect based on your explaination.

Regarding your land photo's with the mountains and valley's. Where is this made? And I see also some panorama shots. Is the drone able to make those? or did you just rotate around an shot every second or so.


Regarding flying. Right now there is a wind speed of beaufort 3 which is 12-19 km/h as Im thinking of having my first flight today. I saw a video where drone tests where done at different wind speeds. The maximum was windspeed 50 or little bit more, but it was already fairly shaky.
Below what windspeeds would you recommend flying? As you made enough aerial photographies to know what the P4P can handle. Also. My weather report says its beaufort 3. But Im not certain in which context this is measured. Is this on the ground, and is this different lets say100 meters higher? To take note: in my area where I live everything is flat.