Pros and cons Phantom vs. Phantom 2

[Miika]

I lost my Phantom v1 with GoPro 3 attached. Pilot error and failure to return in RTH.

Now I'm going to buy a new one and I have two choices. Phantom or Phantom 2


Phantom v1 with Zenmuse Gimbal including 4 batteries = 699€
I'm assuming that this is with Naza V1 not with V2... I have seen Phantom v1.1.1 that has Naza V2!
Pros of buying Phantom v1
-I already have 3 LiPo batteries for it, and would get 4 more.
-Buying new batteries is relatively cheap (although I dont think I would need any)

Cons
-I'm assuming that the Phantom I'm buying has Naza V1, which is a downside. What I've heard V2 has had much less fly-aways.


Phantom 2 with Zenmuse gimbal including 1 battery = 799€
Pros of buying Phantom 2
-Naza V2, if anything is true this should be better than V1.
-Longer battery life (from 8 minutes V1 2200mAh up to 20 minutes 5200mAh)


Cons
-New battery is expensive... 150€ per battery.
-I can only buy/use DJI batteries


What would you do? I'm pretty sure I'll go with Phantom V1 with Zenmuse as its 100€ cheaper and I dont find having one 5200mAh battery instead of 7x 2200mAh a better deal.

 

[C-Mac13]

... failure to return in RTH.

... What I've heard V2 has had much less fly-aways.

I think these answered your question.

I'm by far an expert but if it were me I would be getting the P2.

 

[havasuphoto]

I would buy a Phantom 1. naza V1, V2, who cares-it was firmware upgrade 4.02 that eliminated the problems with fly away's.
now, when the aircraft doesn't receive a signal from the remote for more then 3? or so seconds, it immediately enters Fail Safe, stops, maintains altitude(or climbs to 20 meters-whichever is higher), and returns home.

I've "tested" this countless at times on my Phantom 1.2(just before 1.1.1). Always remember-you must verify that the correct home location has been "locked" before take off(look for the rapidly flashing green light).
I've got about 20 hours total flight time on my aircraft(roughly 200 flights), and never had any issues, whatsoever.

With the Phantom 2-you are stuck with buying DJI batteries forever!! The "chip" in the batteries is hardwired into the battery, and a code has to be received by Naza from the battery, before it will ever fly. It may someday be "cracked'...but, DJI could always just do a firmware upgrade to Naza-and the crack would be un-done.

Flight time can be an issue for the Phantom 1. But, you can upgrade to the 9" Vision props-this will increase your flight time over stock-by at least 2 minutes. Also, if you upgrade your stock batteries(2200mah) to something like the Maddog 2800 mah, you can increase your flight time, by another 2+ minutes. Get the Big Battery Door-and thank me later.

I have a heavy aircraft-with iOSD, PMU2, Zen, GP3, VTX, and it all weighs in at around 1270 grams. I can get 9 minutes flight time with the Vision props, and a 2800mah battery.
Frankly, after that, I would be bored. I've flown my aircraft out to 1.1km, and still had video, and flight time to return.

Save your money and go back with the Phantom 1. Why yours flew away....I dunno-that hasn't been explained. But hopefully you learned something from it.
The only difference I see between all this Naza V1 and V2 is the color of the sticker or the box itself. Everyone is running Firmware 4.02....and, there are still reports of fly-aways from Phantom 2 pilots....
But, like I said-over 200 flights, and mine's still here. I sometimes flip "fail safe", just to make the aircraft fly home, so I can sit there wearing my goggles or looking through my monitor, and relax. It's a very good auto-pilot.

 

[Miika]

If I buy the Phantom V1, I will have seven 2200 mAh DJI batteries, so upgrading to 2800 wouldnt be necessary. Although having even the two minutes more of flight time would be great.

I used to have simple rules to make sure nothing happens to my Phantom. One of the rules was never to fly away from line of sight. I did not have tracking device on my phantom or video transmitter. Some months ago I was spending time in a remote location flying with the Phantom. That time I decided to fly a long distance, out from the line of sight. My idea was that I would fly into one direction and then keep flying for a brief moment and then pull the control stick back so my Phantom would fly back. I did that and the sound of the Phantom started coming closer and closer, but it was nowhere to be seen. At this point I started to worry and wonder where in the world could it be. The sound of the Phantom was coming closer but I couldnt see it. And I had a lot of open area in all of the directions. Although I had flown my Phantom above a forest (which was the last location where I saw it). Then I decided to turn RTH on and I could hear the Phantom turning... then I heard it once again coming closer but this time the sound started moving into wrong direction/or it came from a wrong direction. Not from the direction I had flown the Phantom but more from the right. I stopped the RTH and made my Phantom go higher and engaged RTH again. This time the sound of Phantom started to disappear and it didnt do anything even when I tried to stop RTH once again.... After this it was nowhere to be found. Four different people looked for it for hours. The location is so remote that I dont believe that anyone has found my Phantom. So once I get my new Phantom I'm going to use to find my old. I'm hoping the GoPro 3+ Black with the protective casing is still working. The Phantom is probably far beyond repair, but the GoPro and the footage (that reveals what happened) is still there.

 

[havasuphoto]

If you're going with the Zen, get the video Transmitter, iOSD mini, and a receiver.
Question: when you pulled back on the stick-why didn't you first turn on "home lock"?? That way, no matter which way the Phantom was pointing, it would have returned home.
Also, once you initiate Fail Safe-leave it alone. But-you must make sure you are higher, than the highest obstacle that the aircraft could encounter on it's return.
It's possible, that in all the flip switching you could have saved a different location as home point-and it flew to that, hit a tree, and fell to it's death.
Sound in the forest is a strange thing.....it can sound like the aircraft is in one direction-but if you have video with telemetry, you could know exactly where the aircraft was, how far away, it's azimuth from the take off point, and altitude above the take off point.

Always have an "escape plan", if things go wrong. Mine is just to flip the IOC to "home lock', and pull the stick back, and wait. But, I also have on-board video, so I can see where it is. Also, once Fail Safe(RTH) is initiated, leave it alone, until the aircraft is over head, or you have a solid visual. Once it returns, it will descend to 60 feet(assuming it was higher when FS was initiated)and wait about 10 or 15 seconds. If you do nothing, it descends to 15 feet, and waits again for you to do something. If you do nothing, it will land itself, usually within a few feet of the take-off point.

And, when flying in the forest-realize your range for both the transmitter and the video signal will be severally impacted by the tall tree's. You won't get more than a 100 meters horizontally before the remote signal is lost, if that.
In firmware 4.02-when that happens, the aircraft stops and hovers, then smoothly turns 180 degree's and flies back home at around 10m/sec. I've lost RC signal dozens of times-and it always does the exact same thing.

Learn about IOC....and, spend an extra couple hundred bucks on video and telemetry(iOSD Mini). IF you want to fly in the forest-hike to a hill, above the forest, and fly that way. Or, just go straight up, and come straight down(descend very slowly to avoid entering your own down wash).

 

[Miika]

If I remember right I had HomeLock on when I flied with it and I flew over the trees (10 meters above).

Before this happened I actually tested Phantoms RTH by taking off immediately (not letting it to save RTH location) and even when I did this it returned to a location that was on its path (I guess it was the point when it locked the home position during the flight). I tested taking off before saving the home location to find out what would happen if you wouldnt give your Phantom enough time before taking off.

What do you think about buying a Garmin GTU gps tracker? This would help to locate the Phantom in any possible scenario. Having a video transmitter and loosing the signal could end up in a disaster, so GTU would help me to locate the Phantom. Although the added weight of GTU isnt too good.

I'm planning to buy things in the following order:
1. Phantom, Zenmuse & GoPro 3+ Black
2. Garmin GTU, or any other tracking device. Although GTU would be the best, as it send the location via GMS.
3. Videolink
4. iOSD

I might go with the steps 1 and 2 tomorrow, but my budget is bit tight as I lost 1300€ with my lost Phantom and GoPro.

 

[havasuphoto]

If I remember right I had HomeLock on when I flied with it and I flew over the trees (10 meters above).

Before this happened I actually tested Phantoms RTH by taking off immediately (not letting it to save RTH location) and even when I did this it returned to a location that was on its path (I guess it was the point when it locked the home position during the flight). I tested taking off before saving the home location to find out what would happen if you wouldnt give your Phantom enough time before taking off.

What do you think about buying a Garmin GTU gps tracker? This would help to locate the Phantom in any possible scenario. Having a video transmitter and loosing the signal could end up in a disaster, so GTU would help me to locate the Phantom. Although the added weight of GTU isnt too good.

I'm planning to buy things in the following order:
1. Phantom, Zenmuse & GoPro 3+ Black
2. Garmin GTU, or any other tracking device. Although GTU would be the best, as it send the location via GMS.
3. Videolink
4. iOSD

I might go with the steps 1 and 2 tomorrow, but my budget is bit tight as I lost 1300€ with my lost Phantom and GoPro.

I wouldn't buy the tracker......
Once you have video and the iOSD, you will always know where, and at what altitude your Phantom is. If/when you lose video signal, just flip to "home lock", pull back, and wait for the video to return.

I get that your in Finland....lots of Forests. Just remember that Altitude is your friend. I regularly fly at beyond visual reference, and usually at around 100 meters in height, and 1000 meters away-and still have video and remote control.
You just need to be smart about where you fly, and at what altitudes.

 

[ElGuano]

Just a few points:

1. There's been nothing documented that has changed with 4.02 wrt FlyAways. No new protection modes, no behavioral changes. The reason for 4.02 is to fix a bug with the horizontal ringfence feature in 4.0, which probably doesn't meet the definition of a true flyaway (but could still cause you to lose your quad).

2. There is no difference between the Naza-M V1 and the V2 at all, as it comes on the 1.1.1. You could get an orange and black, or a red and white, but they'll both be V2s internally. So that's a win.

3. The phantom 2's Naza is based on a v2 but is specific to the phantom 2--you can't use it on another multi unless you also carry over the p2 smart battery and p2 main board.

The P2 is a great integrated package. It's ready to fly and made for the h3-2d gimbal with OSD and fpv, and it's got canbus and e300 propulsion built in. The p1 is still the more flexible modding platform, but you will spend more money to get it to the level of a p2. But that also means you can exceed it, or move the parts to a new quad.

 

[Miika]

Yeah I'm from Finland.

Reasons to get Garmin:
-If an actual non-pilot error caused fly-away happens (Phantom goes crazy for what ever reason) you can still locate your Phantom
-If HomeLock does not work (bad GPS, dont know if it needs GPS) your trick to get videofeed back might not work. You could still locate your Phantom.
-If something strange happens that cuts your videofeed and it wont come back even when flying back... you can still locate your Phantom, if you cant get back with it safely.

The thing is that if your video feed goes down and your Phantom wont return (for what ever reason). You cant be sure that the case number 1 (Phantom going crazy) didnt happen. So you dont know where to look. And once you've tried to find the Phantom from the most obvious location(s) and still wont find it, you dont know where to look anymore.

If you always fly having the Phantom in the line of sight, the only "enemy" is the possibility of Phantom going crazy. Which would be the case when Garmin would be needed.

The obvious con of having Garmin is the added weight. That is the only reason why I'm not so sure if I'm going to buy it. Other option is to buy Bluetooth "based" location device. Those are lot cheaper and weight less. And the range is about 50 meters or so. Finding a Phantom even with bt locator would be lot easier than what it was without anything.

 

[Miika]

Just a few points:

1. There's been nothing documented that has changed with 4.02 wrt FlyAways. No new protection modes, no behavioral changes. The reason for 4.02 is to fix a bug with the horizontal ringfence feature in 4.0, which probably doesn't meet the definition of a true flyaway (but could still cause you to lose your quad).

2. There is no difference between the Naza-M V1 and the V2 at all, as it comes on the 1.1.1. You could get an orange and black, or a red and white, but they'll both be V2s internally. So that's a win.

3. The phantom 2's Naza is based on a v2 but is specific to the phantom 2--you can't use it on another multi unless you also carry over the p2 smart battery and p2 main board.

The P2 is a great integrated package. It's ready to fly and made for the h3-2d gimbal with OSD and fpv, and it's got canbus and e300 propulsion built in. The p1 is still the more flexible modding platform, but you will spend more money to get it to the level of a p2. But that also means you can exceed it, or move the parts to a new quad.

What do I need to get P2 with Zenmuse to have a videofeed (I'm guessing it does not have a video transmitter, only OSD)? So if I'm buying P2 I dont need to buy iOSD anymore and any videotransmitter would get the p2:s OSD working? And what is canbus and e300?

Thanks for all the answers! These will help to tomorrow as I'm going to buy a new Phantom.

 

[ElGuano]

Just a few points:

1. There's been nothing documented that has changed with 4.02 wrt FlyAways. No new protection modes, no behavioral changes. The reason for 4.02 is to fix a bug with the horizontal ringfence feature in 4.0, which probably doesn't meet the definition of a true flyaway (but could still cause you to lose your quad).

2. There is no difference between the Naza-M V1 and the V2 at all, as it comes on the 1.1.1. You could get an orange and black, or a red and white, but they'll both be V2s internally. So that's a win.

3. The phantom 2's Naza is based on a v2 but is specific to the phantom 2--you can't use it on another multi unless you also carry over the p2 smart battery and p2 main board.

The P2 is a great integrated package. It's ready to fly and made for the h3-2d gimbal with OSD and fpv, and it's got canbus and e300 propulsion built in. The p1 is still the more flexible modding platform, but you will spend more money to get it to the level of a p2. But that also means you can exceed it, or move the parts to a new quad.

What do I need to get P2 with Zenmuse to have a videofeed (I'm guessing it does not have a video transmitter, only OSD)? So if I'm buying P2 I dont need to buy iOSD anymore and any videotransmitter would get the p2:s OSD working? And what is canbus and e300?

Thanks for all the answers! These will help to tomorrow as I'm going to buy a new Phantom.

For a P2, you need to buy a GoPro camera, the iosd mini or other OSD of your choice, AVL58 or video transmitter/receiver of your choice, and a monitor/goggles. Canbus is the communications protocol for the p2's battery, GPS and for the iosd. Sorry to say you do need the discrete OSD part.

For the p1, if you go with iosd, you will need a can bus upgrade, either with the pmu-v2 or an upgraded main board plus some soldering. You'll also still need the GoPro and video transmitter/receiver and monitor/goggles.

 

[Miika]

Does the canbus have anything to do with the battery level that you can see if you have OSD?

 

[OI Photography]

Does the canbus have anything to do with the battery level that you can see if you have OSD?

Canbus is the port used to connect the OSD to the Phantom, for all data it displays.

 

[havasuphoto]

Does the canbus have anything to do with the battery level that you can see if you have OSD?

No...but you see it on the OSD.
I'll let El G answer the rest of your questions; he's a whole lot smarter than me, and knows both aircraft very well.

 

[ElGuano]

In a way...

You need the p2 battery and iosd mini to see battery percentage, and the p2 and iosd mini both communicate via canbus.

Any OSD including the iosd mini can show you pure battery voltage, so you don't technically need canbus for that. But if you use the iosd mini, it requires canbus to operate anyways so you'll need it. Your zenmuse already requires canbus, so on a p1 you need to have it one way or the other (pmu or upgrade board). Just a matter of how easy it is to access it (requires soldering on the upgrade board, or a lot of extra weight with the pmu).

 

[ElGuano]

Does the canbus have anything to do with the battery level that you can see if you have OSD?

No...but you see it on the OSD.
I'll let El G answer the rest of your questions; he's a whole lot more ocd than me, and knows both aircraft very well.

Fixed that for you

 

[havasuphoto]

In a way...

You need the p2 battery and iosd mini to see battery percentage, and the p2 and iosd mini both communicate via canbus.

Any OSD including the iosd mini can show you pure battery voltage, so you don't technically need canbus for that. But if you use the iosd mini, it requires canbus to operate so you'll need it for that. Since you have a zenmuse, you'll require canbus on your p1 to operate one way or the other (pmu or upgrade board). Just a matter of how easy it is to access it.

Good point. You will need to order either the PMU2, or the upgrade board, to use the Zen and the iOSD mini.

 

[OI Photography]

I think the P1 Miika is looking at already has the Zenmuse on it (and therefore at least the upgrade board)

 

[havasuphoto]

I think the P1 Miika is looking at already has the Zenmuse on it (and therefore at least the upgrade board)

Is he looking at a used unit??
that's what I would do
IF, mine ever flies away, or decides to go swimming....I'll only buy used, if I ever buy another. really not happy at all with the Zen....but that's a whole other story

Hey!!! Post number 600!!!!! Gawd...I gotta stop posting so much :roll: