Phantom 4A/P camera vs. Mavic 2 Pro camera...

[GadgetGuy]

Sorry man but your not getting the best video results there high shutter speeds and without a ND filter. The high shutter speed flickering, which I believe you're calling studdering, remains apparent. If that works for you, all good. But you're not getting away with just aperture and high shutter speeds to dial in exposure. It's much better to have the right ND filter on to allow for the proper shutter speed and a better aperture of around 5.6 or so, rather than closing it down all the way. Then if you want a bit less motion blur you can raise the shutter speed a little higher than just double the frame rate. Nothing is a hard and fast rule but you'll only stand to gain flexibility in exposure settings by using an ND filter. Without one, all your exposure settings have to be dialed in to make up for the fact that you're not using an ND filter. And gladly, the mp2 has filters for the lens. It's well advised to use them.

ND filter use for video requires no change in the direction of flying, and no change in the lighting during flight. It's a compromise. Proper use will require landing and swapping ND filters for every different angle, and change in lighting. Cloudy days will be your nemesis, as it can go from full sun to overcast in seconds during a flight.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I don't use 4160x2160 I use the UHD version of 3840x2160 at 30fps. But, in either case, the video glitching is do to marginal image processor capabilities. The glitching happens with high end Sandisk of Samsung uSD cards so I don't think its the cards.


Brian

I agree with both of your conclusions. However, on all my aircraft, switching to 3840x2160 at 60fps fixed the video glitches I was experiencing at 4160x2160 at 60fps. The gimbal on the P4P is also not as robust as the gimbal on the P4 in high wind, and is prone to flipping. They pushed the envelope on the P4P, and it helps to dial back the speed and the processing overhead for best results.

 

[shockwave199]

Lol, what and what?! Whatever guys, lol. Do what makes it right for you.

 

[roosta]

P4P still shoots 4K60, while all Mavics, old and new, still cap at 4K30, if thats important to you...Probably not the OP who only cares more for still photography...probably a good point for the videographers out there.

RoOSTA

 

[FlyingUser]

Here’s the comparison. I am primarily a stills photographer with some video work on the side, so IQ is paramount for me. I was thinking of upgrading to the P4P v2 (recently sold my P4P). The mechanical shutter on the Phantom is important for my use. On the other hand, the Mavic has a slightly wider temperature tolerance which could make a difference in colder weather operation.

I don't know what profit could you gain in IQ from the v2 over the original P4 Pro... The original has the same camera, same mechanical shutter, same codec. The next step up in IQ is the inspire.

Regarding cold temperatures: p4p's are flown in winter too, and Mavics have exactly the same concern: battery characteristics.

 

[Meta4]

"DJI has an ownership interest in Hasselblad" is more accurate. DJI is still not the majority owner of Hasselblad.

It's been widely reported that DJI took a majority interest.
Why did DJI acquire Hasselblad? Think Volvo

 

[GadgetGuy]

It's been widely reported that DJI took a majority interest.
Why did DJI acquire Hasselblad? Think Volvo

My bad. Thanks for the correction. Original post edited. DJI does now own a majority interest, which gives it control over Hasselblad. "DJI is likely to support Hasselblad with financial backing, engineering resources, and manufacturing expertise." It's a great synergy, that can only benefit those of us interested optimizing the photographic capability of our DJI drones.

 

[Paul2660]

It was DJI dollars that got Hasselblad back in the black, with the X1D camera, which has done very well for the company.

I seriously doubt that Hasselblad added anything to the camera/ lens of the Mavic Pro2. They have have helped out on the processing which can be a great asset for both raw and jpg and video as Hasselblad is well known for great color.

The lens I feel is more likely very similar to the lens in the P4, but time will tell for sure.

The sensor is still odds on the same Sony 1" 20MP that is in the P4 Pro.

Paul C

 

[GadgetGuy]

It was DJI dollars that got Hasselblad back in the black, with the X1D camera, which has done very well for the company.

I seriously doubt that Hasselblad added anything to the camera/ lens of the Mavic Pro2. They have have helped out on the processing which can be a great asset for both raw and jpg and video as Hasselblad is well known for great color.

The lens I feel is more likely very similar to the lens in the P4, but time will tell for sure.

The sensor is still odds on the same Sony 1" 20MP that is in the P4 Pro.

Paul C

It's a symbiotic partnership that has great promise for the future of DJI cameras and lenses. Certainly better than a partnership with GoPro, which DJI could have entertained, before deciding to make their own better cameras, back when GoPros were add ons, bought separately the DJI aerial platform!

 

[RPP]

Ming Thein has reviewed the Mavic 2 Pro. His conclusion is that its camera and imaging pipeline is a touch better than the P4P. I asked him about the lack of the mechanical shutter. He says it is not an issue. See -

Drone diaries: the 2018 DJI Mavic 2 Pro review

 

[Alvaro L]

I doubt Hasselblad manufactures their own sensors, Mavic 2 Pro is probably using the same 1" sensor DJI is using in existing models, either the Sony one used in P4P/A or a Panasonic one already used in Zenmuses. Only a handful of companies are manufacturing digital sensors. Another question is how Hasselblad process the sensor information and the chip used to do that.

 

[With The Birds]

I doubt Hasselblad manufactures their own sensors, Mavic 2 Pro is probably using the same 1" sensor DJI is using in existing models, either the Sony one used in P4P/A or a Panasonic one already used in Zenmuses. Only a handful of companies are manufacturing digital sensors. Another question is how Hasselblad process the sensor information and the chip used to do that.

It’s well known that Hasselblad uses Sony sensors, and several sources have confirmed it’s the Sony 1” in the M2P.... itvhas also been confirmed that Hasselblad developed the colour profile- the SOC orobabky isn’t critical.

 

[FlyingUser]

Ming Thein has reviewed the Mavic 2 Pro. His conclusion is that its camera and imagine pipeline is a touch better than the P4P. I asked him about the lack of the mechanical shutter. He says it is not an issue. See -

Drone diaries: the 2018 DJI Mavic 2 Pro review

I can truly believe that. First of, the mavic has a 28mm equivalent lens, the p4p 24mm equivalent. According to my limited optical knowledge, longer lenses are easier to produce in better quality. Thus the optics might have a slight edge here. OTOH, the jpeg engine might have got an upgrade too.

 

[Chrislaf]

Is there any DJI drone that can't?

The Spark. The gimbal only tilts down to -85 degrees.

 

[Outta Control]

I wouldn’t apply too much weighting to the Hasselblad lens issue in your decision making. I doubt Hasselblad had much design input into the lens. As you might know the classic Hasselblad lenses were Zeiss, designs so good the best continued in production for over 50 years (removing lead from the elements employed in some revised designs actually reduced their performance). Despite the marketing hype reality probably is the current Hasselblad branded offering is comparable to a high end security camera or compact camera offering with nicely assembled polycarbonate elements.

AFAIK Hasselblad doesn't make lenses. They make camera bodies and medium format sensors. When DJI bought HB, due to their financial situation, everyone knew what was about to happen.

Problem is, HB is famous for their medium/large format, which could go into question on the quality of the sensor in the M2P.

Plus as any pro photographer should know is that it is all about the quality of the lenses that makes a picture pop. I would push to even say that if DJI bought or used a Zeiss len on the Mavic Pro it would produce a much better image quality than what the M2P’s HB sensor could ever make.

For a proof of concept, look at the P4P, how many lens elements does it have and see the results from it, along with the mechanical shutter? The P4P became the gold standard not only in still image but also in mapping. Now imaging those same lenses been replaced with either a Zeiss or Canon L?

*drop the mic*

 

[With The Birds]

AFAIK Hasselblad doesn't make lenses. They make camera bodies and medium format sensors. When DJI bought HB, due to their financial situation, everyone knew what was about to happen.

Problem is, HB is famous for their medium/large format, which could go into question on the quality of the sensor in the M2P.

Plus as any pro photographer should know is that it is all about the quality of the lenses that makes a picture pop. I would push to even say that if DJI bought or used a Zeiss len on the Mavic Pro it would produce a much better image quality than what the M2P’s HB sensor could ever make.

For a proof of concept, look at the P4P, how many lens elements does it have and see the results from it, along with the mechanical shutter? The P4P became the gold standard not only in still image but also in mapping. Now imaging those same lenses been replaced with either a Zeiss or Canon L?

*drop the mic*

Hasselblad never made sensors, it’s well known they have always sourced from Sony. It is no different for the Mavic.

Good glass is important. A lot of what you pay for canon L is in the build quality, I have a heap of L lenses- Leica pulls the pants down on all of them in outright image quality regardless of what the laboratory measurements say.

As long as the lens doesn’t have any significant field defects and is sharp and well illuminated to the frame edges in the M2 I will be happy. At the end of the day it’s almost certainly on par with a glorified good quality security camera lens.

I don’t agree the lens is the most important component. Sensors and the imaging engine make a significant contribution also. The biggest factor is the operator. I have seen some horrid images created with expensive kit- usually the owners were pixel keepers and brand snobs. In these times inderstanding what can be some in post is critical also, especially knowing when to resist over tweaking and ending up with something looking like radioactive cat vomit.

 

[WetDog]

Hasselblad never made sensors, it’s well known they have always sourced from Sony. It is no different for the Mavic.

Good glass is important. A lot of what you pay for canon L is in the build quality, I have a heap of L lenses- Leica pulls the pants down on all of them in outright image quality regardless of what the laboratory measurements say.

As long as the lens doesn’t have any significant field defects and is sharp and well illuminated to the frame edges in the M2 I will be happy. At the end of the day it’s almost certainly on par with a glorified good quality security camera lens.

I don’t agree the lens is the most important component. Sensors and the imaging engine make a significant contribution also. The biggest factor is the operator. I have seen some horrid images created with expensive kit- usually the owners were pixel keepers and brand snobs. In these times inderstanding what can be some in post is critical also, especially knowing when to resist over tweaking and ending up with something looking like radioactive cat vomit.

Well, yes, it's the operator. We've all seen great stuff done on cell phones and crap on uber expensive pro gear.

Aside from that (which means, for us, get out and fly), it is the *ENTIRE CHAIN* from lens to card. Mess up one thing (use a crap card for example) and your 150 mbs video flow goes down the tube.

Pretty much everybody except Canon uses Sony sensors until you get to the really pro gear. Some companies get to tweak the sensor (Nikon), others probably don't. Unclear where DJI / Hassy sits. The support electronics are also hugely important. Now, Hasselblad supposedly built the support electronics for the XL-1. If that is true, or even if they were closely involved in specifications, that means that Hasselblad has access to some serious technical support in this venue. Again, it's not clear where DJI itself sits. It appears that the P3 / P4 electronics are pretty standard chips. Is that bad? I would posit that actually what we have is awfully good for around $1500. Unbelievably good if you look back a couple of years.

But moving on. Will DJI use this expertise in their consumer offerings or will they push it towards the Inspire and beyond crowd? I'm going to flat out guess that for now, the latter is true - that is really where DJI has pretty stiff competition. Will stuff trickle down? Absolutely. *Especially* electronics.

Lenses may be different. The weeny little things we stare at are barely lenses to the rest of the imaging universe. Giggles and jokes. Something to be found in a cereal box. Can Hasselblad (or ZIess) design one of these? Sure. But so can everyone else. Will high end glass elements make a difference? Perhaps. Optical microscope objectives are even smaller, tend to be very complex and are very expensive. Who makes these? Zeiss and Nikon (and a couple of others). So designing them shouldn't be a challenge. Making them somewhat affordable will be.

May you live in interesting times....

 

[With The Birds]

Well, yes, it's the operator. We've all seen great stuff done on cell phones and crap on uber expensive pro gear.

Aside from that (which means, for us, get out and fly), it is the *ENTIRE CHAIN* from lens to card. Mess up one thing (use a crap card for example) and your 150 mbs video flow goes down the tube.

Pretty much everybody except Canon uses Sony sensors until you get to the really pro gear. Some companies get to tweak the sensor (Nikon), others probably don't. Unclear where DJI / Hassy sits. The support electronics are also hugely important. Now, Hasselblad supposedly built the support electronics for the XL-1. If that is true, or even if they were closely involved in specifications, that means that Hasselblad has access to some serious technical support in this venue. Again, it's not clear where DJI itself sits. It appears that the P3 / P4 electronics are pretty standard chips. Is that bad? I would posit that actually what we have is awfully good for around $1500. Unbelievably good if you look back a couple of years.

But moving on. Will DJI use this expertise in their consumer offerings or will they push it towards the Inspire and beyond crowd? I'm going to flat out guess that for now, the latter is true - that is really where DJI has pretty stiff competition. Will stuff trickle down? Absolutely. *Especially* electronics.

Lenses may be different. The weeny little things we stare at are barely lenses to the rest of the imaging universe. Giggles and jokes. Something to be found in a cereal box. Can Hasselblad (or ZIess) design one of these? Sure. But so can everyone else. Will high end glass elements make a difference? Perhaps. Optical microscope objectives are even smaller, tend to be very complex and are very expensive. Who makes these? Zeiss and Nikon (and a couple of others). So designing them shouldn't be a challenge. Making them somewhat affordable will be.

May you live in interesting times....

At least the lenses should be cheaper. A lot less glass/polycarbonate required to illuminate the image circle prescribed by a 1” sensor. And they can be good. I am surprised how good a photo you can wrestle out of the current generation phones- seemingly a lot if that is software trickery.

 

[Raptorman0909]

Saw something today that DJI has listed the earlier versions of the Mavic as well as the P4P/P4P+ and earlier version as 'discontinued' with the speculation that the next Phantom is likely sometime soon -- I've been saying that for a while. I don't know this for sure and what it will be called if it is though the Phantom 5 does seem likely. And, as said earlier, if a Phantom 5 is in the works I'd expect 150Mbps with usable 4K60 in addition to any new sensors and comm link. Hopefully the image processor can handle the datarate and do so with H.265 at the full 4K60 and do so without the video glitches and image tearing I get at 4K30 H.265 with the P4P.

And, as the new Mavic is at $1500USD I'd expect the new Phantom to be more like $1800-$2000USD. If it comes with the above mentioned video improvements and additional sensors and, hopefully, a bit more airtime it would be a great choice for the more serious drone videographers including some pro video and movie types. I suspect the movie industry will still opt for an Inspire or better drones for the bigger budget movies, but for lessor movies and TV the Phantom 5, if its real, could be a great option.


Brian

 

[Dronefriend]

I would like to see that untouched raw (before Adobe Camera Raw touches it) P4P image compared to an identical untouched raw from the new M2P camera. That way we could see if true lens distortion has improved or not.

Remember the guy who used alternative software to dig out the real .DNG as opposed to the one Adobe alters? That's what I'm talking about.

I can do the test myself since I have both a P4P and M2P now but I cannot remember the name of the software.