No Justification for Night Flying Restriction

[Rod Cambridge]

The Night Flying Restriction has nothing to do with Safety. It's all about control and accountability. We should also condemn DJI for rolling over on all these nonsense rules and helping the FAA by the limitations they place within the software. We have all been found guilty before any crime has been committed. This is not a Free Country. Look up the definition of Fascism and decide if we are free or if we are not.

If you want less crime, have less rules.

 

[blackcrusader]

I took this pick today. The issue is that the cameras on the drones are really not up to low light photography unless you are say flying close to the ground where street lighting helps. But then you can't see power lines, bats, owls and other things that can ruin you night adventure.

I've flown around my village at night and taken a few good pictures. But also need to consider the noise drones make.

 

[Monte55]

The Night Flying Restriction has nothing to do with Safety. It's all about control and accountability. We should also condemn DJI for rolling over on all these nonsense rules and helping the FAA by the limitations they place within the software. We have all been found guilty before any crime has been committed. This is not a Free Country. Look up the definition of Fascism and decide if we are free or if we are not.

If you want less crime, have less rules.

I disagree with your statement. Night flying comes with more hazards. Some claim the drone is easier to see at night. That may be true but if you blink what you think is your drone could very well be something else far away. You also have no good view of what's around you like trees, power lines etc. People will most likely not be flying in the desert or forest at night. They will fly in the lights of the city and such. Other than that, I have seen some great videos. To me, it's a greater risk.

 

[Clipper707]

Sorry, but I find blanket statements like these to be ignorant. You have no idea of the conditions other people are flying, at night or otherwise.

• "If you blink, what you think is your drone could very well be something else..." This is a factor of distance. It can and does happen in the daylight, too.
• You have no idea what knowledge an operator has of trees, power lines, etc. An operator may be intimately familiar with an area. Just because it's night time, trees and power lines don't magically appear.
• Desert, forest, or city: safe flying is safe flying and unsafe flying is unsafe flying. There are many visual advantages/disadvantages to flying at night. The darkness itself doesn't make a flight unsafe.

I recently had the opportunity to "fly" the camera on Inspire 1 and Inspire 2 drones at a famous waterfront landmark in San Francisco on a 5am commercial shoot. NOTAMs were filed and everything was done by the book. The Inspires had strobes and navigation (red and green) lights attached.

There was nothing unsafe about these flights. It was actually safer than if we had done it in daylight:

• None of the usual crowds that are there in daylight
• Zero low-altitude air traffic.
• Zero maritime traffic around this landmark also.
• The big quads were much more visible at the same distance at night than they were during the day.

Night flying comes with less hazards in a great many cases. Don't make assumptions.

 

[Jeremy_S]

Without night flying I'd never get photos like these. I'm in the middle of the desert, 60 miles from a gas station, but I've never had a thing pop up telling me not to fly at night. What restrictions are you talking about?

DJI_0008_Fotor by Jeremy Sensing, on Flickr
Night shots of my cryogenics plant by Jeremy Sensing, on Flickr

 

[Deleted member 62848]

Without night flying I'd never get photos like these. I'm in the middle of the desert, 60 miles from a gas station, but I've never had a thing pop up telling me not to fly at night. What restrictions are you talking about?

DJI_0008_Fotor by Jeremy Sensing, on Flickr
Night shots of my cryogenics plant by Jeremy Sensing, on Flickr

Nice pics ,,i only fly dusk here only cause i still wait 4 strobelite from ebay,,comes down to that common sence factor,,if unsure dont fly, i would prefer night flyin where i am ,,less aircraft buzzin by,,i live in flight path of wellington airport,,,,dont need no big bird stikes so very careful,,

 

[Deleted member 62848]

Sorry, but I find blanket statements like these to be ignorant. You have no idea of the conditions other people are flying, at night or otherwise.

• "If you blink, what you think is your drone could very well be something else..." This is a factor of distance. It can and does happen in the daylight, too.
• You have no idea what knowledge an operator has of trees, power lines, etc. An operator may be intimately familiar with an area. Just because it's night time, trees and power lines don't magically appear.
• Desert, forest, or city: safe flying is safe flying and unsafe flying is unsafe flying. There are many visual advantages/disadvantages to flying at night. The darkness itself doesn't make a flight unsafe.

I recently had the opportunity to "fly" the camera on Inspire 1 and Inspire 2 drones at a famous waterfront landmark in San Francisco on a 5am commercial shoot. NOTAMs were filed and everything was done by the book. The Inspires had strobes and navigation (red and green) lights attached.

There was nothing unsafe about these flights. It was actually safer than if we had done it in daylight:

• None of the usual crowds that are there in daylight
• Zero low-altitude air traffic.
• Zero maritime traffic around this landmark also.
• The big quads were much more visible at the same distance at night than they were during the day.

Night flying comes with less hazards in a great many cases. Don't make assumptions.

Like your post its amazing what pops out in diferent times of day or night

 

[Deleted member 62848]

I took this pick today. The issue is that the cameras on the drones are really not up to low light photography unless you are say flying close to the ground where street lighting helps. But then you can't see power lines, bats, owls and other things that can ruin you night adventure.

I've flown around my village at night and taken a few good pictures. But also need to consider the noise drones make.

That a nice pic,,,i take same sorta pics cause my location,,i and probly others gota remember turn up evo on right side of remote,,i still forget

 

[Guzziknight]

As a commercial rotorcraft pilot who's flown hundreds of hours at night, I can tell you it's very different. I flew a police helicopter in Atlanta for 8 years. We flew much lower than any GA pilot, sometimes as low as 100 feet AGL. Even after getting signed off as a PIC, I still had to fly with an experienced pilot at night for a while because it's more difficult. It can be done safely, but it takes experience to really get comfortable with it. Distances are much harder to judge at night, and the horizon can just disappear!

Now, some of that has no bearing on UAS flight, but it is good to know. You really have to know the area you're flying in, and know the obstacles.

Having said that, I agree that the rules for night flying need to be relaxed. It can be done safely, and should be allowed.

But, can you blame the FAA? When pilots fly their drones into the Space Needle, or at 1500 feet, at night, and almost hit a police helo...twice? No surprise the rules are so strict...

Just my opinion as always...

 

[Meta4]

We should also condemn DJI for rolling over on all these nonsense rules and helping the FAA by the limitations they place within the software. We have all been found guilty before any crime has been committed.

Perhaps you could explain what makes you think DJI have rolled over on all these nonsense rules and are helping the FAA by the limitations placed in software.
I can't think of anything that would provide evidence that DJI have done any rolling over or put any limitations to help the FAA.

We have all been found guilty before any crime has been committed. This is not a Free Country. Look up the definition of Fascism and decide if we are free or if we are not.

I looked up the definition but didn't find anything to support your position.
You seem to confuse having rules to assist safe and orderly aviation with a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Does having road rules to govern the safe and orderly road transport also constitute fascism or would you rather no road rules and drive on the highway as you like?

 

[Rod Cambridge]

Perhaps you could explain what makes you think DJI have rolled over on all these nonsense rules and are helping the FAA by the limitations placed in software.
I can't think of anything that would provide evidence that DJI have done any rolling over or put any limitations to help the FAA.

I looked up the definition but didn't find anything to support your position.
You seem to confuse having rules to assist safe and orderly aviation with a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Does having road rules to govern the safe and orderly road transport also constitute fascism or would you rather no road rules and drive on the highway as you like?

 

[Rod Cambridge]

Dear Meta4,

WHAT IS FREEDOM?

Thank you for your comments. Have you flown your Phantom in any other countries? Do you have any experience with laws and procedures elsewhere or how the DJI GO software adjusts itself to it geographic location? I have been lucky enough to fly my P3P all over the world and it does not take long before you see how ridiculously restrictive flying is in the US. (AKA A Free Country) Now DJI is pushing to require all RC Aircraft to transmit a Transponder Code like Private and Commercial Aircraft. Meta4, I am also a licensed private pilot. On the Cessnas I fly, I control whether the Transponder is on or off. We won't have that option with DJI's proposal. And now depending on what country you fly in, the DJI software limits your altitude and distance. I just returned from a trip to New Zealand, do you know what I was told by their FAA. Have fun flying your Phantom and use Common Sense. I was told the same thing in Iceland and the Azores.

To prove this, here is a link to my YouTube Channel.

Rod Cambridge

Let me ask you this Meta4, since you brought up traffic rules. Can you drive 5 miles without breaking some stupid traffic law? Do you never drive faster than 25 MPH when that is the posted speed? There are two kinds of people, Those that like rules, and those that don't. I have found that those people that like rules are generally fearful people that think without rules there will be chaos. I refuse to be limited by the fearful and choose to be free. How many lives have be lost defending Freedom in this country. Would you have them die for nothing? That is the essence of this post, What is Freedom. So tell us moderator, Define Freedom so we can judge your intent.

 

[Rod Cambridge]

As a commercial rotorcraft pilot who's flown hundreds of hours at night, I can tell you it's very different. I flew a police helicopter in Atlanta for 8 years. We flew much lower than any GA pilot, sometimes as low as 100 feet AGL. Even after getting signed off as a PIC, I still had to fly with an experienced pilot at night for a while because it's more difficult. It can be done safely, but it takes experience to really get comfortable with it. Distances are much harder to judge at night, and the horizon can just disappear!

Now, some of that has no bearing on UAS flight, but it is good to know. You really have to know the area you're flying in, and know the obstacles.

Having said that, I agree that the rules for night flying need to be relaxed. It can be done safely, and should be allowed.

But, can you blame the FAA? When pilots fly their drones into the Space Needle, or at 1500 feet, at night, and almost hit a police helo...twice? No surprise the rules are so strict...

Just my opinion as always...

Dear Guzziknight,

Do your examples demand the amount of restrictions we have? Has a single person been hurt? Killed? Do you know falling coconuts kill a dozen people a year? And as to the Police close calls. If the Police just see a drone, they call it a close call. Let me ask you Guzzikight, define Freedom. What does living in a free country mean to you?

 

[CCrew]

If you want less crime, have less rules.

Yeah, I wish they'd drop the bank robbery rules every time I'm short of cash

They made it I live with it. I researched the restrictions before I bought my drone and made an informed decision. Sounds like you didn't?

 

[CCrew]

Thanks for the useless snarky comment. And I bought my drones prior to the FAA's moronic rules. Or maybe you think flying a Phantom miles from an airport is crazy dangerous? Have you ever seen geese fly through a vector airway? Like they do everyday?

Post ridiculous useful drivel then complain you don't like the response. Pot, meet kettle. Sell the drone and move on if your panties are in such a bunch.

I guess you've never seen a goose sucked through a jet turbine. I have. Hell, I've seen a ground crew member sucked through an A-10. Basically a blender unless you get a whole flock of them. A Phantom isn't quite so squishy.

 

[Guzziknight]

Dear Guzziknight,

Do your examples demand the amount of restrictions we have? Has a single person been hurt? Killed? Do you know falling coconuts kill a dozen people a year? And as to the Police close calls. If the Police just see a drone, they call it a close call. Let me ask you Guzzikight, define Freedom. What does living in a free country mean to you?

Falling coconuts aren't "intelligent." Neither are some people. As far as police calling it a close call whenever they just see a drone, sorry- get real. Not the case at all. The incident I referred to had video that showed how close the drone got to the helicopter...twice! Also, try to actually read what I said: I think the night regulations can be eased.

Freedom doesn't mean do whatever you want. It comes with responsibility and living within the rules in a civilized society.

The problem with most drones is that anyone can buy one and fly it without ANY training at all. Those are the people who worry me, not the licensed pilots.

If the FAA wants to classify them as aircraft, which is what they seem to want, then I think everyone who flies one needs to get licensed by the FAA.

What the public thinks of drones and their pilots is a big deal. Regardless of whether they are right, rules will be made if they don't like what we're doing.

 

[Guzziknight]

Have you ever seen geese fly through a vector airway? Like they do everyday?

Last I heard geese are an issue, but if you can tell me, or anyone in the world, how to control them from the ground and keep them away from airports and airplanes, I'm sure you'd make millions.

Drones are controlled by humans, completely different issue.

 

[Meta4]

Do you have any experience with laws and procedures elsewhere or how the DJI GO software adjusts itself to it geographic location?

Yes but I don't see your point.
I still can't see any evidence that DJI have rolled over on all these nonsense rules and are helping the FAA by the limitations placed in software.
You haven't provided anything to show what you mean and if you can see something supporting that, you're seeing things that I don't.

WHAT IS FREEDOM?
There are two kinds of people, Those that like rules, and those that don't. I have found that those people that like rules are generally fearful people that think without rules there will be chaos. I refuse to be limited by the fearful and choose to be free.

And a third category of those that have an irrational fear that causes them to imagine things that don't exist and misread things to fit their paranoia

Now DJI is pushing to require all RC Aircraft to transmit a Transponder Code like Private and Commercial Aircraft.

Really? Have you read what DJI actually said in their white paper or just imagine you know what's in it?
Here is the actual piece if you are interested: Dropbox - DJI Remote Identification Whitepaper 3-22-17.pdf

How many lives have be lost defending Freedom in this country. Would you have them die for nothing? That is the essence of this post, What is Freedom. So tell us moderator, Define Freedom so we can judge your intent.

And paranoia wrapped in patriotism is still paranoia.
I have a pretty good idea what freedom is and I enjoy having it.
I'm not going to bother defining it as anyone that doesn't understand the concept can look it up for themselves.
If you think you need to judge my intent, I've put plenty of words on the forum you can examine.

 

[Crack The Sky]

Thanks for the useless snarky comment. And I bought my drones prior to the FAA's moronic rules. Or maybe you think flying a Phantom miles from an airport is crazy dangerous? Have you ever seen geese fly through a vector airway? Like they do everyday?

They're called Victor Airways, not vector. And why in God's name would you turn a transponder off? As angry & self absorbed as you are, you're dangerous no matter what you are doing. Please do us all a favor and move to New Zealand.

 

[mdowney58]

If you want less crime, have less rules.

I don't think you intended this to be as truthful as it is.
If we have no rules or laws, there could be no crime. (somthing confucius might have thought)