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Need some help/advice very short flight times

Discussion in 'Phantom 1 Help' started by thetac, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. thetac

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    I have a phantom...put the upgraded 900kw tiger motors in...three bladed masterscrew propellors....flies like a rocket ship. Have fat shark fpv on and dual 2500 batteries...can maybe squeak out 5 minutes of flight time. Flies perfect in every way. Tried one battery at a time....would only last a minute each. Tried (2) 2200mha batteries, no better....3-4 minutes. Motors do not seem to be heating up......everything seems in order, i just can't figure out what could be the big draw. Have a micro switch installed to shut off the fpv...so there is no draw there either. Anybody else run into this? Weight is 1300 grams.....i know the max recommended is 1200...but with these motors, props and batteries 1300 should not be a problem....would appreciate everyones thoughts. I have two 5000 mha batteries ordered..but i am thinking something is not right....i hope i didn't waste two hundred bucks on the upgraded motors??!!!
     
  2. UTR

    UTR

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    Three blades increase speed but lower your battery life but it shouldn't be that low. Have you checked the actual battery voltage after each flight? Might be interesting to see what they are.
     
  3. martcerv

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    I think your issue may be the master airscrew props I assume you have the 9x7x3? these are quite a bit heavier and very high pitch so may be a much bigger battery hog. I have ordered some of those but haven't got them yet should do so this week.

    Using the GWS 9050x3 props I get some great flight times and performance and suspect the Master airscrews will not fly as long due to the added weight and pitch.

    My weights single camera is 1150g using mt-2216 kv900 hero3 black, anti jello mount, srp adpater + filter and DJI AVL58 FPV setup. With that Flying fairly quickly gets me 10 minutes with a 2700mah battery and 8 minutes 2200mah battery.

    Here is a single cam flight to show the sort of flying I can do with this setup and still get 10 minutes out of a single 2700ma battery.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShtVGPx09KA[/youtube]

    I also use a heavier 1.3kg dual camera 3d setup that loses about 2 minutes so 8 minutes 2700mah and 6 1/2 minutes 2200mah battery.

    Here is some heavy slower flying dual cameras 9 minutes flight time at 1.3kg 2700mah battery.
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFHL0YtVWxE[/youtube]

    Slower flying gives more time flying faltout in manual mode eats battery quite a lot more but here is pushing quite hard with a single cam 1150g setup in manual mode and 2200mah battery.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqWkaNL0JQM[/youtube]

    By the sound of your flight times it looks like these master airscrews just arent a good mix for the phantom and you may want to go to the cheaper, softer and lighter plastic GWS 9050x3 props. These are very light and provide a good boost over stock 8045 plastic and even better then 9045 carbons I have tried.
     
  4. thetac

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    Martcerv

    You hit the nail right on the head....I wish someone would talk more about this....the master airscrews are premium blades...almost balanced when you get them.....much beefier.....the gws 9050 3 blades props are about 10g each compared to the master airscrew prop 9x7x3 20g. The stock prop is about 6g. I switched back to a set of gws9050s tonight and my flight time went to 9:30...setting my low voltage warning at 10.8 on my DX8...using dual 2500mha batteries. I am assuming you are using a single battery with only 1150g including gimble and camera? My weight (1360g) does include a FPV board, mounted internally, dual battery plates and dual batteries, and fat shark camera,and simonsays landing gear, with 3 bladed props Master airscrews (1320 with gws props), and (I had a tarrot gimble with hero 3 black on but felt i flew too heavy, I bought a flame F550 that i am currently building for the tarrot and hero 3, plan on using the phantom more for fun flying and recording via a ground vcr camera hooked to the fatshark goggles, the images through the fatshark camera are very good). I like the weight of the gws 9050s and the performance, but they seem almost too thin and made cheaply! I too have the mt2216 motors (very smooth). I loved your vids....very nice. Thank you for your response and suggestions. I have two 5000mha batteries coming, probably would be fine with the heavier props....but i really like having the longer flight times!
     
  5. martcerv

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    I am just using single batteries, I have some 2200mah batteries and a couple 2700mah which are a very tight fit but they just squeeze into the battery bay and only weigh 20g more then my 2200's so are a nice boost.

    I dont have a gimbal as yet but am getting one from XPG pretty soon, total weight of the gimbal+hero3 is 238g and performs great. You can power it to the phantom or use a standalone small battery 50-80g depending on capacity to make it completely plug and play. Here is the gimbal http://xproheli.com/products/xproheli-x ... ess-gimbal

    This will end up weighing less then my current hero3 and antijello mount as the mount itself is slightly heavier then the gimbal from XPG.

    The master airscew do look great and I think your the first official phantom flight test with them so you beat me to it. I didnt get the 8 inch ones only the 9 inch but always suspected pitch and weight to be a likely issue and this is confirmed by you so I am sure to get much the same results. I kind of wish I also ordered some master airscrew 8x6x3 props as the high pitch angle combined with the weight are going to be pushing the motors quite hard. The smaller props still have a fairly high pitch angle but should be considerably lighter and may perform similar to the GWS 9050 props. Unfortunately the MA props I can only get from the US and so shipping is slow unless I pay twice as much for shipping as I do for the props.

    Your total weight is getting quite heavy at 1360g so triblades are definitely needed for that but how have you gone with jut a single 2500 battery? This should take about 220g off your total weight. I have looked around or lightweight larger capacity batteries and I will probably get a phantom v2 shell and play with some larger batteries in that later. I will also build another quad not sure if I want a heavy lifter or just a small acrobatic fpv machine as I dont think I will be flying anything more then a gopro or 2.
     
  6. thetac

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    I have not tried with a single 2500...but i do think it is worth the test.....i figured the tradeoff with an extra battery would outweigh the benefit of reduced weight...but maybe not. I lowered my lowvoltage warning on my dx8 to 10.7 (to coincide more with the naza low voltage values)....now i'm getting 10 minutes flight time with both batteries and the gsw props. I wish windsor would post the weights of their props on their website....I might call today and see how much those 8x6 weigh and/or the 7x4 i don't think you would want to go much smaller than that?? What do you think?
     
  7. martcerv

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    I think not much point going smaller then their 8x6 as you may as well use 9x4 dual carbon blades if using any smaller props then that. I have tried 8040 gws triblades but they are way too soft and give no advantages over using regular 9 inch dual blades. They were quite unstable in flight compared to the 9050 but the main reason for going 3 blades is to get more lift then possible with any regular 2 bladed prop on a phantom limited to 9 inch props.

    Efficiency of dual blades will be better then a triblades assuming they both give the same lift and so 9050x3 should be similar to 1040x2 but the duals will be more efficient assuming similar profile and weight.

    Thats where the master airscews are a bit trickier as they are heavier and also higher pitch then most. 8x6x3 would likely be similar to 9x5x2 but with added weight most likely and so these may also be no benefit over using some stiffer and lighter 9x5 dual blades and the reason I didnt order them after trying the gws 8040x3's.

    In my testing the gws 9050 do easily have benefits over 9x5 dual blades and much better then stock 8045 props especially when pushing the weight limits. But any props that dont outperform stock or good 9 inch props are not really worth flying. Sadly all the best quality props just arent quite as good as some of the cheaper softer props on a phantom, I have some crazy stiff and strong graupner clone carbon props but at 8x5 and 9x5 they just dont match the performance of other props I have so I dont fly them.

    One of my favourite properties of the t motors other then extra smoothness is the regular 5mm prop diameter allowing easy testing of different props.

    Battery wise its always a battle between weight and capacity to a point where the extra capacity is being used up just lifting the extra weight.

    I saw some interesting 2800mah 3s batteries I am going to try out. Size is the same as my 2700's and a similar weight so I ordered a couple to try out as I much prefer flying the 2700's then stock 2200.
     
  8. thetac

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    Ok so i called Windsor Master Screw...the 8x6 are 14g the 7x4 are 10g, the 9x7 were 20g. The 7x4 are the same weight as the gws 9050s but i am sure much more stout.....I might buy a set of both 8x6 and 7x4...they are not too much money, $20 for 4 7x4 and $24 for 4 8x6. The gws 8040 x3 would not be a fair comparison i don't think because of size, thickness and pitch, just guessing but i would bet that the 7x4 masterscrews would be about the same gws 8040 x 3.....i'll let you know what i find out.


    I have heard of graupner props but not tested tested them, nor have i tried any carbon props. I have heard they were not worth the money all things considered because the performance gains were not that great. I am happy for the information you have provided......good to know these things. Like you, I am a tester, I like to see and know for myself how things work, and if there are a few of us validating all these tests you can count on the info being accurate! I agree that the GWS 9050 are hands down better than the stock blades...no comparison, especially when getting heavy like mine.

    I found some 2700 mah batteries that weigh 182g each....not bad considering my 2500 mah weigh 182....what does your 2700 weigh? What kind/name of the 2800mah you found?

    Thanks for sharing!!
     
  9. martcerv

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    Good to see another tester, I look forward to seeing your results with the other master airscrews. The thing with this sort of testing is that it may work and it may not I wasn't sure if you were like me and willing to try most things and find out in real world use how it works. Id try all the other MA props but they are a bit of a pain to get to Australia as they can only be found in the US easily and shipping is more then the props or it takes forever. I have also got some wooden Zinger props to try when the Master airscrews come in as I figured I might aswell get some others to combine with the shipping.

    The 2800's I have found and ordered a few of are these http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _30c_.html pretty cheap but I have been happy with the Turnigy 2200 35-75c I have been using.

    Here are the 3 batteries I currently use and the weights are actually quite a bit less then what they are rated at so I hope the Zippy also ends up below the weight its listed at.

    [​IMG]

    Here is the 2700's I use http://www.helipal.com/storm-11-1v-2700 ... -pack.html and these are listed at 217G, I did change the plugs to xt60 but mine are both around 195g. The turnigy batteries are listed at 207g and dimensions of the Storm 2700 is close to max you can fit into the phantom battery bay at 115 X 35 X 26mm, Zippy dimensions are 116x37x27mm so fingers crossed it actually fits those extra couple mm :mrgreen:
     
  10. Driffill

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    I went for a flight on Sunday hiked about an hour and a half (carrying my phantom tub, the girlfriend got the tub with the transmitter in it :) see attached pic, parked car at pin and walked the green line) got to my flying spot, loaded up the first battery (elebar 2200mah cheap on eBay!), the usual preflight checks, switch on power for fpv monitor and VRX, finally get the all good to go (fast green flashes) let it sit for another 10 seconds to be sure, took off and within about 40 seconds, I noticed red flashing!
    [​IMG]

    I slowed the flying and came to a hover, back to usual green flashing (I'm flying in GPS), so got going again and notice red flashing under power! Started doing some slow flying around where I was standing and before I knew it, my hover point had changed and the phantom was coming into land, wether I liked it or not lol. the video is 2 flights in he same spot, I used a nano tech for the second flight
    http://youtu.be/yuz0UOagp6A

    Total flight time was under 2 minutes. I bought two of the eBay elebar 2200mah batteries, I had used the other one before with no problems, so I had expected this one would be ok. I have a lipo capacity checker, but didn't check it until today, funnily enough, it shows 73% . . . Now I'm a little stumped as to what exactly the issue could be? And if I wanna try and fix it . . . I guess I have myself a battery for FPV goggles etc (not that I need one ATM)

    I have the standard phantom battery and a turnigy nano tech 2200mah, my question to the fellow Aussies is, where can I get some decent batteries?? cheap is always helpful, but I'm looking for more capacity and/or batteries to run on my dual battery setup (I wanna run with two of the same batteries, so 2 stocks, or 2 nano techs etc). I had bought the 2 elebars to test them, but by the looks of it, I have one dodgy one, so there goes that idea lol

    My tri-blades should be here any day!!!
     
  11. martcerv

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    The Storm 2700's are very solid batteries but I bought them from Hong Kong and they werent all that cheap. I initially got them with my FPV screen and figured Id use them for that and with some luck theyd fit into the phantom.

    I have a few of the turnigy Nano Tech 35-70c 2200mah from Hobby King Aus warehouse and these were only about $18 each, they are a little thicker then all the other batteries I have and are quite a squeeze into the door. I am going to try the Zippy 2800mah batteries from Hobby king but I just noticed someone made a comment claiming shorter flying time then on a stock DJI 2200 with it so they may not be that great. Others are saying they are ok but I guess I will find out when they come in the next day or so.

    The last thing you want is under-performing batteries especially if flying FPV without OSD, that is my next upgrade along with a gimbal and a second FPV cam after which I should be all set at least until I build another multi :lol: . I have been pushing the range tests with the new radio but I do the longer flights on my 2700's as they give me 10 minutes regular flying and 8 minutes going fairly hard. Next tests will be to 1.5km then maybe push to 2km if my upgraded monitor mount helps out as it was starting to struggle between 1 and 1.3km on the first few tests with the antenna in a very bad position shielded between 2 big carbon monitor supports and antenna straight out.
     
  12. thetac

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    I really enjoyed your videos.....and I tip my hat to you for continually flying (intentionally) out of transmitter range....it is very cool to see on the video how the phantom responds....and then to catch it as it comes home and continue on with the mission...very cool! I have tested my failsafe on two occasions (within view) but i am even nervous to do that...lol! But as I get better I will attempt fpv flying and hoping for the same results as you are getting!! 1.2km is very cool indeed. This is all with stock antenna on the phantom...do you have anything special on the fpv transmitter/receiver as far as antennas? Seems like very clear video transmission.
     
  13. jumanoc

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    I use these 2500 mAh,(Hyperion) rated as good invest... fits perfectly into batt tray, almost same size than stock batt. Weight 205gr

    http://www.rc-drones.com/hyp-G3-CX-2500mAh-3S-25C.php

    8 minutes with tri-blades sport flying !

    [​IMG]
     
  14. TickTock

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    Nice flip at 7:57! I haven't had the guts to attempt that yet although I have done a little flying in manual.

     
  15. martcerv

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    My FPV setup is just the stock standard DJI AVL58 with DJI cloverleaf antennas, it does better then I expected. For extreme long range I think a diversity antenna and a dedicated long range antenna will be needed. But 1.5KM seems quite possible LOS with this setup and 700m behind some trees as in one of my more recent videos which was also my last flights with the stock radio.

    Since then I have got the Futaba 8FGS which is letting me push on a bit further, flying out of range at these limits is a little scarier so I plan on flying in places where I can easily get it back should things go wrong.

    [​IMG]

    Flips are ok but Im more into just some controlled faster flying that manual mode allows, been pushing a little too hard and thats why I upgraded my radio to add more safety. I like to test the max range so then if I fly a bit riskier I can fly within the safer zone. If you do some flips first try them at high altitude and once you start you must commit and finish or it will end badly, I tried some barrel rolls the other day and got a little closer to the ground then I wanted.

    Once you get the hang of manual mode its quite a natural feeling not having to fight the NAZA like I tend to do in the other modes. But the more you push the more battery drain also so anyone doing so should take this into account if you dont have OSD or telemetry with voltage levels.
     
  16. jumanoc

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    Want 20+ min flight time ? just add 2 batteries:

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sYgQJ9dNWg[/youtube]
     
  17. thetac

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    I've had two batteries for a LONG time....2500s and 2200mah....pretty stripped down, just fat shark, with camera, and transmitter board mounted internally, also have simonsays landing gear, with 9050 tri blades, and upgraded MT motors...never got close to 20 minutes....weighs in at 1320g. I'd like to see 20 minutes...i have 2800s on order...but i don't think it will go 20 minutes. If i put a 3rd battery on i'd be at least 1500g.....I'll test it to see what happens....got plenty of batteries, just need to make up another y wire...but why stop at 3...lets try 4...1700g total weight.....now we're getting heavy!! But with tri blades and upgraded motors who knows??
     
  18. martcerv

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    That is 3 stock batteries 6600mah, so likely close to the phantom vision. No FPV or gimbal just a camera total weight was 1375g I think he said. Only using 8 inch props would have done better with some 9 inch dual or tri I think. Also when getting that heavy you will be adding much more load on the props so more likely to break having to lift so much weight.

    I have lifted 1.3kg no issues on the gws triblades but nit sure how much more load they can take and what props you should use when pushing well beyond the 1.3kg mark.