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My PV is flipping over - Please help

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision Discussion' started by Alchemist Creations, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. Alchemist Creations

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    hello

    Im very new to the phantom vision and flying a quadcopter. I got the vision yesterday and had a couple of good flights - no problems - everything was going good.

    And then today - I powered on the vision - started to push the throttle and the vision toppled over on to the rear propellors - tried it a couple more time and it just topples over to the backside.

    please help
     
  2. Bwells

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    You need to go full throttle when taking off. If you try to slowly lift off, the Vision will have a tendency to flip over backwards. Give it a full throttle until off the ground, and then ease back on the sticks.
     
  3. Alchemist Creations

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    thanks mate -- i was getting a bit worried :)
     
  4. JustJames

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    Im having the same problem but in reverse. When I land the dang thing wants to lean back on me. I have scripted up a set of props twice. Grrr. I'm sure its me but it seems like the landing base could be wider or longer. I may look for aftermarket in the future..

    James
     
  5. discv

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    Even us original Phantom owners have had to climb round this tipping problem.

    The answer is to not try and take off/land neatly- we all started with this mistake.

    To take off- throw it straight up quick as possible. Then sort it out to look pretty.

    To land- hover a few inches off the ground-then cut the motors [both sticks back and together] This to try and get the props near still as it touches the ground. Thus if the craft does tip the props do not get chewed
     
  6. PhantomFan

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    Wow...I couldn't disagree more! I was taught (MANY years ago) to fly my planes OFF of and ONTO the ground. That means the aircraft is under your radio control at ALL TIMES from props on to props off. Even when the Phantom is in the grass or on my resin picnic table (from which I like to take off and land) I am giving it control inputs as it GRADUALLY is throttled up and takes off.

    It is entirely possible to have beautifully controlled take-off's and landings with the Phantom. I do it all the time!! Been doing it from day 1 when I received the craft. I can even get it to settle neatly into the grass all tidy and level by flying it right onto the final resting place. The practice of "leaping into the air" so that the gyros can take control and stabilize the craft and "dumping to the ground" upon landing is evidence of nothing but poor piloting skills which you NEVER see when watching a truly excellent, experienced R/C pilot. They don't "honk" or "muscle" their airplanes or heli's into the air nor do they dump 'em back on the runway, either. And neither should you!

    TRY flying it off the ground, staring in grass. You may/will see the craft teeter-totter slightly. Give it appropriate stick input and GRADUALLY lift off. It looks beautiful and is EASY to learn. Landing is the reverse. Settle it in nicely, again with appropriate right stick inputs. Try it and you WILL SEE that it is perfectly capable of doing it, and so are YOU.

    PF
     
  7. Pull_Up

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    I can heartily recommend getting a cheap micro quad like the original Hubsan X4, for example. They cost about the same (or less) as two full sets of Vision blades and they will help you learn to make the small, constant, control inputs needed to nail a landing. I'm no topgun pilot by any means, but coming from a micro quad to the Vision I've yet to come even close to tipping over and that's because the micro quad teaches you to fly the aircraft all the time. They won't hold a hover without constant little corrective inputs which is great training for bringing the Vision down those last few inches into the propwash and ground effect.

    As a side bonus, when the weather is terrible, you can still get some quad action in your living room!
     
  8. discv

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    So,PF, what advice would you give to these guys [and me] who have not yet got your flying skills?

    Do it as do- which solves the problem- or stock up big time with spare props until we reach your pay grade ;)
     
  9. PhantomFan

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    You CAN already do it, you just haven't practiced it! If you can fly your Phantom under control in the air, you can fly it off of and onto the ground!!! Pick an exceedingly calm day and select a place where the grass is short. Make sure the copter is perfectly plumb and level when you attach the battery, and DON'T touch it until after it has given you the series of green lights that ends the warm-up and begins the satellite search. Don't even THINK about putting the battery in the bay intil this routine has finished. THIS IS KEY to your success!!! Now your Phantom is programmed to "know" what perfectly plumb and level is! When you throttle up, it will attempt to maintain plumb and level. To the extent that the wind or ground effect disturb the craft, make necessary inputs. It's only a few seconds!

    Then, follow the advice in my last paragraph, which I copy and paste here:

    "TRY flying it off the ground, staring in grass. You may/will see the craft teeter-totter slightly. Give it appropriate stick input and GRADUALLY lift off. It looks beautiful and is EASY to learn. Landing is the reverse. Settle it in nicely, again with appropriate right stick inputs. Try it and you WILL SEE that it is perfectly capable of doing it, and so are YOU."

    You CAN do it! With a tiny amount of practice (do five or six in a row - you'll see!) you will be brilliant at it! Take it up 2 meters, pick a place, settle it down. Repeat. You can learn to do this in 2 batteries worth of juice. People who see you do this will know you are an A+ pilot...and when you realize you can do it, you will know you are one, too! Let us know how you make out!!

    P.S. I have NO special flying skills. I'm a newbie to quads - but I'm not allowing myself to develop bad flying habits. I'm simply trying to recover the good flying habits I once had.

    Best always,

    PF
     
  10. discv

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    Ok,PF. Can we meet in the middle here?

    With regard to the OP, my cure for tipping on take off/landing WILL solve the problem.

    But I concede, in your favour, that this method is clumsy, untidy and unprofessional. And needs practice to improve.


    But it works ;)
     
  11. Sidewinder

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    You might check your "Command Sticks Calibration" page in the phantom assistant software just to make sure they are all centered and respond to full travel. It's possible the pitch control is out of whack a bit. From the way you describe the pitch back towards aft at liftoff that could be the problem OR there's aft cyclic or "stick" applied at liftoff. otherwise I'd just "pop" it off the ground to a hover without touching the cyclic stick. Most people new to helicopters tend to over control. Less is better at this point. It should center and come to a stable hover.
     
  12. JustJames

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    So I picked up some carbon fiber tubing from the hobby shop and cut them into 2 9 inch sections, painted them white and attached them with zip ties. It worked perfectly for landing and taking off. Super stoked on that. But it affected the hover a bit which for some naive reason I didn't think it would. I had more length on the rear because thats where it tends to tip. But when I hover...surprise it wants to lean back...duh. So i reattached them to be equal length front and back and will see if it balanced it out in a bit. I THINK it will. If this works I will be happy. Cheap and does the job. Doesn't look as high end but thats alright w me for now.
     
  13. JustJames

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    oops posted upside down...weird. u get the gist. It made all the difference balancing them out equal length. Lands AND hovers like a champ now.

    james
     
  14. JustJames

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    here ya go.
     

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  15. PhantomFan

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    When I was first learning to fly my .60 size heli, I was advised to use two pine sticks from the local hobby shop and add a wiffle ball on the ends as "training wheels" when I was first learning to take off, hover and land. The purpose was to save $$$$$$$ on inadvertent tip-overs that could bust a set of props. I used them for about four flights and then realized they were nothing more than a crutch that was slowing my learning because they blunted and hid my stick errors.

    You might want to consider putting ping pong balls on those if you must use them at all. The balls will prevent the ends from snagging the grass if you are taking off or landing on a lawn.

    PF
     
  16. JustJames

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    Cool thanks for tips.
     
  17. martcerv

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    I agree with PF that you should be able to learn to fly it onto and off the ground easy enough. Learning the subtle control inputs needed especially with a bit of breeze will make you a better pilot overall. However in some NAZA firmware versions the takeoff procedure was kind of screwed up I think and made this a bit trickier then it should be even though DJI made changes intending for people to get smoother take offs. It kind of worked the opposite way and so gentle throttle control on takeoff was being over ridden with some DJI auto code and if heavy and a little off balance this made it harder to rise those first few inches smoothly.

    This way I even found it was easier to just give it full throttle until the legs just got off the ground and then go back to neutral throttle and fly it from there. Its not like you go full throttle to head high or anything just for a split second till it lifts off then you can control it again. Especially when heavy taking off with gently raising throttle seemed like it was kind of doing something on its own fighting your inputs and made it hard to predict what it was going to do. v4.02 seems much better in this regard and more back to how it was in the first phantom firmware version I had which was in the low v3 range on regular phantoms but I dont have a vision so not sure of the firmware version or how it is dealing with the takeoff procedure.

    In terms of landing I prefer to do this in atti mode for much the same reasons as on takeoff with the DJI code trying to make things easier but just ending up doing weird things so you loose a bit of subtle control. I really dont want the GPS to be auto correcting as at times it does some odd movements and so in ATTI i can hold it into the breeze and come down as smoothly as I want then kill the motors as soon as I landed. I would never recommend you try to kill the motors before touching down but its a good practice to do as soon as you have landed. Especially if windy as it may topple over with the props still spinning.

    If its really windy then I will do a hand catch as at 40kmh+ winds landing is close to impossible at times but then if you haven't got good control of the phantom you really shouldn't be flying in very strong winds anyway. :mrgreen:
     
  18. Dave Pitman

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    Just a comment.

    My Phantom v1.1.1 using Firmware 4.02 has a takeoff algorithm and it makes no difference what throttle input is made. It takes off rather slow, in my opinion. I generally take a quad off the ground quickly to avoid interaction with terrain objects while in ground effect. The Phantom takes off in it's own sweet (programmed) time, then throttle control is active about 1 meter agl. I haven't tried taking off in Manual.

    If you guys are able to adjust your takeoff power setting with stick control, it is different than mine.