Joining Class D and E airspaces
- Thread starter Hawaii Drone Imaging
- Start date
I would assume so, but I would contact the airport manager to check. Here is the Chart Supplement and it only refers to the Class D reverting to G.
EDIT: Found a document that calls out that airport specifically and that airport hours include the extensions.
EDIT: Found a document that calls out that airport specifically and that airport hours include the extensions.
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Great work. I was going to post and include the same links, but you beat me to it. The only thing I might suggest sUAVe do differently is to call the local FSDO instead of, (or in addition to), calling the airport manager.
I find it interesting that the FAA document making reference to the ambiguity in the chart labeling, and the recommendations for clarifying the issue, is dated from 2007. The current Sectional is still labeled the same way.
Ahh, the wheels of progress grind slowly....
Answer to your first questions is yes; the D becomes G.
Please read doktorinjh's post above for following up on your second question. He did great work there for you, and it is well worth reading..
Really good question, by the way. A hat tip to you!
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Thanks for the info. Very helpful considering I'm sure this is not the only airport with adjoining surfaces. I also looked at the supplement. Sorry I didn't mention that. I've also been looking in the FAA Aeronautical Chart Users Guide 12th Edition (Page 9, 19, 20) which covers airspace designation but makes no mention of adjoining airspaces. There is a note stating "See NOTAMS/Directory for Class D/E (sfc) eft hrs", but as we have both found, the only referral given on the supplement, gives Class D information.
How did you come about finding that document? I followed the web link, but wondering what made you go there?
How did you come about finding that document? I followed the web link, but wondering what made you go there?
I'm really good at the internets.
I googled "surface class e extension airspace airport hours" and it was one of the top few links. Really just dumb luck that it was one of the examples used in the document. As Crack The Sky pointed out, the document is 10 years old and they still haven't changed the way that those extensions are noted on the charts.
So what's the conclusion? As noted above, the latest A/FD still only mentions the Class D effective hours so presumably, even though the linked document points out the inconsistency, the surface Class E is 24/7.
Well, in the linked document that dok sent, there was a reference to Part 71 which "describes" the function/limits of each layer of airspace. I did some poking around and found this.
This tells me that since Class D is more restrictive than E, we must follow the operating rules of D, which says "becomes Class G after xxx hours". I think its a legal leg to stand on. I don't know about you guys, but I've missed a couple of jobs because of this same situation. Now I'm keeping a copy handy.
This tells me that since Class D is more restrictive than E, we must follow the operating rules of D, which says "becomes Class G after xxx hours". I think its a legal leg to stand on. I don't know about you guys, but I've missed a couple of jobs because of this same situation. Now I'm keeping a copy handy.
Assuming the Class E is 24/7 would be the prudent & safe choice. When I was flying for a living, if I had been confronted with this, I would not even have relied on the FSDO's spoken word telling me otherwise. I would have had to see it in writing before I would have ever accepted the Class E as becoming G. Defaulting to the more restrictive airspace classification is always the best bet.
Well, in the linked document that dok sent, there was a reference to Part 71 which "describes" the function/limits of each layer of airspace. I did some poking around and found this.
View attachment 82345
This tells me that since Class D is more restrictive than E, we must follow the operating rules of D, which says "becomes Class G after xxx hours". I think its a legal leg to stand on. I don't know about you guys, but I've missed a couple of jobs because of this same situation. Now I'm keeping a copy handy.
The distinction here, however, is that they are adjoining, not overlapping and so that guidance, while correct, is presumably not applicable.
Well, just for argument sake, I see how you came to your conclusion, but the premise, "since Class D is more restrictive than E, we must follow the operating rules of D", is flawed. When the D is inop it becomes G, so there is no longer D to to be more restrictive then the E. So, the E, (which you can't be sure is not there), is certainly more restrictive then the known G and I would have to defer to E rules.Well, in the linked document that dok sent, there was a reference to Part 71 which "describes" the function/limits of each layer of airspace. I did some poking around and found this.
View attachment 82345
This tells me that since Class D is more restrictive than E, we must follow the operating rules of D, which says "becomes Class G after xxx hours". I think its a legal leg to stand on. I don't know about you guys, but I've missed a couple of jobs because of this same situation. Now I'm keeping a copy handy.
I love the FAA Regs. I really do.
Next to women, they are the greatest enigma a man will ever encounter.
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captainmilehigh
Premium Pilot
@Crack The Sky...........comparing women and the FAA.......hmmmm.......careful now.....that ice is mighty thin you're standing on there bud......[emoji23]
Both can be relentless at times.........[emoji31]
Both can be relentless at times.........[emoji31]
Oh how true. But they've both added such adventure, too.
I hate to beat the horse, but I was still curious and continued digging....I found this in the AIM dated 5/26/16. This was in Chapter 3 - Controlled Airspace. The last sentence in the paragraph is what I'm thinking is my answer.
The second caption is also from the 5/26/16 AIM in the front of the manual. It is part of a listing of several changes that have occurred between 2012 and 2017.
Am I on to something fellas?
The second caption is also from the 5/26/16 AIM in the front of the manual. It is part of a listing of several changes that have occurred between 2012 and 2017.
Am I on to something fellas?
Oh buddy! You have solved your issue. There it is in black & white and taken from the AIM. Copy that and carry it with you. Good Job.
Digging around a little sure beats applying for a Waiver.
I'm proud of you. And I stand corrected.
Yes, agreed, that appears to be definitive. The extension goes away with the Class D. Nice work.
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