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Is 4K better than 1080p when playback is at 1080p

Discussion in 'Pro/Adv Discussion' started by beatnik, Jul 11, 2015.

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  1. CLIP 1 is 4K

    48.1%
  2. CLIP 2 is 4K

    44.4%
  3. Can't Tell the Diff

    7.4%
  1. beatnik

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    Just doing some initial video testing on the P3P. Here is a video that I shot yesterday that shows the same relative scene with 4K and 1080p30. Both using 100 ISO, 400 Shutter, Normal color, and custom sharpening set to -3.

    See if you can tell which clip is the 4K and which is 1080p CLIP 1 or CLIP 2? Which looks better playing back at 1080p. Make sure you set youtube to playback fullscreen and at 1080. Otherwise the test is rather pointless LOL.

     
    #1 beatnik, Jul 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2015
  2. BMc

    BMc

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    I record in 4k but only view in 1080p. I don't currently have any monitors or TV's capable of 4k. However without going into too much detail, 4k downscaled to 1080p looks a million times better than 1080p viewed in 1080p. When shot in 4k you capture 4 times the color data and that is carried down when downscaled so you end up with a 1080 video with a lot more color information.
     
  3. Charles Harris

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    How do you down scale video from 4k to 1080 in premiere pro?
     
  4. Griszka

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    Right click on video on timeline and click on "scale to frame size"
     
  5. Charles Harris

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    Thanks, I have not tried down scaling 4k to 1080. Does the 1080 look better? Will that also eliminate the choppiness of the video after being down scaled?

    Thanks for your reply

    Rchjr
     
  6. Griszka

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    it is definitely better. Its more color info. The image is sharper.
    what do you mean by writing "choppines"?
     
  7. tcope

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    I view it at 1080 on a "3k" screen and it was difficult to say. I think clip 2 looked better but 1) it was difficult to know as the views in the clips changed very quickly and 2) it was just difficult to tell.

    I think as it was difficult for me to tell the difference goes to both looking about the same.

    However, also keep in mind that Youtube is going to compress both of these files which might tend to even them both out a little.
     
  8. Ken Cruise

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    I always do two encodings of my P3 vids. 1 in 4K and the other in 1080p. My computer is very laggy with the 4K resolution and the end file size is usually higher than what FB allows so by encoding my video to 1080p with Adobe Media Encoder I can use the 1080p encode as a "proxy" for faster editing. I then apply all the edits and filters to my 4K footage and encode. When you export your media (File-export-media) I use the H.264 format and select the Preset YouTube1080P HD.This will encode your video at 1080p. I suggest then changing the settings to 2 pass VBR and check Use Maximum Render Quality. When you scale the video with the timeline settings what exactly does that do?
     
  9. Charles Harris

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    The video is kinda jerky, I read somewhere that you need a heft computer to play 4k smoothly. when I have a video clip in my time line that is 4k and I right click on it and choose scale to frame size, shouldn't a window come up asking me to change it to 1080? I just tried that and it seemed like nothing happened.
     
  10. SteelGator

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    My sense was clip two looked better, and I agree with @tcope's caveats
     
  11. Oso

    Oso

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    I personally chose a P3A because I thought that for the expected life of the bird that I would not really need 4k, nor do I currently have a 4k monitor. I thought about resale and the higher residual value of a P3P, but I just know that I never really sell anything. The P3A seemed fine to me.

    Now that I have a P3A, I sometimes wish I had gone with a P3P for just one reason. The pesky tilted horizon similar to the tilted horizon in your videos. I did not know at the time of purchase that a tilted horizon was such an issue. An issue that is now well known but still may never be fixed.

    With a 4k source, I could have corrected the tilted horizon in post and still had a stunningly crisp video remaining. With a 1080 source, any cropping to edit the tilted horizon results in a less than 1080 video with visible (to me) degradation.

    If I knew then what I know now, I would have gone with a P3P.
     
    JoBe likes this.
  12. Charles Harris

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    Ken,

    Thanks, If I wanted to play my video on my computer to eliminate the laggy, this method would work I assume? I am familiar with media encoder,. I shot video in 4k which looked very nice. But playback on my computer was very laggy and a pain to watch.


    When I choose scale to frame size, it appears that it doesnt do anything. No pop up asking me what size to scale it too. I was assuming I would see a window asking me what size to scale it to. I was hoping to improve video quality and get rid of the lagginess. Media encoder will do that I am sure.
     
    #12 Charles Harris, Jul 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  13. JonasHess

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    Before you drag the clip into the timeline you need to create a new sequence that is 1080p. Then you drag the 4k clip on to the timeline and right click on it to scale to size.
     
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  14. Ken Cruise

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    MPC-HC X64 does a fine job of playback of 4K resolution videos with minimal lag just to pre the footage but while editing in PPCC or AE, especially after filters, forget it. Once I started encoding with 2pass VBR and Max Render Quality the micro-stutter went away. The low frame rate 30fps would make every shot that wasn't a straight line look horrible.

    Or maybe I have just become a better pilot.lol
     
    #14 Ken Cruise, Jul 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  15. Charles Harris

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    I qued a clip in media encoder that was 8 minutes, 4 hrs to encode! h.264, you tube 1080

    Really....seriously
     
  16. beatnik

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    So then, which one is better CLIP 1 or CLIP 2? Just go full screen and select 1080p in YOUTUBE to view it native 1080p (if your computer can show that res) In my eyes it's not better - just different. I encoded it at H264 30Mb/sec 2 pass Max Color Depth, 15 key frame for youtube, but they hit it with more compression.It's funny with 6 votes it's 50 50. LOL.

    If you look at the two clips in HD 1080p do you like the detail and color rendering better in one than the other?

    I think the real benefit will be scaling the 4K up to zoom in or reframe the shot. It definitely has to have more compression in the frame given the same bit rate. I see it in the trees.
     
  17. Ken Cruise

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    What's your computer specs? It depends on your RAM, GPU and CPU as well as your hard drive and software settings. To make the encode times faster you want to make sure you are not using a USB reader or USB External drive. An internal SD/Card reader and your internal HD will be much faster.
     
  18. Griszka

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    I forgot. Of course you should create 1080p sequence first

    1. 4k is better for postproduction, because you have more roome for make changes like reframing.

    2. In theory there should be more information in 4k footage downscaled to 1080P, so for example, it should be better for color grading. I was only experimenting with 4k (downscaled to 1080p) footage from P3P taken from balcony, because I bought my bird in Bangkok and not sure if I can fly here (newer tried 1080p mode), and I can say that you can go much further with color grading then with gopro hero 3+ footage.
     
    #18 Griszka, Jul 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  19. Charles Harris

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    I have amd athlon II quad processor,12 gig of ram,ati radeon hd 5800
     
  20. beatnik

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    I didn't think of that. Hmmm. If you take the 4K first into color correction in a 4K sequence - then take that one out to your final 1080p delivery. I'll test that. Shoot 4K, grade in 4K then downconvert. .. (few minutes later)

    OK Here is another example with CLIP 1 and CLIP 2. You guess which is which. 4K and 1080p shot. THIS time, both with color grading. The same effect on both clips. RGB Curves, Vignette and Grad in Sky. Effects applied in a 4K sequence on 4K clip before bringing it into the 1080 sequence for comparison again the other clip. Both rendered out at 1080p30.

     
    #20 beatnik, Jul 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015