Help! - Gone nuts; got dizzy and flew into a mountain

Do you still have confidence in DJI?


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Here's the link:
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/products/planetary-k-index

Our signals do not pass through the ionosphere, that layer is some 50 through 600 miles above the earth's surface.

GPS signals can be affected by geomagnetic activity:

"
SPACE WEATHER AND GPS SYSTEMS
The use of single and dual frequency satellite radio navigation systems, like the Global Positioning System (GPS), has grown dramatically in the last decade. GPS receivers are now in nearly every cell phone and in many automobiles, trucks, and any equipment that moves and needs precision location measurements. High precision dual frequency GPS systems are used for farming, construction, exploration, surveying, snow removal and many other applications critical to a functional society. Other satellite navigation systems in orbit include the European Galileo system and the Russian GLONASS system.

There are several ways in which space weather impacts GPS function. GPS radio signals travel from the satellite to the receiver on the ground, passing through the Earth’s ionosphere. The charged plasma of the ionosphere bends the path of the GPS radio signal similar to the way a lens bends the path of light. In the absence of space weather, GPS systems compensate for the “average” or “quiet” ionosphere, using a model to calculate its effect on the accuracy of the positioning information. But when the ionosphere is disturbed by a space weather event, the models are no longer accurate and the receivers are unable to calculate an accurate position based on the satellites overhead.

In calm conditions, single frequency GPS systems can provide position information with an accuracy of a meter or less. During a severe space weather storm, these errors can increase to tens of meters or more. Dual frequency GPS systems can provide position information accurate to a few centimeters. In this case the two different GPS signals are used to better characterize the ionosphere and remove its impact on the position calculation. But when the ionosphere becomes highly disturbed, the GPS receiver cannot lock on the satellite signal and position information becomes inaccurate.

Geomagnetic storms create large disturbances in the ionosphere. The currents and energy introduced by a geomagnetic storm enhance the ionosphere and increase the total height-integrated number of ionospheric electrons, or the Total Electron Count (TEC). GPS systems cannot correctly model this dynamic enhancement and errors are introduced into the position calculations. This usually occurs at high latitudes, though major storms can produce large TEC enhancements at mid-latitudes as well.

Near the Earth’s magnetic equator there are current systems and electric fields that create instabilities in the ionosphere. The instabilities are most severe just after sunset. These smaller scale (tens of kilometers) instabilities, or bubbles, cause GPS signals to “scintillate”, much like waves on the surface of a body of water will disrupt and scatter the path of light as it passes through them. Near the equator, dual frequency GPS systems often lose their lock due to “ionospheric scintallation”. Ionospheric scintallations are not associated with any sort of space weather storm, but are simply part of the natural day-night cycle of the equatorial ionosphere."

From the same source.
 
Here's the link:
Planetary K-index | NOAA / NWS Space Weather Prediction Center

Our signals do not pass through the ionosphere, that layer is some 50 through 600 miles above the earth's surface.

GPS signals can be affected by geomagnetic activity:

"
SPACE WEATHER AND GPS SYSTEMS
The use of single and dual frequency satellite radio navigation systems, like the Global Positioning System (GPS), has grown dramatically in the last decade. GPS receivers are now in nearly every cell phone and in many automobiles, trucks, and any equipment that moves and needs precision location measurements. High precision dual frequency GPS systems are used for farming, construction, exploration, surveying, snow removal and many other applications critical to a functional society. Other satellite navigation systems in orbit include the European Galileo system and the Russian GLONASS system.

There are several ways in which space weather impacts GPS function. GPS radio signals travel from the satellite to the receiver on the ground, passing through the Earth’s ionosphere. The charged plasma of the ionosphere bends the path of the GPS radio signal similar to the way a lens bends the path of light. In the absence of space weather, GPS systems compensate for the “average” or “quiet” ionosphere, using a model to calculate its effect on the accuracy of the positioning information. But when the ionosphere is disturbed by a space weather event, the models are no longer accurate and the receivers are unable to calculate an accurate position based on the satellites overhead.

In calm conditions, single frequency GPS systems can provide position information with an accuracy of a meter or less. During a severe space weather storm, these errors can increase to tens of meters or more. Dual frequency GPS systems can provide position information accurate to a few centimeters. In this case the two different GPS signals are used to better characterize the ionosphere and remove its impact on the position calculation. But when the ionosphere becomes highly disturbed, the GPS receiver cannot lock on the satellite signal and position information becomes inaccurate.

Geomagnetic storms create large disturbances in the ionosphere. The currents and energy introduced by a geomagnetic storm enhance the ionosphere and increase the total height-integrated number of ionospheric electrons, or the Total Electron Count (TEC). GPS systems cannot correctly model this dynamic enhancement and errors are introduced into the position calculations. This usually occurs at high latitudes, though major storms can produce large TEC enhancements at mid-latitudes as well.

Near the Earth’s magnetic equator there are current systems and electric fields that create instabilities in the ionosphere. The instabilities are most severe just after sunset. These smaller scale (tens of kilometers) instabilities, or bubbles, cause GPS signals to “scintillate”, much like waves on the surface of a body of water will disrupt and scatter the path of light as it passes through them. Near the equator, dual frequency GPS systems often lose their lock due to “ionospheric scintallation”. Ionospheric scintallations are not associated with any sort of space weather storm, but are simply part of the natural day-night cycle of the equatorial ionosphere."

From the same source.

Yes I have read that page before. I am not saying these storms will effect us all the time, what I am saying is that when there is a severe solar storm, we may be effected in our GPS and 2.4GHz HF radio waves. Above it states; "The charged plasma of the ionosphere bends the path of the GPS radio signal similar to the way a lens bends the path of light. In the absence of space weather, GPS systems compensate for the “average” or “quiet” ionosphere, using a model to calculate its effect on the accuracy of the positioning information. But when the ionosphere is disturbed by a space weather event, the models are no longer accurate and the receivers are unable to calculate an accurate position based on the satellites overhead."

[Edit] You are correct, our signals do not go into the ionosphere. I should be referring only to our GPS signals being disrupted during solar storms. Thanks.

You guys are taking this way out of proportion. I am saying this is real, we are effected by many things and it is just another item that we need to be concerned about. If that 11 year cycle for a sever solar storm comes along, I will know it, you may not. My original point is that in the past week, we have had a KP index of up to 6 which is somewhat unusual. The KP index is usually 4 and below. Just something to be aware of daily in case a severe solar storm occurs. So, relax and enjoy your drones.
 
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I would think that if solar activity did anything it would mess up GPS reception which would put the craft into ATTI mode which they like to do anyway.

Was trying to get pictures of the auroras last night - not really bright enough - but GPS seemed perfectly happy. K index was 6. I've been on my boat with a K index of 8 (and neat auroras) but no obvious GPS problems. That is not an apple to apple comparison as the boat's GPS is bigger and possibly more sensitive.
 
Missed it by that much.

maxresdefault_zpsjrnqrrnf.jpg
 
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I would think that if solar activity did anything it would mess up GPS reception which would put the craft into ATTI mode which they like to do anyway.

Was trying to get pictures of the auroras last night - not really bright enough - but GPS seemed perfectly happy. K index was 6. I've been on my boat with a K index of 8 (and neat auroras) but no obvious GPS problems. That is not an apple to apple comparison as the boat's GPS is bigger and possibly more sensitive.

My understanding is that the solar storms do mess with radio frequencies, but it is at the lower bandwidth. Not the 2.4GHz as I was stating. But, yes the GPS it does mess with but usually only on the more severe solar activity.

That is really cool. I have never seen the auroras except in pictures. It must be something to be right there. Were you using your drone for pictures or just a regular camera? Do you fly a drone from your boat? If so, have you had any problems with GPS on your drone and KP at 8?
 
My understanding is that the solar storms do mess with radio frequencies, but it is at the lower bandwidth. Not the 2.4GHz as I was stating. But, yes the GPS it does mess with but usually only on the more severe solar activity.
At KP 6 there would be no noticeable effect on the GPS of a Phantom.
At higher KP values the offset may be more but at KP 6 your GPS position may be off by 2-3 metres.
See http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/reports/PAN86_0714.pdf and look at P31-32.
Your Phantom would still fly properly but RTH may be off by a couple of metres ... but GPS accuracy is variable anyway so you'd never notice.
It won't cause the Phantom to go crazy or do unpredictable things.

By the time the K index is at a level that causes real drone flying problems, your Phantom would be the last of your concerns.
 
At KP 6 there would be no noticeable effect on the GPS of a Phantom.
At higher KP values the offset may be more but at KP 6 your GPS position may be off by 2-3 metres.
See http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/reports/PAN86_0714.pdf and look at P31-32.
Your Phantom would still fly properly but RTH may be off by a couple of metres ... but GPS accuracy is variable anyway so you'd never notice.
It won't cause the Phantom to go crazy or do unpredictable things.

By the time the K index is at a level that causes real drone flying problems, your Phantom would be the last of your concerns.

This is good information. This is why this forum is so valuable. If you're off a little in your information, you will learn so much more by all the information people will help you with. Along with my online research and the information here, I have learned a lot that will help me with my flying. Thanks.
 
Thanks all for the feedback - I see other users have experienced connectivity problems with Go v2.9 for android.

Anyway have put it down to experience - I have lost faith in DJIs software QA.
Will look elsewhere for my next drone - one which has no additional external dependancies
 
I have lost faith in DJIs software QA.
You lost contact because you flew behind a 100 metre high pile of rock.
You crashed because you did not have the RTH set to clear the obstacles you flew behind.
That's got nothing to do with software QA and it's not DJI you should be losing confidencein.
Your crash was 100% avoidable and the Phantom did just as it is programmed to.
Will look elsewhere for my next drone - one which has no additional external dependancies
Good luck trying to find another machine to match the abilities of your P3 Advanced.
It's a year and a half old now but still better than anything else from any other company.
By the time they are challenging the P3, whatever DJI is making will be even further ahead.
 
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Thanks all for the feedback - I see other users have experienced connectivity problems with Go v2.9 for android.

Anyway have put it down to experience - I have lost faith in DJIs software QA.
Will look elsewhere for my next drone - one which has no additional external dependancies

I have noticed for myself at least that with DJI GO 2.9.1 that the GEO system "MUST" be turned on. If you are in an area that could be flagged by the GEO system, it will ask you if you are authorized. You have to check both check marks (it's up to you to know if you are authorized or not) and click go, or ok or whatever the last item is. Then you will be able to take off and it should run like always. That is my experience. If GEO is not on, each time I did not have it on, I got the same message... "lost connection to remote" or something to that effect. Turned on GEO and answered the questions, all okay. If you haven't tried it, that may be the issue. This may not be true if you are in an area without a class a,b,c,or d classification. Good luck.
 
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You lost contact because you flew behind a 100 metre high pile of rock.
You crashed because you did not have the RTH set to clear the obstacles you flew behind.
That's got nothing to do with software QA and it's not DJI you should be losing confidencein.
Your crash was 100% avoidable and the Phantom did just as it is programmed to.

Good luck trying to find another machine to match the abilities of your P3 Advanced.
It's a year and a half old now but still better than anything else from any other company.
By the time they are challenging the P3, whatever DJI is making will be even further ahead.

Thanks for your opinion, however I think you are making the assumption I was standing at the point of takeoff which was not the case - during flight I walked back and up the opposing hill in order to keep line of sight - all be it the drone was but a small white 'dot' - I'm not that daft :)
Please also note the youtube video timelines do not directly correlate to the flight logs I lost connectivity just before the drone 'spun'.
Interesting post about the GEO - this was set to the default (enabled) however given that the RTH and max height had reset to 0 upon the GO app upgrade (orig 120m) I wonder if there is a correlating bug. GO app warns 120m is the max alt permitted by law - hence my choice

As to finding another machine - after being burned; Im not in the market for another drone - reliability needs to mature
 
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120 meters above the ground or buildings, so, for example, if you have a hill that's 150 meters high you can fly 120 meters above that, and you should set your RTH altitude accordingly. If you don't, it will dutifully fly into the hill during RTH just as yours did in the video. It did what you told it to do. You didn't get burned by DJI, you burned yourself with pilot error.
 
Even to my untrained eye it looks like the AC was on the edge of radio signal and the spinning behavior was user input and then there was a complete loss of radio signal and the AC engaged RTH as programed. Seems like it worked as it should. Problem with being in the mountains is RHT may not be the best option with signal loss.
 
Being in LOS doesn't mean you didn't have a weak connection. It was a preventable crash, which means it was pilot error.
 
Clearly a pilot error. You'll never find a machine that would avoid that if not the newer phantoms/mavic that have collision sensors. Moreover with a whatever else drone you couldn't have flew so far.
 
re: weak connection - according to healthy drones it was ok - yet the controller lost connection without the usual video breakup warning signs

re: spinning behavior was user input - but that was not the case or at least my 'input'

Suprise, suprise - Latest GO v3.0 and RC update

New Firmware for Phantom series Remote Control

" Enhanced Remote Controller and mobile device connection stability."

Hmm.... better late than never - thanks DJI
 
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re: weak connection - according to healthy drones it was ok - yet the controller lost connection without the usual video breakup warning signs
re: spinning behavior was user input - but that was not the case or at least my 'input'
Of course HD shows a good connection ... up until there was no connection and then there is nothing for HD to report on because there is NO CONNECTION.
It's very unusual for a Phantom to rotate steadily as your video shows without some control to cause it.
If you were to analyse the .dat file from the Phantom, I'm pretty sure it would confirm that you were using left stick to turn back but had lost video signal so could not see the results of your control input.
Suprise, suprise - Latest GO v3.0 and RC update
New Firmware for Phantom series Remote Control
" Enhanced Remote Controller and mobile device connection stability."
Hmm.... better late than never - thanks DJI
No matter how much DJI enhance connection stability, it's not going to help when you fly around a few thousand tons of rock that blocks your signal.
As to finding another machine - after being burned; Im not in the market for another drone - reliability needs to mature
Regardless of the cause of the loss of signal, the last few seconds of the video tell the whole story.
If the operator had set the RTH height to a level that would clear the obstacles he was flying around, there would have been no crash.
The Phantom performed exactly as it was programmed to.
It was poor airmanship that flew it straight into the top of that ridge.
DJI do their best to make a reliable quadcopter.
The feature they can't control is the one holding the remote.
 
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Ok... must have been a moment of madness on my part - got dizzy; masochist instinct kicked in and decided to go full throttle towards the cliff - where the drone lost signal and performed a RTH. Oh well... live and learn
 

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