mercillus said:
It is such a mystery. I'm currently on my 102nd flight and every now and then I wonder, could this be the flight that doesn't end in front of me??? You just don't know.
FlyAway Phobia .... spoils the fun ...
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It is such a mystery. I'm currently on my 102nd flight and every now and then I wonder, could this be the flight that doesn't end in front of me??? You just don't know.
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You know, I didn't fly all week. I flew for a bit on Monday morning, and that was it. Mostly wind, but today was a perfect day, and I couldn't bring myself todo it.
I keep thinking about this thread.
When the Phantom goes away the next time, with it goes $100 in props,. $200 in gimbal, another $400 in Camera, and about $60 in receiver - the DX8 receiver. So, I guess that's a cool $1400, about what I lost last time.
I'm already planning the next bird. Most likely a DJI 550 with a NAZA.
I do wonder if the Blade unit will be good, and if it will produce decent video quality. That would be nice. It would be cheaper too, but....
It's funny, but the fly away issue is what's stopping me from ordering the Fatshark or other FPV system. It's just another couple of hundred dollars to watch go bye by.
It would be really nice if DJI would talk about this issue so we can feel better about flying.
D
I keep thinking about this thread.
When the Phantom goes away the next time, with it goes $100 in props,. $200 in gimbal, another $400 in Camera, and about $60 in receiver - the DX8 receiver. So, I guess that's a cool $1400, about what I lost last time.
I'm already planning the next bird. Most likely a DJI 550 with a NAZA.
I do wonder if the Blade unit will be good, and if it will produce decent video quality. That would be nice. It would be cheaper too, but....
It's funny, but the fly away issue is what's stopping me from ordering the Fatshark or other FPV system. It's just another couple of hundred dollars to watch go bye by.
It would be really nice if DJI would talk about this issue so we can feel better about flying.
D
Whatever RC gear you fly there is always a chance to lose it all. If your worried about a supposed flyaway issue with the Phantom and NAZA which scares you off flying, why would you even look at another larger and more expensive bit of kit with a NAZA?
There are other options and some rely much less on automated systems then the NAZA which is what gets people into trouble more then anything as they take it for granted and put 100% faith in such systems. Mostly people that only fly in GPS modes and use IOC for basic flying because they haven't learned the skills to maintain orientation and fly without gps assistance. GPS is the least reliable system on the phantom and any other device flying without clear line of sight to satellites which means no mountains buildings or trees that may block the visibility of some satellites. If you cant fly at the range your at I atti mode whilst in GPS or IOC then what will you do if the GPS signal becomes weak and it reverts to atti mode. There may be some wind and you will need to see orientation to properly maintain control but if you dont know how to do this it will simply flyaway. If GPS or compass is playing up or home wasn't set properly prior to flight rth wont save you.
The way I see it is any issues with GPS or IOC are 100% pilot error for the simple fact they are relying on a system so prone to failure as it relies solely on GPS data and an electric compass that can easily be thrown out of whack.
Then you have other variables with a low powered cheap radio running at a very noisy 2.4ghz spectrum that in some areas is likely to cause issues. Then add to this other fpv gear and many people also looking for the cheapest untested setups more likely to cause further radio I interference. These same noisy locations are also prone to having poor gps reception so flying in such areas is again 100% pilot error. There are cases outside of this that have caused loss of control but the percentage is so small and nobody has yet to pinpoint any such issues that show every single DJI phantom will have this same issue. You can spend top dollar on a more reliable system but its still not failure proof but people spending that sort of money will likely have more skill by then and also fly more within their limits as you don't want to be losing 20k+ in gear.
DJI cant fix user error or an issue that is not repeatable or identifiable, maybe they should require a license test to be passed prior to purchase as that is the only way to see if the pilot is competent along with having designated safe zones to fly. I think its much easier just for users to take some responsibly for their actions and learn to fly slowly and properly, understand all possible risks and then accept as much risk as you want or only fly in ways that minimize as much risk as possible. As soon as you plug in the battery something could go wrong and if you cant accept that maybe you need to look at another hobby sorry to say.
There are other options and some rely much less on automated systems then the NAZA which is what gets people into trouble more then anything as they take it for granted and put 100% faith in such systems. Mostly people that only fly in GPS modes and use IOC for basic flying because they haven't learned the skills to maintain orientation and fly without gps assistance. GPS is the least reliable system on the phantom and any other device flying without clear line of sight to satellites which means no mountains buildings or trees that may block the visibility of some satellites. If you cant fly at the range your at I atti mode whilst in GPS or IOC then what will you do if the GPS signal becomes weak and it reverts to atti mode. There may be some wind and you will need to see orientation to properly maintain control but if you dont know how to do this it will simply flyaway. If GPS or compass is playing up or home wasn't set properly prior to flight rth wont save you.
The way I see it is any issues with GPS or IOC are 100% pilot error for the simple fact they are relying on a system so prone to failure as it relies solely on GPS data and an electric compass that can easily be thrown out of whack.
Then you have other variables with a low powered cheap radio running at a very noisy 2.4ghz spectrum that in some areas is likely to cause issues. Then add to this other fpv gear and many people also looking for the cheapest untested setups more likely to cause further radio I interference. These same noisy locations are also prone to having poor gps reception so flying in such areas is again 100% pilot error. There are cases outside of this that have caused loss of control but the percentage is so small and nobody has yet to pinpoint any such issues that show every single DJI phantom will have this same issue. You can spend top dollar on a more reliable system but its still not failure proof but people spending that sort of money will likely have more skill by then and also fly more within their limits as you don't want to be losing 20k+ in gear.
DJI cant fix user error or an issue that is not repeatable or identifiable, maybe they should require a license test to be passed prior to purchase as that is the only way to see if the pilot is competent along with having designated safe zones to fly. I think its much easier just for users to take some responsibly for their actions and learn to fly slowly and properly, understand all possible risks and then accept as much risk as you want or only fly in ways that minimize as much risk as possible. As soon as you plug in the battery something could go wrong and if you cant accept that maybe you need to look at another hobby sorry to say.
Without going through 100s of pages relating to fly aways, has it been the issue it once was back in the early firmware editions? My general impression after reading these threads for a few months is the number of people reporting a fly away seems to have decreased. Has new firmware improved what used to seem common? Or are more people just more aware of the importance of recording the home position etc. People say scary things about GPS mode but I prefer it and rarely fly without it. Before I take off, I ensure I have no red lights and sit on the ground with the motors spinning for 10 seconds. I have never had an issue in what must be approaching 200 flights. When was the last time someone reported a fly away after being sure they did the correct pre flight sequence?
I have flown my Phantom everyday for the last 3 months. In GPS mode and atti. I have yet to fly manual.
Though I have huge issues with the lack of communication between DJI and its customers along with the Chinese to English translations I have yet to have any issues other than pilot errors. The FW updates are ridiculously hard and frustrating but all in all the Phantom is a technological master piece for a RC it's size and out of the box capabilities.
Being a hot dog, loosing orientation, and loading it down with every option in the book will cause it to do crazy things.
Living on the edge has its perils.
E
PS. If you see red don't fly it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Though I have huge issues with the lack of communication between DJI and its customers along with the Chinese to English translations I have yet to have any issues other than pilot errors. The FW updates are ridiculously hard and frustrating but all in all the Phantom is a technological master piece for a RC it's size and out of the box capabilities.
Being a hot dog, loosing orientation, and loading it down with every option in the book will cause it to do crazy things.
Living on the edge has its perils.
E
PS. If you see red don't fly it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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martcerv said:
I can always count on Martcerv to jump on me anytime I post. Thanks for your consistency there my friend. If you are nothing else, you are consistent.
If you are really prepared to stand behind your statement that the flyaway issue is not identifiable, then you have NOT read anything about the issues people are having. I am not the only person to have one. You also hang on the RCGroups thread, and there are hundreds of reports there.
Now to repeatable. No, I can't tell you how to repeat this. BUT..... I'm willing to bet that DJI, who knows their programming and the technology inside their products better than I do have read and examined so many reports that they know what the cause is. I believe that, and I also believe they simply can't fix it. So it's easier to not acknowledge it, pretend it doesn't exist and make changes to their new products to minimize or eliminate the issue.
People use GPS and IOC BECAUSE DJI SPENDS SO MUCH TIME TELLING US TO DO SO.
Surely you have seen their videos, promotion, web site. If this is the reason for the flyaways as you seem to firmly believe (that or pilot error) then it's time to tell us NOT to use this technology. Of course, they wouldn't sell anywhere near as many, and they wouldn't make anywhere near as much money, but they would satisfy guys like you who have consumed all the DJI Kool Aid.
Why is it so hard to believe there is an issue with the Phantom? Why is it OK to blame the hundreds, or thousands of users who have had this happen even though they claim to have done the preflight properly, in many cases have more flight time than you do.
Operator error is the cause according to guys like you who have not had a flyaway. I don't wish a flyaway on you or anyone else for that matter, but you will change your tune the moment it does happen to you.
Now, I'm going flying.
Bye
Well you are the main person here pushing your flyaway story and demanding DJI fix the issue and give you answers yet you bought a second Phantom? and now considering a larger more expensive setup using the exact same DJI Naza controller you claim is not useable due to flyaway issues. 
I cant say your consistent as your all over the place and also so worried about flyaway's and at the same time in search of the cheapest possible FPV setup. This easily can effect your ability to maintain control over your quad, with cheap untested radio components that can and very likely will interfere with your radio signal.
Here is a piece from the DJI Naza M manual referring to IOC Home lock mode.
DJI Flowchart indicating GPS switching to ATTI if less then 6 satellites.
If anyone doesnt know how GPS works and the kind of locations where it is likely to struggle to maintain a good signal then they will get themselves in trouble expecting it to work perfectly everywhere when it wont. The Phantom will revert to ATTI mode and also end home lock mode after loosing a good GPS lock. This means flying in these modes in such areas where its likely to lose lock and rely on these modes will cause you issues.
If you think you are in GPS mode and worse still home lock mode and it reverts to ATTI mode the controls will change drastically, you can easily lose orientation and it will fly differently to how you expect AKA "flyway". They may then panic and force failsafe which also wont work properly without a good GPS lock and does not come with a 100% guarantee so dont rely on it but it will still likely save your phantom if needed but not always with many variables.
These modes are great additions and can help you do some things that may be tricky in other modes, people need to be very aware of the limitation's of the GPS receiver and flying location if they rely entirely on these modes. IF anyone is flying in such an area and isnt capable of flying comfortably in ATTI mode they will very easily lose control and orientation which will cause what many see as a flyaway but I would see as pilot error.
I dont drink any DJI coolaid, but if thats what you think everyone must do if they don't agree with you then so be it, no big deal to me just dont try and scare people off flying all together. If people learn what they should avoid I think it will help them much more then people that deny any responsibility to them crashing, losing orientation or radio signal due at least partially to their own errors which could have been avoided and are in no way DJI's responsibility.
I cant say your consistent as your all over the place and also so worried about flyaway's and at the same time in search of the cheapest possible FPV setup. This easily can effect your ability to maintain control over your quad, with cheap untested radio components that can and very likely will interfere with your radio signal.
Here is a piece from the DJI Naza M manual referring to IOC Home lock mode.
DJI Flowchart indicating GPS switching to ATTI if less then 6 satellites.
If anyone doesnt know how GPS works and the kind of locations where it is likely to struggle to maintain a good signal then they will get themselves in trouble expecting it to work perfectly everywhere when it wont. The Phantom will revert to ATTI mode and also end home lock mode after loosing a good GPS lock. This means flying in these modes in such areas where its likely to lose lock and rely on these modes will cause you issues.
If you think you are in GPS mode and worse still home lock mode and it reverts to ATTI mode the controls will change drastically, you can easily lose orientation and it will fly differently to how you expect AKA "flyway". They may then panic and force failsafe which also wont work properly without a good GPS lock and does not come with a 100% guarantee so dont rely on it but it will still likely save your phantom if needed but not always with many variables.
These modes are great additions and can help you do some things that may be tricky in other modes, people need to be very aware of the limitation's of the GPS receiver and flying location if they rely entirely on these modes. IF anyone is flying in such an area and isnt capable of flying comfortably in ATTI mode they will very easily lose control and orientation which will cause what many see as a flyaway but I would see as pilot error.
I dont drink any DJI coolaid, but if thats what you think everyone must do if they don't agree with you then so be it, no big deal to me just dont try and scare people off flying all together. If people learn what they should avoid I think it will help them much more then people that deny any responsibility to them crashing, losing orientation or radio signal due at least partially to their own errors which could have been avoided and are in no way DJI's responsibility.
Read the manuals again, 3rd time. Watched the videos again, 3rd time. Maybe more, kinda lost track. Its becoming a little clearer. Still haven't ordered the Phantom yet but plan to when I arrive home. Even with all the talk about "flyaway" I'll continue to study the videos and manuals. Not sure I'll be able to do the computer stuff like the assistant software thing but I'll try. The hobby shop guy is going to turn on the IOC for me.
Tom
Tom
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martcerv said:Well you are the main person here pushing your flyaway story and demanding DJI fix the issue and give you answers yet you bought a second Phantom? and now considering a larger more expensive setup using the exact same DJI Naza controller you claim is not useable due to flyaway issues.
I cant say your consistent as your all over the place and also so worried about flyaway's and at the same time in search of the cheapest possible FPV setup. This easily can effect your ability to maintain control over your quad, with cheap untested radio components that can and very likely will interfere with your radio signal.
Here is a piece from the DJI Naza M manual referring to IOC Home lock mode.
DJI Flowchart indicating GPS switching to ATTI if less then 6 satellites.
If anyone doesnt know how GPS works and the kind of locations where it is likely to struggle to maintain a good signal then they will get themselves in trouble expecting it to work perfectly everywhere when it wont. The Phantom will revert to ATTI mode and also end home lock mode after loosing a good GPS lock. This means flying in these modes in such areas where its likely to lose lock and rely on these modes will cause you issues.
If you think you are in GPS mode and worse still home lock mode and it reverts to ATTI mode the controls will change drastically, you can easily lose orientation and it will fly differently to how you expect AKA "flyway". They may then panic and force failsafe which also wont work properly without a good GPS lock and does not come with a 100% guarantee so dont rely on it but it will still likely save your phantom if needed but not always with many variables.
These modes are great additions and can help you do some things that may be tricky in other modes, people need to be very aware of the limitation's of the GPS receiver and flying location if they rely entirely on these modes. IF anyone is flying in such an area and isnt capable of flying comfortably in ATTI mode they will very easily lose control and orientation which will cause what many see as a flyaway but I would see as pilot error.
I dont drink any DJI coolaid, but if thats what you think everyone must do if they don't agree with you then so be it, no big deal to me just dont try and scare people off flying all together. If people learn what they should avoid I think it will help them much more then people that deny any responsibility to them crashing, losing orientation or radio signal due at least partially to their own errors which could have been avoided and are in no way DJI's responsibility.
Martcerv,
You are totally right. I am the only guy who
1. Had a fly away
2. Complained about it
3. And it was all my fault.
Martcerv, tell you what. I'll stop posting anything. Perhaps that will make you happy. My new thing is all about making you happy.
I'm now 100% certain I was a happier, more content Phantom owner BEFORE I started to read and post to these forums.
All I tried to do was publicize something that in my view - NOT YOURS - mine alone apparently - is a problem with the DJI software, or design.
I was sure I had read that other people were having problems too, but, I guess I was wrong there also. Thanks for correcting me.
What's good about these forums, is there are always guys like you who will tell me I am wrong, and it was my own error. It's just what a guy like me needs. To be constantly told I am wrong.
The comment about the post I made regarding an inexpensive FPV was perfect. First, I was jumped on at another forum for buying a ready made solution - it's called The DJI Phantom - then, when I try and get some information about building my own FPV, I get jumped on about trying to do it myself? WOW - That's great.
Like I said, the only thing about posting on these forums is the consistency of the inconsistent advice!
Good luck fellow pilots. I hope your Phantoms stay in the air, where they are supposed to. I hope like Martcev believes, I am the only one who has experienced a flyaway, and it was all my fault.
I'm gone.
Good Luck
D
Cameraguy you can post whatever you like but simply understand that not everyone will agree with you. Not everyone agrees with me and Im fine with that as I just post my views and opinions as do you.
If you make such claims and look for answers to your issues, but then don't like the majority of answers that's just too bad and you either need to accept it or stop posting looking for answers.
If you make such claims and look for answers to your issues, but then don't like the majority of answers that's just too bad and you either need to accept it or stop posting looking for answers.
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martcerv said:Cameraguy you can post whatever you like but simply understand that not everyone will agree with you. Not everyone agrees with me and Im fine with that as I just post my views and opinions as do you.
If you make such claims and look for answers to your issues, but then don't like the majority of answers that's just too bad and you either need to accept it or stop posting looking for answers.
FOR THE RECORD.....
Yesterday, I removed all my posts on this subject. Obviously, Adam decided to re-instate them. I also asked to be deleted from the community. That didn't happen either.
I don't know what" If you make such claims" means.
I had 2 flyaways. I showed one on YouTube, I have taken crap for that since I posted it 30 days ago. It's not a claim. It's a fact. It happened. It has happened to others. It's been documented all over the internet. So some nobody called Martcerv says it isn't true, and it becomes not true? Give me a F...ing break.
Since then, I have been constantly chased across the internet where ever I post what I happened, or my video to attack me personally. Yes, I'm feeling somewhat attacked.
The problem with online conversation, is most of the time it is anonymous. So, Martcerv, could be a 15 year old with a rich daddy, or a flight genius. We'll never know.
Oh, and Martcerv, telling me I am allowed to post my opinions, just so a..holes like you can attack - gee, I really appreciate it. I didn't think you had that God Like Power to determine what I get to do.
You know what, I regret trying to help. That's what I started out trying to do was to help shed some light on an obvious issue. Obvious to me, and the other people it happened to.
What I learned is that I guess I don't have a tough enough skin to participate in these little communities of people who for the most part just want to bully others. What I learned is NOT to try and be helpful.
You need not reply. I won't read it. I don't care.
I'm otta here.
I have only replied to you here on this forum, I have not chased you anywhere and I only use the one screen name on this forum and any other forums plus my yt channel. I have not attacked you personally but you call me an A hole so good on you as it shows what sort of person you are but I wont stoop down to your level. I think you may find that many different people have simply come to the same conclusion given your evidence and are just giving their opinion. You dont seem to like that as everyone else is wrong because if they dont agree with your conclusion they are drinking DJI coolaid and are A holes :lol:
I have no idea how I bullied you :?: just stated the simple facts that your yt video and post here regarding your flyaway was far from conclusive and showed pilot error on your part along with some signal interference. You were the one demanding DJI do something as if your all mighty and they owe you something even though you haven't shown how they are at fault and cant rule out user error. You then push this all over the net as I did read the thread on RC groups but have never made a single post on that forum but the majority of people all see it in much the same way as me. You pushed your same story all over this forum even though it was far from a conclusive flyaway and many mistakes made on your part.
I have no agenda like you have because your upset you lost a phantom in a lake and then crashed another, you came here claiming DJI are at fault and not willing to address your flyaway issues and all others. Your case shows no clear fault on the part of DJI and your first one in the lake you dont say much about. Basically people like you are scaring off people from the hobby, sure there are risks but the user has much more control over things then you seem to have or believe that we have and once in the air any loses or crashes are not your responsibility but that of DJI.
Flying anything is 100% your responsibility so dont go blaming others for your mistakes, accept your mistakes unless you have genuine proof that you did everything correct and all your issues are due to DJI. Millions of people fly them without issues and some have multiple "flyaway's" and this is like being hit by lightning twice. Highly unlikely that you arent part of the reason for both so please just accept it for what it is.
I have no idea how I bullied you :?: just stated the simple facts that your yt video and post here regarding your flyaway was far from conclusive and showed pilot error on your part along with some signal interference. You were the one demanding DJI do something as if your all mighty and they owe you something even though you haven't shown how they are at fault and cant rule out user error. You then push this all over the net as I did read the thread on RC groups but have never made a single post on that forum but the majority of people all see it in much the same way as me. You pushed your same story all over this forum even though it was far from a conclusive flyaway and many mistakes made on your part.
I have no agenda like you have because your upset you lost a phantom in a lake and then crashed another, you came here claiming DJI are at fault and not willing to address your flyaway issues and all others. Your case shows no clear fault on the part of DJI and your first one in the lake you dont say much about. Basically people like you are scaring off people from the hobby, sure there are risks but the user has much more control over things then you seem to have or believe that we have and once in the air any loses or crashes are not your responsibility but that of DJI.
Flying anything is 100% your responsibility so dont go blaming others for your mistakes, accept your mistakes unless you have genuine proof that you did everything correct and all your issues are due to DJI. Millions of people fly them without issues and some have multiple "flyaway's" and this is like being hit by lightning twice. Highly unlikely that you arent part of the reason for both so please just accept it for what it is.
Wow whatever, cameraguy. Saw your flyaway video, read your story, read your overly defensive posts. Dude, it's your fault. There is no conclusive evidence to show it was DJI's fault.
I've had a flyaway and I've posted about it here before. It was my fault entirely. If I wasn't technically sound enough to do my own investigation on what happened, I would have blamed DJI and started trying to convince people across the internet that it was DJI's fault. Just as you are doing now.
The phantom seems to have a lot of issues with flyaway and user error. More than any other multirotor, whether DIY or RTF. Why is this? Because it's a huge sales success, that's why. With more users, you get more failures reported. From a larger pool, you get a larger sample. It really is that simple.
But the naza has been around much longer than the phantom, so why haven't the flyaway issues with the naza been as prevalent before as it is now? Because before the phantom, there was no naza equipped RTF multi. All came as a kit, you needed RC knowledge and skill to build and fly them. Thus when things went wrong with the naza before the phantom, the users were more experienced and usually were able to accept that it was mostly down to user error. I hate to say it, but most phantom owners are complete and utter noobs when it comes to the RC hobby in general. In addition to the complete noobs, a lot of "pro" photographers who have never flown or built an RC helicopter in their life are also flying the phantom. Things WILL go wrong.
Flying RCs go up and will come down.... sometimes hard. Accept it and move on. Or find another hobby.
I've had a flyaway and I've posted about it here before. It was my fault entirely. If I wasn't technically sound enough to do my own investigation on what happened, I would have blamed DJI and started trying to convince people across the internet that it was DJI's fault. Just as you are doing now.
The phantom seems to have a lot of issues with flyaway and user error. More than any other multirotor, whether DIY or RTF. Why is this? Because it's a huge sales success, that's why. With more users, you get more failures reported. From a larger pool, you get a larger sample. It really is that simple.
But the naza has been around much longer than the phantom, so why haven't the flyaway issues with the naza been as prevalent before as it is now? Because before the phantom, there was no naza equipped RTF multi. All came as a kit, you needed RC knowledge and skill to build and fly them. Thus when things went wrong with the naza before the phantom, the users were more experienced and usually were able to accept that it was mostly down to user error. I hate to say it, but most phantom owners are complete and utter noobs when it comes to the RC hobby in general. In addition to the complete noobs, a lot of "pro" photographers who have never flown or built an RC helicopter in their life are also flying the phantom. Things WILL go wrong.
Flying RCs go up and will come down.... sometimes hard. Accept it and move on. Or find another hobby.
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jackhyde said:
You needed to post this twice, and almost 3 weeks after the subject was pretty much talked to death?
Do you read about other peoples unexplained issues? I'm tired of people just posting to kick someone while they are down. Look around. Others are having trouble. Prop nuts are breaking on some Phantoms. Other, very experienced pilots are complaining of loosing control.
You have 11 posts. How about you read and learn a little before you decide to jump on a bandwagon that has long departed town.
You are lonely I take it. Sorry about that.
D
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