FAA Registration Rules Announced NOW

Meta4 · Dec 17, 2015

Carl Dickinson said:
Heck, your all talking about the FAA registration of our drones and I can't find the form to fill out for this. I've checked the gov. sites but can't find the form itself. Can anyone help?

No-one can find it .
They aren't opening for business until December 21, 2015.

Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Registration

Carl Dickinson · Dec 17, 2015

Thanks, Meta4, I didn't think I was crazy for not finding it

Meta4 · Dec 17, 2015

aka1ceman said:
Its sad because many have seen this happen, time and time again, given you MANY examples ... .And since many have given you example after example ... You've been given multiple examples of other industries where this HAS came to pass, and has happened. Just because you deny it exists, doesn't mean that its not there.

aka .. discussing with you is more than difficult because it's entering a fact-free zone.
What I have been given time and time again, is examples of alleged reductions in your flying freedom perpetrated by DJI - not what I was asking for here.
And I was asking here because I was totally unaware of a case where registration of anything led to confiscation - something that has never been pointed out.
But I've done my own searching and found what you would say if you were to provide an example.
I've read some confected cases all coming from a particular area, discussion of which would be quite off topic and contrary to community guidelines.
It seems to me that registration leads to confiscation is a slogan used to promote fear in those gullible enough to accept it, rather than a fact.

Meta4 · Dec 17, 2015

aka1ceman said:
And I can keep dropping pencils to show you that gravity exists, meanwhile you still sit and argue well I don't see it.

Thanks for that aka ... it's as irrelevant as most of your trolling.
I'm not taking the bait any more.

snerd · Dec 17, 2015

I'm in just the right mood tonight to point out that some of you newer members seem unable to see the "Moderator" signage on certain posters here. It would behoove you to take that into consideration before beating a dead horse, and just generally showing no respect for a forum Moderator. Or to keep calling them out. I remember an old saying.................. let sleeping dogs lie. Or............... don't keep poking a sleeping bear. Like it or not, there has to be a cohesion, a hierarchy if you will, to keep things running smooth. These guys do a bangup job, and i'm making it personal! Get off their cases!!

Wibble · Dec 17, 2015

barefootbeachcombing said:
Read more deeply.

Q. Is there a citizenship requirement?

A. Only United States citizens can register their small UAS. The certificate serves as a certificate of ownership for non-citizens, not a registration certificate.

So what does that mean in English? I could still be prosecuted for being unregistered? Or is it typical knee jerk nonsense that hasnt been thought through properly?

aka1ceman · Dec 17, 2015

snerd said:
I'm in just the right mood tonight to point out that some of you newer members seem unable to see the "Moderator" signage on certain posters here. It would behoove you to take that into consideration before beating a dead horse, and just generally showing no respect for a forum Moderator. Or to keep calling them out. I remember an old saying.................. let sleeping dogs lie. Or............... don't keep poking a sleeping bear. Like it or not, there has to be a cohesion, a hierarchy if you will, to keep things running smooth. These guys do a bangup job, and i'm making it personal! Get off their cases!!

Would it be poking a bear, if I had the same viewpoint as he? I've SAT and watched people in this forum not only stir the pot but break the stick off in it, and nothing was said because it was the same viewpoint. I agree there should be some form of hierarchy, but is it right for those in power to stir the pot to make it stink? It would be in the best interest of the sport to have a mod that is neutral.

But back to the point, as one poster mentioned earlier united we stand, divided we fall. And we can even come together in a forum. What makes you think we could come together enough to make positive change as a whole?
I argue my point not to be argumentative but because I enjoy the sport. As I have been associated with other sports where this has happened that ARE Constitutionally protected, that didn't stop the restrictions/ law suits/ aggravation from coming. I've been behind the gov't doors and sadly to say watched this happen time and time again from "inside" DC and didn't do anything about it. (As I type this, I sit 2 blocks from that wonderful FAA building

) I'm passionate because of the sport, but honestly if they want to "punish me" for that then so be it. Through out this while being attacked, I have not been disrespectful. All thought I wanted to many times. Not because I dislike anyone, but because of blatant blindness to what's going on. Silencing me will not hurt me, (I will go on and do my thing)nor help "their" situation yrs from now and are complaining on how" it's not like it used to be" or "when I was your age I used to...."

So I say do what you have to for the sport of UAV, not whether you agree or disagree.

aka1ceman · Dec 17, 2015

Meta4 said:
It's amazing that you want a cast iron guarantee for reasonable comment but can't accept skepticism for the most unlikely crazy fear fanatasies.
No-one can convince someone that lives their life in irrational fear of what might happen.

Instead of going off with wild what-if or but-maybe scenarios, how about reading the document.
It plainly says what it is and what it's for.
Just because someone that didn't read it, used a paragraph out of context to fuel your paranoia doesn't mean he's at all correct.

How about that I have many reasons to believe more. The other gentleman gave you plenty of examples. I could repeat them as well. I have some but I can not discuss them on here due to myself working in a bunch of 3 letter buildings in and around DC.Please don't take it for granted that every newbie here on the forum is an inexperienced 13 yr old. Just the contrary.
"...and that is all I have to say about that"- Forest Gump

Meta4 · Dec 17, 2015

WingedRyno said:
Let me try to help give you some examples.
1) prohibition of alcohol ...
2) same for drugs like marijuana, ...
3) semi-auto rifles of various varieties including the AR-15 have been banned in several States
I find it interesting how registration and confiscation is such an unfamiliar topic. It's pretty standard, it seems to me.

Thanks Ryno ...
But that's three cases of things that were banned and then confiscated.
I can't remember cases of bootleggers registering their hooch or stoners registering their stash.
I'm still looking for just one case of registration of anything that was followed by confiscation.
It's a catchy slogan that seems to have really caught on in a certain circle but I'm not convinced there is any truth in it.

WingedRyno said:
If nobody knows what will happen, then why do some feel so comfortable belittling others by calling their thought process "paranoia?"

Sorry for anyone that feels it's belittling to describe some of the ideas that have come out here that way.
But if you engage in a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion - that's paranoia.
Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat.
Making false accusations and the general distrust of others also frequently accompany paranoia.
For example, an incident most people would view as an accident or coincidence, a paranoid person might believe it was intentional.

Meta4 · Dec 17, 2015

Wibble said:
So what does that mean in English? I could still be prosecuted for being unregistered?

Because existing laws don't permit the FAA registering foreign owned aircraft, they can't register recreational drones owned by foreigners.
(They stick to that but seem to have skipped over the concept of not making laws for model aircraft)
So they won't register a visitor's drone - but the visitor can apply through the same process and get a certificate which will be virtually the same but fullfil their desire to comply with the technicalities of some pre-existing law.

So ... you apply, get your certificate and even a refund of your $5 and be in compliance with their new regulation.

Wibble said:
Or is it typical knee jerk nonsense that hasnt been thought through properly?

That describes the FAA's process this time pretty well.

Meta4 · Dec 17, 2015

WingedRyno said:
Are you suggesting that it's a bad idea to disagree with a moderator when a moderator weighs in substantively in a topic discussion? Are you suggesting that the opinions of moderators and claims of moderators, in topics that have nothing to do with their role as moderators, should not be challenged or controverted with other opinions?

I've never seen a rule that states everyone has to agree - and it would be a very boring forum that did.
I don't think that was what Snerd meant.

AlexSP · Dec 17, 2015

Wow, lots going on here. Indeed a difficult time but things will settle down eventually. The pendulum is swinging heavily now, but it will reach a more balanced point once information spreads out and drones reach critical mass then back off, general interest will fade and move on to other topics as well. Or so I think.

It's always like that with new technology, people/media/politicians/government acting irrationally and extremely, passion prevailing over reason most of the time. Living in society is complex, and whatever adds to this complexity also brings the need for additional regulations. Like it or not, we must admit drones add quite a bit of new factors to the "social equation" regarding safety, privacy and more.

I have a registered car and to drive it I need to be registered/licenced because driving can cause damage and there are so many aspects involved with this apparently simple and common activity. In order to allow for registration, both car and driver must comply to a lot of rules. Drivers need instruction undergo test and so on. It is now a quite simple and common activity, but it wasn't once and a process brought us to this point. I guess it's the same with drones.

I would love to just fly my P3 everywhere I wanted without any hassle. But admiting every citizen has the same right and does the same it will be an unpractical mess, that is for sure. Drones can cause damage, they're fun and not so hard to fly but still, no one wants a drone crashing on his/her car, property, pets or family/friends. And I'm sure no one wants drones crashing planes and copters either. I love flying but I don't want to be on either side in any of those situations!

Accidents are impossible to avoid completely, but some preventive measures and safeguards can help diminish probabilities and limit consequences. So yes I think action must be taken in order to organise drones, that is the cost of living in society. Freedom is good but not without obligations, there's just too much involved, for good and bad.

I'm in favour of mandatory instruction just like it is needed to drive a car. There must be a learning curve, these new MRs are unlike RC aircrafts which complexity and cost turns it into an easy to control niche so my opinion is that some basic professional instruction before venturing into the air is important to fly above a certain level of distance, altitude, etc.

Also I wouldn't mind registering my drone and undergoing a test or instruction to get habilitation, particularly if that would allow me to fly in more places and with more freedom, without inspiring fear or defiance or any negative feelings or actions from people or authorities. Just like when driving my car. Regulation and registration have a bad (or more) side, but it also adds legitimacy and rights, at least to good users.

I don't think it will lead to ban, quite the opposite it will help legitimate drones. Could be the other way around of curse, there's no way to know for sure so I guess we'll have to walk that path and see.

bbfpv · Dec 17, 2015

GadgetGuy said:
Any 3rd party could sequentially enter every reg# and compile a reverse lookup database of drone registrants' names and addresses for drone haters to access for a fee. There is no security to prevent that.

Um, yes there is. Basic web server security protocols will ban the IP of any machine that consecutively accesses the page X number of times / time frame. This is to thwart DoS attacks at the very least. Given average web latency (network, page loads, etc) let's say you can load the FAA search page once every 5 seconds (without getting flagged and banned). Now lets assume the registration number is a 10 digit alphanumeric case-insensitive string (to make the math easy). That would be 36^10 registration number possibilities, or 360 billion. 360 billion * 5 seconds per try is 18 trillion seconds. There are 31,557,600 seconds in a year, so a single hacker trying to find everyone in the database and sell the information would have to wait 570385 years to sell his list. Even if there were 10000 computers trying the same thing in parallel it would take 5.7 years to crack the whole thing. In other words, the only way this would every be possible is if someone hacked the DB and did the brute force hacking offline, and even then it would take 9-12 months. And that's not taking into account whether the hacked db salts the stored reg numbers. It also doesn't account for the fact that there will be new registrations being added and deleted every day, so that hacked db is just a snapshot of that particular day. In other words, highly unlikely if not impossible, and certainly not profitable for the hacking party.

MrTommy · Dec 17, 2015

GadgetGuy said:
Any regular involvement of the police while trying to concentrate on enjoying your innocent flying hobby is a hassle and a distraction. This new FAA registration requirement only gives the public more teeth to harass all drone flyers. If registered, they can expect you to prove it (even if not legally required of you, unless they are law enforcement). If you don't prove it, they'll complain that you are spying on the children nearby and call the police. Then, the police will investigate not only your registration, but also your spying on the children, and may seize your drone and camera for investigation by them, even if you are registered, and also pass the case along to the FAA, if you are not registered. Nothing good can come of this!

And then you go on the no-fly list, and can't buy a gun either. I'm not paranoid - I just don't trust the government for anything.

Let me see your 'papers'.
Ahem . . . . . .

GoodnNuff · Dec 17, 2015

It was a busy night for the paranoid wackadoodles.

Meanwhile: I bet he won't register either;
Caught on camera: thief steals drone from Bellevue store display

snicker..doodles.

aka1ceman · Dec 17, 2015

I know you dont want any reference to guns, but hear me out. If this can be done unwarranted in something that our 2nd Amendment protects, what do you think they are capable of when it comes to us "flying our toys" in "FAA controlled airspace"?

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, , I can apply for a protective order against you , even if it is not warranted, or verified, and you are innocent, officers will be at your door to confiscate every firearm you own to take every "registered" firearm you have here in the states. Even after you prove your innocence, it is still a long task in getting them back.

So now being forced to register our drones, do you not see the direct correlation? No, nobody has came to take away anyone's drone yet. But they didn't take away guns when I first started registering either. It took a few lawsuits, & a couple of idiots to do stupid stuff to get the ball rolling. I have found many lawsuits already regarding drones verses Neighbor, as well as many money hungry lawyers chomping at the bit.

GoodnNuff · Dec 17, 2015

202-267-6556

Direct number to the FAA - please call them and register your concerns, ask your questions, get informed.

GadgetGuy, you can ask them if you will be able to access anyone's registration number for your own nefarious deeds - since you so enjoy spreading that unfounded rumor.

Now, I wonder how many of you will actually call as opposed to posting your same fears ad nauseam here where they mean nothing.