Color mode & Dynamic Range

F3honda4me · Dec 11, 2016

David_Cambridge said:
Good plan. Note that my earlier remarks may be applicable only to the P3 4K. It appears that DJI changes stuff even using the same camera. What a mess.

The p4p and p3 4K don't have the same camera though.

Andrei V · Dec 12, 2016

yannick_c said:
Same thing but with +4ev. OK it's horrible, but there's more details

Interesting Yannick, but might what you're seeing not be explained by the fact that dcinelike is recording the same shadow detail at a higher IRE range than None? Try lifting the None +3ev and dcinelike +2ev (or such) and see if you don't get the exact same detail in the none footage.

Andrei V · Dec 12, 2016

Hmm.. one interesting test that hasn't been done yet would be to compare the P4P's dynamic range/shadow/highlight detail retention in the same scene in video (using whatever profile you'd like, but probably none at 0/0/0 would be a good starting point) against the dinamic range of a raw photo taken of the same scene using the same exposure. Perhaps the none profile already does a pretty good job of recording most/all the dynamic range the sensor can capture?

Dronefriend · Dec 12, 2016

Andrei V said:
Interesting Yannick, but might what you're seeing not be explained by the fact that dcinelike is recording the same shadow detail at a higher IRE range than None? Try lifting the None +3ev and dcinelike +2ev (or such) and see if you don't get the exact same detail in the none footage.

I think it's the codec, but I may be out of league here. It is after all a very compressed codec. We do not know the parameters involved either. The absolute blacks 0-5 IRE may not be that good in preserving information. In this case one should use Cinelike when shooting night scenes.

yannick_c · Dec 12, 2016

Andrei V said:
Hmm.. one interesting test that hasn't been done yet would be to compare the P4P's dynamic range/shadow/highlight detail retention in the same scene in video (using whatever profile you'd like, but probably none at 0/0/0 would be a good starting point) against the dinamic range of a raw photo taken of the same scene using the same exposure. Perhaps the none profile already does a pretty good job of recording most/all the dynamic range the sensor can capture?

Interesting test, will try that to compare the RAW picture dynamic range vs the video dynamic range.

soamz · Dec 12, 2016

So finally what ?

NONE or DLOG ?

I color grade everything using final cut pro and color grading pro.

Tomas Wangen · Dec 12, 2016

Dlog is broken.

None is fine. The jury is still out on dcinelike but it should be acceptable.

soamz said:
So finally what ?

NONE or DLOG ?

I color grade everything using final cut pro and color grading pro.

soamz · Dec 12, 2016

Okay so NONE for the complete flat look.

So, we are waiting for next firmware to fix the dLOG ?

Tomas Wangen · Dec 12, 2016

soamz said:
Okay so NONE for the complete flat look.

So, we are waiting for next firmware to fix the dLOG ?

It has been broken for many generations so do not hold your breath. Hoping for this though.

Tomas Wangen · Dec 12, 2016

soamz said:
Okay so NONE for the complete flat look.

So, we are waiting for next firmware to fix the dLOG ?

And just to be clear, none is not a flat look.

Dronefriend · Dec 12, 2016

soamz said:
Okay so NONE for the complete flat look.

So, we are waiting for next firmware to fix the dLOG ?

The "flat look" you are looking for is not available for Phantoms and has never been. I'm not sure you know why you want a flat look, as in high grade cinema camera footage, in the first place.

You think the flat look is good because it's pale. It's not. It's good because it allows for a wider range of highs and lows in 10bit material. The reasons for this wider range are not appliceable to the Phantom cameras, and no DJI cameras at all AFAIK. The D-Log is simply a gray, washed out image. With the only purpose to make you think it preserves information in critical areas, but it doesn't.

Roamer105 · Dec 12, 2016

David_Cambridge said:
You are correct. The Mavic camera is the same as the p3 4K, p3 pro, p4

Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots

Yes and no. All of them appear to have the same sensor and encoder, but the Mavic camera has a different lens system.

Roamer105 · Dec 12, 2016

phneeley said:
Thanks again Brian and Andrei for all the work you're sharing with the community. Much of it is admittedly way above my head

WRT DJI's useless implementation of D-log, are older generations of the Phantom (P3 models) affected, too, or is this something new with the P4P?

Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots

The problems with D-Log and other modes only relate to the current P4P camera/encoder firmware. Attached are a set of shots taken with a P3P (latest firmware: V1.10.90 - 11/30/16 - it actually changed the log modes!).
The first set of three shots show a high-contrast clip taken in None, D-Log and D-Cinelike on a P3P at 4K/23fps. No grading at all.
The next two shots show the same D-Log and D-Cinelike clips with the DJI supplied Phantom3-DLog2SRGB LUT applied. No grading in addition to LUT.

Tomas Wangen · Dec 12, 2016

Roamer105 said:
The problems with D-Log and other modes only relate to the current P4P camera/encoder firmware. Attached are a set of shots taken with a P3P (latest firmware: V1.10.90 - 11/30/16 - it actually changed the log modes!).
The first set of three shots show a high-contrast clip taken in None, D-Log and D-Cinelike on a P3P at 4K/23fps. No grading at all.
The next two shots show the same D-Log and D-Cinelike clips with the DJI supplied Phantom3-DLog2SRGB LUT applied. No grading in addition to LUT.

View attachment 70661 View attachment 70662 View attachment 70663 View attachment 70664 View attachment 70665

Applying a slight s curve and a hint of saturation to the dlog sample here brought me quite close to the none sample which indicates that this is indeed a working dlog implementation. Here's hoping dji updates the p4p shortly!

Roamer105 · Dec 12, 2016

Tomas Wangen said:
Applying a slight s curve and a hint of saturation to the dlog sample here brought me quite close to the none sample which indicates that this is indeed a working dlog implementation. Here's hoping dji updates the p4p shortly!

I sure hope they will take care of that problem soon. I am looking forward to get my P4P in a couple of months. The clarity, dynamic range and resolution of the P4P camera are amazing! 1400 lines of resolution versus about (barely) 1000 on the P3P aside from about 3-4 stops increase in dynamic range.