Beta Testers requested to fix Compass Issue

[ThatRobbGuy]

So I went out to fly tonight. Went through all my toutines, and according to iOS, had 10 sat's locked in.

Got in the air and immedeately noticed that the TBE was MUCH worse than it usually is. I wasn't just flying in circles... It seemed like it was flying under power. HUGE flat circles of 30 feet or better, and the J-hook was almost like it was getting input. It wasn't just drifting to the left, it was FLYING. It was really, REALLY bad tonight. :/

It'd be nice if they released this firmware update soon. Before the 3rd of August at the least... As it is, I'm trusting my Phantom less and less every day. I had to fly it into the ground today (no damage) because the thing hooked off and was headed right into a baseball backstop cage, and some kids playing beyond that.

 

[Pazz]

So I went out to fly tonight. Went through all my toutines, and according to iOS, had 10 sat's locked in.

Got in the air and immedeately noticed that the TBE was MUCH worse than it usually is. I wasn't just flying in circles... It seemed like it was flying under power. HUGE flat circles of 30 feet or better, and the J-hook was almost like it was getting input. It wasn't just drifting to the left, it was FLYING. It was really, REALLY bad tonight. :/

It'd be nice if they released this firmware update soon. Before the 3rd of August at the least... As it is, I'm trusting my Phantom less and less every day. I had to fly it into the ground today (no damage) because the thing hooked off and was headed right into a baseball backstop cage, and some kids playing beyond that.

Is one of your routines to do a on site compass calibration? (is it a valid calibration, not next to cars, fences, metal structures etc?) It would seem you are at a sports ground ( full of metal objects. light towers, stands etc)?????? I find if a calibrate in a clean area then TBE does not occur, if I don't TBE is a problem.

 

[ianwood]

Lights on a baseball field will have no influence on compass calibration. Either the source of magnetic energy needs to be very large or it needs to be very close to the Phantom to make a difference.

Here is some guidance for good and bad places to do the compass calibration:

High voltage power lines (large regional towers) may have a slight influence but your average street power lines won't be an issue. Other bad spots for compass calibration are: inside of a building or structure, next to cars, on a paved surface, on a sidewalk, on a beach (depending on sand metallic content), on a boat, within 10' of significant metal objects or high voltage machines, near significantly sized rock formations containing metallic material.

The best and safest option for calibrating your compass is an open patch of grass (say 20' x 20' or larger) that doesn't have any large metal pipes immediately underneath it. Remove metal objects as if you're at the airport going through security and place them a couple feet away. Even keep your TX unit a few feet away. Make sure everything on the Phantom that is on during flight is on. It is safest to wait until the Phantom completes GPS acquisition and records a home location before performing the calibration.

 

[JoeatBarrett]

While I have no control of the "Project Drunken Sparrow" social media campaign, I advise that you start it up again if DJI doesn't release the firmware by the end of next week. I am not longer able to do the job that I was tasked with by my organization and I look like an idiot for recommending the purchase of a Phantom 2. I'm here in Phoenix and have the TBE and J-hook issues. As I'm flying around our campus and dealing with buildings, I haven't felt comfortable flying since May. I realize there are those that have been waiting much longer than that, but I think that DJI needs to feel the pressure again. We initiated our purchase in mid-March, and at that time I had no idea this issue (or this forum) existed. I might have told them to hold off a few months if I knew then what I know now.

Does anyone else agree with me that August is a 'red line' that shouldn't be crossed, in terms of schedule? I know that it is in the 2nd beta and they are "refining it" but continuing to make people wait to reliably use their expensive products is going to make them look bad.

And, I have no problem in launching my own personally-funded social media campaign to make DJI listen to its users. I can't do my job at this point and am sick of waiting for DJI to get its act together. I have done software development on and off in my career and I understand the process, although it hasn't been for actual hardware devices, but software development and testing is still the same process. DJI needs to get its act together or it is going to face a major negative media campaign.

--Joe

 

[d4ddyo]

While I have no control of the "Project Drunken Sparrow" social media campaign, I advise that you start it up again if DJI doesn't release the firmware by the end of next week. I am not longer able to do the job that I was tasked with by my organization and I look like an idiot for recommending the purchase of a Phantom 2. I'm here in Phoenix and have the TBE and J-hook issues. As I'm flying around our campus and dealing with buildings, I haven't felt comfortable flying since May. I realize there are those that have been waiting much longer than that, but I think that DJI needs to feel the pressure again. We initiated our purchase in mid-March, and at that time I had no idea this issue (or this forum) existed. I might have told them to hold off a few months if I knew then what I know now.

Does anyone else agree with me that August is a 'red line' that shouldn't be crossed, in terms of schedule? I know that it is in the 2nd beta and they are "refining it" but continuing to make people wait to reliably use their expensive products is going to make them look bad.

And, I have no problem in launching my own personally-funded social media campaign to make DJI listen to its users. I can't do my job at this point and am sick of waiting for DJI to get its act together. I have done software development on and off in my career and I understand the process, although it hasn't been for actual hardware devices, but software development and testing is still the same process. DJI needs to get its act together or it is going to face a major negative media campaign.

--Joe

Sell it for a more stable craft. We crossed the red line long time ago

 

[ianwood]

I don't see why August 1st is a "red line".

At 10 degrees magnetic declination, you should still be able to fly. It may be a pain in the *** for precision flying for the first few minutes but you can still do it. There are people in NZ and Brazil who are still flying with 25 degrees of error which is waaaaaaay worse than what you're seeing.

I had my Phantom 10 stories up between buildings several times without the fix. It interfered with a bunch of shots but I still got plenty of good ones too. My point is stop holding your breath. As soon as you do, they will probably release the firmware.

d4ddyo, really? Just you because you've given up doesn't mean everyone else should. This forum is for Phantom owners.

 

[d4ddyo]

I don't see why August 1st is a "red line".

At 10 degrees magnetic declination, you should still be able to fly. It may be a pain in the *** for precision flying for the first few minutes but you can still do it. There are people in NZ and Brazil who are still flying with 25 degrees of error which is waaaaaaay worse than what you're seeing.

I had my Phantom 10 stories up between buildings several times without the fix. It interfered with a bunch of shots but I still got plenty of good ones too. My point is stop holding your breath. As soon as you do, they will probably release the firmware.

d4ddyo, really? Just you because you've given up doesn't mean everyone else should. This forum is for Phantom owners.

It's PhantomPilots.com DJI Phantom forums and help. I am still an owner... and until i physically transfer it... I am still an owner. That being said... nothing says you need to be an owner to be on this forum. If so I'd be happy to enter my serial number.

And really... it's a viable option that has been discussed. $1500+ invested... there are other options now available. Heck... I'll even build one for someone if they want with non-proprietary parts. Just because you choose not to use other options doesn't mean other people can't or shouldn't know about them.

And just because people are ok with it and flying with it in NZ and Brazil... doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve to have one that flies straight all the time. I know he has 10 to 15 min of good flight time or he can use ATT mode but he shouldn't.

I have a scratch built quad and tri... no gimbal that takes better video than a phantom 2 and costs 1/3 of the price of a phantom 2 tricked out. I'll be happy to send you a picture of my collection including a P2 waiting for a firmware release.

Sometimes I think you are bi-polar. Sometimes you write like you are on our side and sometimes you write like you work for DJI.

 

[ThatRobbGuy]

Here's my 2 bucks worth:

I am a self employed photographer, and stay-at-home dad. Photography is how I (barely) eke out enough of a living to break even. So, when I decided to pick up the DJI Phantom 2, it wasn't an impulse "hey, look, a cool new toy!". It was an investment, and a rather large one. Here in Canada, authorized DJI Vendors are few and far between, and after over 6 weeks of trying to find someone in Canada to deal with, I finally found an outfit in Vancouver called Flying Cameras. (www.flyingcameras.ca) I bought the Phantom 2, the Zenmuse gimbal and the Black Pearl 5.8 FPV system. THEN went out and bought a new GoPro Hero 3 + Black Edition. All told, I'm in about $2800 CDN. This is money I could ill afford, really, and it took a lot of convincing the wife that this would be a good investment for work. For what is essentially a single income family, since my wages as a photographer are mostly seasonal, and very feast or famine, almost 3 grand is a HUGE sum of money.

Now, no matter what way you cut it, the product is defective. And it was defective when sold. The fact that it was defective was WELL documented, and WELL known to DJI - AND their dealers.

Now, where my frustration comes in, is that I am using this product EXACTLY as DJI intended for it to be used. I haven't hacked it, put unauthorized software on it, I did nothing whatsoever that wasn't within DJI's from-factory specs. And still, I cannot use it as is, for the purposes it was designed and purchesed for. I'm happy the you, ianwood, have found a way to work with a defective product, but for me, flying around for 8-10 minutes BEFORE I can start using it properly and reliably is... well.. Unacceptable. That's like saying "Well, sure your car will go straight if you turn your wheel all the way to the left to compensate... It'll straighten out ofter 3/4's of your drive!". It's not safe, it's not reliable, and it's not practical.

I want DJI to stop ignoring the people who are loudly displeased with their defective product. In my case, I spend $1,300 on their product, and now they're refusing to even acknowledge their customers. And to be clear - while a fix would be nice, I'm not DEMANDING a fix. I'm DEMANDING some input, some recognition, some... ANYTHING from DJI. They're not answering their phone (metaphorically speaking) or communicating with us, and THAT'S not acceptable. I have a product that I cannot trust to do the job I bought it to do.

Now, as to the other questions from earlier about my compass calibrations... I fly (mostly) in a school field in front of my house. ( 49.152715, -123.953765 ) At it's narrowest width, it's 75 yards. And it's widest, 105 yards. And it's total length is 210 yards. I fly from dead center, and there is NO interference. There's a couple of residential powerlines, but those are 100 yards from me in any direction. I don't have my cell on me, and I'm nowhere near the TX or controller. The conditions are ideal. So, this is pure TBE and compass error. I have connected my Phantom to the PC and calibrated the controllers and all that - the TBE is still HUGE. Probably 30-50 feet, depending on the day. That is NOT acceptable, and I want DJI to do something about it, even if for now it's just a "hey guys, be patient! We know there's a problem, we're working on it and home to have it fixed by XX".

 

[d4ddyo]

flying around for 8-10 minutes BEFORE I can start using it properly and reliably is... well.. Unacceptable. That's like saying "Well, sure your car will go straight if you turn your wheel all the way to the left to compensate... It'll straighten out ofter 3/4's of your drive!". It's not safe, it's not reliable, and it's not practical...
... They're not answering their phone (metaphorically speaking) or communicating with us, and THAT'S not acceptable. I have a product that I cannot trust to do the job I bought it to do.

DJIs not answering their phone metaphorically and literally.

If you read through this entire post... that's what I been saying! When I have been ranting when they want the ranting to get DJI's attention... it's all good. Now I think everyone including Ianwood is so frustrated that they don't want to even hear complaints. They are ok sitting back and ... waiting. and waiting. and waiting. then one day it's... I told you so.

We all appreciate the hard work and time spent. We are all on the same side.

 

[varmint]

I want DJI to stop ignoring the people who are loudly displeased with their defective product. In my case, I spend $1,300 on their product, and now they're refusing to even acknowledge their customers. And to be clear - while a fix would be nice, I'm not DEMANDING a fix. I'm DEMANDING some input, some recognition, some... ANYTHING from DJI. They're not answering their phone (metaphorically speaking) or communicating with us, and THAT'S not acceptable. I have a product that I cannot trust to do the job I bought it to do.

+2. Well spoken commentary, and unfortunately DJI will never see it, nor care to look for it. It's been made very clear that all they're interested in as a company is fulfilling new sales. They have no interest in aftermarket support, parts supply, or anything post-sale. Their Facebook page is awash in self-promotion with not even a hint of acknowledgement about existing problems. They don't care to comment on what they're working on to address any of this, or when it may be made available. Everything is through a third-party if it exists at all.

I won't sell my Phantom, but I may put a bullet in it's head on YouTube.

 

[Pazz]

Lights on a baseball field will have no influence on compass calibration. Either the source of magnetic energy needs to be very large or it needs to be very close to the Phantom to make a difference.

Here is some guidance for good and bad places to do the compass calibration:

High voltage power lines (large regional towers) may have a slight influence but your average street power lines won't be an issue. Other bad spots for compass calibration are: inside of a building or structure, next to cars, on a paved surface, on a sidewalk, on a beach (depending on sand metallic content), on a boat, within 10' of significant metal objects or high voltage machines, near significantly sized rock formations containing metallic material.

The best and safest option for calibrating your compass is an open patch of grass (say 20' x 20' or larger) that doesn't have any large metal pipes immediately underneath it. Remove metal objects as if you're at the airport going through security and place them a couple feet away. Even keep your TX unit a few feet away. Make sure everything on the Phantom that is on during flight is on. It is safest to wait until the Phantom completes GPS acquisition and records a home location before performing the calibration.

Thanks Ian, Your last sentence is really important, as this has been my experience. To do compass calibration, in a clean area after Gps acquisition, appears to eliminate TBE completely. I had an opportunity to test drive some Walkera units recently & this is the recommended procedure for them. Not that I'm thinking of jumping the DJI ship, but the X800v2 is looking very interesting as a heavier lifter using a 3 way gimbal & Sony rx1003 camera. Keeping my options open for better quality stills/video.

 

[John Shaw]

I took a look at the timeline out of curiosity and to gain a perspective
This is the best I could figure looking through this thread
3/18 Ianwood identifies and posts the problem
17 days
4/04 Terry of DJI signs in
5 days
4/09 1st set of Testers identified
19 days
4/28 preBeta tests procedure identified
30 days
5/27 Operation Drunken Sparrow takes flight
5/xx 1st Beta released for testing
5/30 1st Beta test results posted
10 days
6/09 more Beta testers identified
35 days
7/14 2nd Beta released for testing
9 days
7/23 today

 

[d4ddyo]

I took a look at the timeline out of curiosity and to gain a perspective
This is the best I could figure looking through this thread
3/18 Ianwood identifies and posts the problem
17 days
4/04 Terry of DJI signs in
5 days
4/09 1st set of Testers identified
19 days
4/28 preBeta tests procedure identified
30 days
5/27 Operation Drunken Sparrow takes flight
5/xx 1st Beta released for testing
5/30 1st Beta test results posted
10 days
6/09 more Beta testers identified
5 days
7/14 2nd Beta released for testing
9 days
7/23 today

That's about right.

There was even a part in there where DJI just said they had ore pressing issues to deal with. We were all contemplating what the issue was that would let them temporarily postpone a Flight control issue.

This is what lack of communication will do.

 

[ianwood]

John, the timeline helps put things in perspective. It's actually pretty fast. I think some people have a very unrealistic expectation of how quickly a software release can be made. At times, that has included me!

The other thing we all need to remember is DJI has fixed the problem. They're going to release it as soon as it is ready to be released. Complaining now is kind of pointless. If it still wasn't fixed, we'd be painting the walls with complaints. But that's not the case.

 

[d4ddyo]

John, the timeline helps put things in perspective. It's actually pretty fast. I think some people have a very unrealistic expectation of how quickly a software release can be made. At times, that has included me!

The other thing we all need to remember is DJI has fixed the problem. They're going to release it as soon as it is ready to be released. Complaining now is kind of pointless. If it still wasn't fixed, we'd be painting the walls with complaints. But that's not the case.

Sadly... It is still not fixed from most consumers perspective and that is all that counts.

I ask anyone. If you spent $10,000 on anything ... and you came home and it was broken. What would you do? If it didn't fly... what would you do? If they told you that it was supposed to do something and it didn't... what would you do? If after complaining they told you that it would take at least 6 months and you just have to understand and deal with it... you hear nothing except from other owners... how would you feel?

I'm still talking about $10,000 something. Now I know $1500 is probably not a big deal to you. And I've spent more than that on other things... But just because it's acceptable to you... there are other perspectives. Don't think everyone has to feel the way you feel.

 

[ThatRobbGuy]

ianwood - I ask this with the utmost seriousness, and it is not intended to be inflammatory.. But... Do you work for DJI? Because it seems to me that you come to their defense a lot, and spend a lot of time trying to convince people to not be irritated with the situation because Golly gee, DJI is valiantly trying their darndest to help - despite the fact that they haven't even checked in with their beta testing group... It *almost* comes across as shill-esque.

 

[d4ddyo]

ianwood - I ask this with the utmost seriousness, and it is not intended to be inflammatory.. But... Do you work for DJI? Because it seems to me that you come to their defense a lot, and spend a lot of time trying to convince people to not be irritated with the situation because Golly gee, DJI is valiantly trying their darndest to help - despite the fact that they haven't even checked in with their beta testing group... It *almost* comes across as shill-esque.

I'm telling you... must be different people on one account. Went from...
1. "Do you have this issue? Rally around me".
2. DJI listen to US... we have 100s of issues
3. "Yay... beta test"
4. "Ummm... What now? Guys... they are ignoring us. Project Drunken Sparrow. Post Post! Go Viral!"
5. "Back in Business!"
6. Ummm Ignoring us again. Hmmm... maybe drunken sparrow again?
7. "Cool! Beta 2!"
8. "Beta 2 Works!"
9. hmmm... it's taking too long but give them time... they deserve it. They worked hard. It's us guys... not them. We don't 'need' it anyhow. Stop complaining. It's the process people "
10. You think you got problems? Try Nz!

If not he's interviewing.

 

[John Shaw]

If Ianwood was a DJI employee
1. They would have fixed the problem without letting anyone know
2. This problem would have been at the top of their list
3. We would have gotten progress updates every few days
4. We wouldn't have needed the preBeta testing as he already knew..
5. We would all be flying the official release and doing pro-DJI testimonials
Safe to say he is not a DJI employee...

 

[damoncooper]

DJI, PLEASE RELEASE 3.0.5!!!

- Beta 2 tester who thinks it's awesome

 

[Andy T]

ianwood - I ask this with the utmost seriousness, and it is not intended to be inflammatory.. But... Do you work for DJI?
*snip*

I don't think so but I think he definitely want to. But in his and the beta testers defense lets put us in their shoes. They were hungry and they fought with us. They got some food. They have their feet up watching TV now. I think any of us would have done the same. We are all human. If we think we need permission to make a stink I would say the answer is no. The drunken sparrow is dead because most of the sparrows have the fix I believe. On average I do one thing a day or so to let someone at DJI know what I think of their tardiness. Facebook, support department, employees, email. I bug them all. I was thinking of starting a BBB complaint but their LA office hasn't been hit yet and was too lazy to initiate that