Huh. Need some clarification on 5. Does this mean that they will enforce all the state and local laws passed against UASes? Because I thought the FAA said states' laws against UAS are invalid. Maybe I remember the hearsay as opposed to the articles, though.
AMA Recommends Members To Not Register Until Deadline
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Huh. Need some clarification on 5. Does this mean that they will enforce all the state and local laws passed against UASes? Because I thought the FAA said states' laws against UAS are invalid. Maybe I remember the hearsay as opposed to the articles, though.
Sorry if I repeat something already said; I made it through the first 4 pages on this topic--complete with flames requiring moderator intervention--and read the last 2 pages. Some very good, thoughtful comments. I learned a lot.
My thoughts include:
The AMA isn't in it for us, they're in it for traditional fixed wing model aircraft owner. However, unlike us they are so organized that they were at least given a seat at the table when the task force that just laid an egg or something on us met to draw up the first of a long series of regulations to be promulgated by the FAA. And our interests are sufficiently aligned with the AMA that their court action, and arguments they raise in that action, are our only hope at this moment for any relief from the proposed broadcasting of our names and addresses to John Q Pubic and the media the next time somebody claims to have been injured by a dji. We will get sued by the thousands. Say what you want about the AMA, they're in court fighting and we're all out here kibitzing and flaming each other.
That is the death grip the new regs have us in. It's not enforcement by the FAA, or even local law enforcement which is the real dragon to be feared. For we are a completely disorganized bunch of individuals, with no power to defend us or our legitimate interests. And enough crazies that don't recognize the need to act carefully with their new, very powerful toy. No, the real dragon in your nightmares should be that John Q. Citizen, or his lawyer, will have ready access to a target for the perceived wrongs of drone/quad crazies all over the U.S. Folks, we're about to get sued, I fear, by the droves. The FAA can accomplish its enforcement objectives by just feeding us to the lions (our names and addresses to private enforcers). It's the same private A.G. device recognized in bunches of other laws. Government helps private individuals to police some activity that the public thinks needs policing.
We will get no peace unless and until we organize, pay into the kitty enough to get our legitimate interests out there in the media and in Legislatures/Congress, and in courtrooms. Sort of like the AMA. Except I have a notion that if you counted up all the drone owners on Dec. 26, excluding the kiddie toys, we might begin to rival the AMA in number. If we want to preserve our sport/hobby it's going to cost us something.
That's my story and I'm stickin' with it.
My thoughts include:
The AMA isn't in it for us, they're in it for traditional fixed wing model aircraft owner. However, unlike us they are so organized that they were at least given a seat at the table when the task force that just laid an egg or something on us met to draw up the first of a long series of regulations to be promulgated by the FAA. And our interests are sufficiently aligned with the AMA that their court action, and arguments they raise in that action, are our only hope at this moment for any relief from the proposed broadcasting of our names and addresses to John Q Pubic and the media the next time somebody claims to have been injured by a dji. We will get sued by the thousands. Say what you want about the AMA, they're in court fighting and we're all out here kibitzing and flaming each other.
That is the death grip the new regs have us in. It's not enforcement by the FAA, or even local law enforcement which is the real dragon to be feared. For we are a completely disorganized bunch of individuals, with no power to defend us or our legitimate interests. And enough crazies that don't recognize the need to act carefully with their new, very powerful toy. No, the real dragon in your nightmares should be that John Q. Citizen, or his lawyer, will have ready access to a target for the perceived wrongs of drone/quad crazies all over the U.S. Folks, we're about to get sued, I fear, by the droves. The FAA can accomplish its enforcement objectives by just feeding us to the lions (our names and addresses to private enforcers). It's the same private A.G. device recognized in bunches of other laws. Government helps private individuals to police some activity that the public thinks needs policing.
We will get no peace unless and until we organize, pay into the kitty enough to get our legitimate interests out there in the media and in Legislatures/Congress, and in courtrooms. Sort of like the AMA. Except I have a notion that if you counted up all the drone owners on Dec. 26, excluding the kiddie toys, we might begin to rival the AMA in number. If we want to preserve our sport/hobby it's going to cost us something.
That's my story and I'm stickin' with it.
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You can check the benefits out here - Academy of Model Aeronautics - Programs & Benefits
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Okay, sorry been away for a couple days. TJ, you say you can see where I am, thats probably because you are mod/staff. If you dont mind, tell me where I am posting from.. if its Philly its wrong, its where my isp places me, same as I pop up in CA when some sites locate me, both are wrong. And like the other poster, if I wanted to hide where I'm posting from I would hide it, if I wanted too.
And just because you may know where I'm posting from doesnt mean you can actually find me, unless I give you more info.
I did register my drone, I have no reason to hide from the govt, I'm an ex employee. The state police have my fingerprints on file as does the fed govt, from multiple background checks for various reasons. The only thing they do not have currently is my dna because I served before the military started that.
And I know my state does not require me to carry my drivers license when out in public if I am not driving my vehicle, so unless they arrest me for DC or suspect I am doing some nefarious crime they have no reason to detain me. I know DC can cover a lot nowadays, as can suspecion, but thats why I have a minicam on my shoulder when flying, it shows whats going on around me in case of John Q Public or police issues, it helps show intent on my part as it also records audio. Shame it has come to this these days but the american public has become sue happy & the police have to CYA.
But I will never ever join the AMA, more power to those that did, its a personal decision as I said, several local fields made me feel very unwelcome. Heck, one of my local ham clubs does a foxhunt every year, a radio cw signal is broadcast on a certain frequency, thats the fox, we use our radios to track it, we're the hounds. First person to find the fox gets a trophy for a year & bragging rights. So anyway, 2 years in a row the fox hid near a local RC airfield, different directions though, so most of the hounds would stop on the road next to the fields parking area, no where near their airfield. Of maybe 8 vehicles every single ham/hound reported at the gathering afterwards they were approached by RC people demanding to know why the vehicles were stopping on a public state maintained road.
I mean seriously?? Maybe we wanted to look at the pretty planes & join in on the fun one day? So, I went to that airfield one year, maybe 3 or 4 weeks before our yearly hunt, one to let the club know we would possibly be in the area, another to talk to them about flying my quad there.
I was told most emphantically that my quad was not welcome & that we better stay away from their field. The tone of course made my ire rise so I retorted they couldnt keep us off a public state road & left before tempers really started rising.
Yah, I know one bad apple shouldnt ruin it for the rest & that my 1 lil measly membership doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things for the AMA, but if I was alienated then maybe others have been too. I get the same thing sometimes from groups like the older hams & vets, its just not RC people.
But look at what a few idiots have done to us now, we are at the point of having to register our quads/drones/etc because of a few idiots who insist on flying near airports without permission, flying as high as they can, as far as they can without visual contact, flying near wildfires when the local fire co is trying to put them out, etc.
I'm not against registration, I'm against being forced to register with a group like the AMA. I'd feel the same if my ham license had to be done through the ARRL group. Or say the IPG for paintball (yah, I know its not the same but similar).
And sorry to David Sachs, but in my personal opinion, he can go blow off as he doesnt represent me or speak for me, I retain my own paid counsel for that. His opinion is still his opinion, just because he has a law degree does not mean he is the authority or speaks for every other drone owner/user. (shrugs)
Anyways, sorry for the long posts, this has been a most interesting thread. Thank you all.
And just because you may know where I'm posting from doesnt mean you can actually find me, unless I give you more info.
I did register my drone, I have no reason to hide from the govt, I'm an ex employee. The state police have my fingerprints on file as does the fed govt, from multiple background checks for various reasons. The only thing they do not have currently is my dna because I served before the military started that.
And I know my state does not require me to carry my drivers license when out in public if I am not driving my vehicle, so unless they arrest me for DC or suspect I am doing some nefarious crime they have no reason to detain me. I know DC can cover a lot nowadays, as can suspecion, but thats why I have a minicam on my shoulder when flying, it shows whats going on around me in case of John Q Public or police issues, it helps show intent on my part as it also records audio. Shame it has come to this these days but the american public has become sue happy & the police have to CYA.
But I will never ever join the AMA, more power to those that did, its a personal decision as I said, several local fields made me feel very unwelcome. Heck, one of my local ham clubs does a foxhunt every year, a radio cw signal is broadcast on a certain frequency, thats the fox, we use our radios to track it, we're the hounds. First person to find the fox gets a trophy for a year & bragging rights. So anyway, 2 years in a row the fox hid near a local RC airfield, different directions though, so most of the hounds would stop on the road next to the fields parking area, no where near their airfield. Of maybe 8 vehicles every single ham/hound reported at the gathering afterwards they were approached by RC people demanding to know why the vehicles were stopping on a public state maintained road.
I mean seriously?? Maybe we wanted to look at the pretty planes & join in on the fun one day? So, I went to that airfield one year, maybe 3 or 4 weeks before our yearly hunt, one to let the club know we would possibly be in the area, another to talk to them about flying my quad there.
I was told most emphantically that my quad was not welcome & that we better stay away from their field. The tone of course made my ire rise so I retorted they couldnt keep us off a public state road & left before tempers really started rising.
Yah, I know one bad apple shouldnt ruin it for the rest & that my 1 lil measly membership doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things for the AMA, but if I was alienated then maybe others have been too. I get the same thing sometimes from groups like the older hams & vets, its just not RC people.
But look at what a few idiots have done to us now, we are at the point of having to register our quads/drones/etc because of a few idiots who insist on flying near airports without permission, flying as high as they can, as far as they can without visual contact, flying near wildfires when the local fire co is trying to put them out, etc.
I'm not against registration, I'm against being forced to register with a group like the AMA. I'd feel the same if my ham license had to be done through the ARRL group. Or say the IPG for paintball (yah, I know its not the same but similar).
And sorry to David Sachs, but in my personal opinion, he can go blow off as he doesnt represent me or speak for me, I retain my own paid counsel for that. His opinion is still his opinion, just because he has a law degree does not mean he is the authority or speaks for every other drone owner/user. (shrugs)
Anyways, sorry for the long posts, this has been a most interesting thread. Thank you all.
We need a QPA - Quad Pilots of America association.
GadgetGuy
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Not true, any law enforcement officer can demand to see it.
Read the document!
The FAA page for Law Enforcement makes it pretty clear. They can demand you show them your registration certificate. Read the documents:
Law Enforcement Resources
Law Enforcement Resources
Local Police have always enforced Federal laws, as well as state and local laws.
Example 1) Arrests for drug possession (Federal Law) are made by local police.
Example 2) Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Arizona - love him or hate him, he is a local Sheriff made famous by his enforcement of Federal Laws.
I'm not sure why people are so confused by this concept.
Example 1) Arrests for drug possession (Federal Law) are made by local police.
Example 2) Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Arizona - love him or hate him, he is a local Sheriff made famous by his enforcement of Federal Laws.
I'm not sure why people are so confused by this concept.
GadgetGuy
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What is clearly missing from the LEO Guidance for UAS is anything that would be a 4th category that covers UAS that are under 55 pounds and over .55 pounds flown recreationally by hobbyists. The only three listed categories are Model Aircraft AMA fliers, Commercial fliers, and Government Fliers. They are missing the 4th new category altogether! The only part that applies to them/us is the part about no careless or reckless flying, and needing to be registered. Other than that, the VLOS only applies to AMA Model Aircraft! Oh, and the first thing the LEO must do is locate the operator. Good luck with that! We are not restricted to VLOS and can legally fly from 3 miles away, based solely upon DJI's advertised transmitter range on a completely stock P3P!
We are not restricted to VLOS and can legally fly from 3 miles away, based solely upon DJI's advertised transmitter range on a completely stock P3P!
How would the FAA or local LE go about proving one does not have visual line of sight?
That little black box inside most newer drones will show your location as well as your drone's.
That information has been extracted from the P3 that collided with The Great Wheel here in Seattle.
Again, you truly have nothing to worry about as long as you don't lose your drone, and don't fly it in an area where you will immediately be surrounded by LE waiting for you to land it (i.e. White House, Prison yard, etc.).
I don't understand how that information can prove you could not see your drone while flying it.
You don't?
You are at point A. Your drone is here at point B, one mile from point A.
or
You are on 246th Street, your drone hit a car on 260th street. In between you and the drone in that 15 block stretch are some major obstacles that obscure your LOS, verifiable to any LEO that stands where the map shows your flight originated from.
No, I don't. Visibility by the human eye is way more than mile. At 400 feet altitude not much will be in your way in terms of building/trees... even it were, it would take a extreme amount of research to prove you had no visibility.
And it will take no research for the FAA to say that your flight was reckless at that distance. And then you can fight it in court where they will bring in their expert witnesses to describe how you were not able to see your drone at that distance. And you will not only pay the fine but the court costs.
You really think you can see your Phantom a mile away? Bwhahaha.
And at an elevation of 400 feet, 14 blocks away with some 50 foot trees and 6 story buildings in your line of sight, you really think you have visual control of your Phantom? You must be a new pilot who hasn't actually experienced any of the above.
Now really, do you not have anything better to do on Christmas morning but continue to argue this topic? I say let the dead horse have a day off from the constant beating some of you feel is so necessary.
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