AMA Recommends Members To Not Register Until Deadline

[FotoGeek]

I would luv to let that happen. Problem is with such a heated topic people tend to get emotional and irrational quite quickly. That turns into people belittling other people here, more problems, reports, etc. Also, there is a set of rules here that you agree to when joining. Some posters heated topics find it difficult to abide by those rules and then the staff needs to get involved. Now I know your new around here but I am sure you have witnessed the discourse in these types of threads. We encourage debating topics but not when it degrades into mean spirited comments. Myself and the rest of the staff have put up with quite a bit in these last week. There have been many warnings issued and most have complied by some do not and thats where we have to take action. Trust me, you wouldn't want the forum without rules as it would be pure chaos.

"I see" said the blind man to his deaf wife.

 

[Othan1]

If you want to blame people for this hasty action from the FAA, blame the media for the drone hate and fear they spread. Had they not been so negative about drones, perhaps more time would have been taken to craft a more sensible action.

It's only because "millions of drones at Christmas" BS fear it happened so quickly.

 

[FotoGeek]

If you want to blame people for this hasty action from the FAA, blame the media for the drone hate and fear they spread. Had they not been so negative about drones, perhaps more time would have been taken to craft a more sensible action.

It's only because "millions of drones at Christmas" BS fear it happened so quickly.

Perhaps. But the FAA cited several sources of perceived mischief and carless acts by drone operators in their report.

 

[GoodnNuff]

Perhaps. But the FAA cited several sources of perceived mischief and carless acts by drone operators in their report.

Yeah, there have been enough factual incidents with drones here in the Seattle area alone to make the FAA want to have the ability to trace them back to an owner. I can place some blame on the media, but the majority rests on the shoulders of the pilots who have flown in a manner to garner the attention of not only the media, but the Federal government.

 

[DroneDog]

Bah, screw the AMA, I'll never join their association even after my blood stops running through my body. I spoke to several local AMA clubs over 2 yrs ago, they wanted nothing to do with any quad or drone users/fliers. I went through the AMA site & had the feeling quad/drone/copter users were persona non gratia.

The day I have to join them to fly my drone is the day I'll go rogue in my flying & do as many of the idiots are doing now, I'll take my risks.

Do I trust our govt? Not completely, but thats why I have a work address & a PO Box. I used the same info as I did for my FCC license & several other licenses, & bank/store gift CCards are a wonder to behold. They can be registered with whatever name or address I want, course I'm not stupid enough to register it as Mickey Mouse at Walt Disney World.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

Bah, screw the AMA, I'll never join their association even after my blood stops running through my body. I spoke to several local AMA clubs over 2 yrs ago, they wanted nothing to do with any quad or drone users/fliers. I went through the AMA site & had the feeling quad/drone/copter users were persona non gratia.

The day I have to join them to fly my drone is the day I'll go rogue in my flying & do as many of the idiots are doing now, I'll take my risks.

Do I trust our govt? Not completely, but thats why I have a work address & a PO Box. I used the same info as I did for my FCC license & several other licenses, & bank/store gift CCards are a wonder to behold. They can be registered with whatever name or address I want, course I'm not stupid enough to register it as Mickey Mouse at Walt Disney World.

While your method is possible, what happens if you ever have contact with a LEO and your name doesn't match your ID? And if you were to use your real name you could easily be found. How would your scenario work in that situation?

 

[DroneDog]

Easy, I dont carry a DL with me all the time. If I walked to the area then I have no need to carry any ID with me, so as long as I have my FAA thing. Sides, did I say I didnt do the registration in the right name? I said the CC could be in a fake name
"bank/store gift CCards are a wonder to behold. They can be registered with whatever name or address I want, course I'm not stupid enough to register it as Mickey Mouse at Walt Disney World."
I'm sorry I didnt make that clear, I was only referring to the Bank CC being in a non real name.

And the police better have a good reason to detain me to figure out who I am if I am not carrying my DL because I walked there, or had a friend drive me. I'm not a lawyer but I know my current rights well enough to not allow them to ride roughshod over me. I've been that route with my photography trips, I carry the ACLU Photographers Right sheets. I may not always agree with them but sometimes they are good for some things. Along with Bert Krages sheet... Bert P. Krages Attorney at Law Photographer's Rights Page

The Bank CC at this point isnt being properly checked, how do I know? Simple, when I was doing mine earlier I swapped 2 numbers by mistake, but yet I still have an account with a assigned number when I checked maybe 5 minutes ago. Do I care about 5 dollars, not that big of a deal to me, others may think otherwise.

Why did I use a bank CC? Because I didnt trust the websites being put forward by others, especially that one that had bad certificates on it. Do I think the members did it intentionally? No I dont.

Do I worry about our government? Sometimes, I worry more about who the CIC is more than some nameless faceless entity, remember where I said I was ex military? Not only am I ex military I am a ex Federal employee, non military, in a couple different capacities.
I also hold a FCC license which has a PO Box in my FRN along with my work address as a physical address. Same thing with the multiple websites I run. Heck, even this (screen)name is one I've never used before so it can not be traced to any other online account, or if so its definitely not me, I just created the screen name out of the air.

My DL, CCWP, FCC Radio License, several business licenses, volunteer associations ID cards, national organization for my real job field, and SS all match my brand spanking new hobbyist FAA card of today in the matter of my true name. Even my former expired military, security clearance, & federal dept card all match to todays name.

But to tell you the gods honest truth here LuvMyTJ, I am nowhere near as paranoid as some of the people Ive seen posting here in the past few weeks of my lurking. I have lurked for over a year now I guess, I just decided today to join because a couple topics caught my eye & I felt I could contribute.
I'm trying to stay away from the ongoing flaming wars, I have enough of that garbage in RL.

 

[kphantom]

Bah, screw the AMA, I'll never join their association even after my blood stops running through my body. I spoke to several local AMA clubs over 2 yrs ago, they wanted nothing to do with any quad or drone users/fliers. I went through the AMA site & had the feeling quad/drone/copter users were persona non gratia.

The day I have to join them to fly my drone is the day I'll go rogue in my flying & do as many of the idiots are doing now, I'll take my risks.

Do I trust our govt? Not completely, but thats why I have a work address & a PO Box. I used the same info as I did for my FCC license & several other licenses, & bank/store gift CCards are a wonder to behold. They can be registered with whatever name or address I want, course I'm not stupid enough to register it as Mickey Mouse at Walt Disney World.

When I was a total noob to quadcopters not too long ago, I thought the local AMA club would help me to find a place to fly, etc. I was told I needed to take a flight test that was designed for fixed wing model aircraft. Antiquated. Also the local club POC was a little arrogant about it. Needless to say, that turned me off from the AMA and the local club. I think modern quad flyers of Phantoms or similar quads need to start their own club.

 

[GoodnNuff]

When I was a total noob to quadcopters not too long ago, I thought the local AMA club would help me to find a place to fly, etc. I was told I needed to take a flight test that was designed for fixed wing model aircraft. Antiquated. Also the local club POC was a little arrogant about it. Needless to say, that turned me off from the AMA and the local club. I think modern quad flyers of Phantoms or similar quads need to start their own club.

Was the "flight test" flying an oval and figure 8 patterns?
Please explain what type of flight test that is designed for a fixed wing that is "antiquated" for a drone?

 

[kphantom]

Was the "flight test" flying an oval and figure 8 patterns?
Please explain what type of flight test that is designed for a fixed wing that is "antiquated" for a drone?

Yes, it was ovals and figure 8's, things that are typical for fixed wing models whereas flying to precise 3D points in space, hovering in place would be more modern with computer and GPS or sensor based control systems.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

Easy, I dont carry a DL with me all the time. If I walked to the area then I have no need to carry any ID with me, so as long as I have my FAA thing. Sides, did I say I didnt do the registration in the right name? I said the CC could be in a fake name
"bank/store gift CCards are a wonder to behold. They can be registered with whatever name or address I want, course I'm not stupid enough to register it as Mickey Mouse at Walt Disney World."
I'm sorry I didnt make that clear, I was only referring to the Bank CC being in a non real name.

And the police better have a good reason to detain me to figure out who I am if I am not carrying my DL because I walked there, or had a friend drive me. I'm not a lawyer but I know my current rights well enough to not allow them to ride roughshod over me. I've been that route with my photography trips, I carry the ACLU Photographers Right sheets. I may not always agree with them but sometimes they are good for some things. Along with Bert Krages sheet... Bert P. Krages Attorney at Law Photographer's Rights Page

The Bank CC at this point isnt being properly checked, how do I know? Simple, when I was doing mine earlier I swapped 2 numbers by mistake, but yet I still have an account with a assigned number when I checked maybe 5 minutes ago. Do I care about 5 dollars, not that big of a deal to me, others may think otherwise.

Why did I use a bank CC? Because I didnt trust the websites being put forward by others, especially that one that had bad certificates on it. Do I think the members did it intentionally? No I dont.

Do I worry about our government? Sometimes, I worry more about who the CIC is more than some nameless faceless entity, remember where I said I was ex military? Not only am I ex military I am a ex Federal employee, non military, in a couple different capacities.
I also hold a FCC license which has a PO Box in my FRN along with my work address as a physical address. Same thing with the multiple websites I run. Heck, even this (screen)name is one I've never used before so it can not be traced to any other online account, or if so its definitely not me, I just created the screen name out of the air.

My DL, CCWP, FCC Radio License, several business licenses, volunteer associations ID cards, national organization for my real job field, and SS all match my brand spanking new hobbyist FAA card of today in the matter of my true name. Even my former expired military, security clearance, & federal dept card all match to todays name.

But to tell you the gods honest truth here LuvMyTJ, I am nowhere near as paranoid as some of the people Ive seen posting here in the past few weeks of my lurking. I have lurked for over a year now I guess, I just decided today to join because a couple topics caught my eye & I felt I could contribute.
I'm trying to stay away from the ongoing flaming wars, I have enough of that garbage in RL.

I hear you, but even I can see where your posting from, what makes you think the government couldn't track your IP? Just saying.
I am one of those who feel this is a 'feel good' move and that no real bite. Criminals don't follow laws so whats the use.

 

[GoodnNuff]

Yes, it was ovals and figure 8's, things that are typical for fixed wing models whereas flying to precise 3D points in space, hovering in place would be more modern with computer and GPS or sensor based control systems.

I'm sorry kphantom, but if you can't fly both simple patterns, regardless of the aircraft you are piloting, you should not be allowed on a flying field anymore than a driver who has only mastered Forward and Reverse be allowed on the highway.
You need to be able to maneuver in among and around other aircraft when on a flying field - if you can't you put your craft and every other aircraft in the air at risk.

There is nothing antiquated about the ability to fly an oval and a figure 8.

No offense, but that is the different between a "pilot" and someone who simply uses a "computer and GPS/sensor based control system" to follow a pattern.
This is why an actual drone license may be a necessity in our future - and I an assure you that will require a demonstration of your piloting skills.

 

[kphantom]

I'm sorry kphantom, but if you can't fly both simple patterns, regardless of the aircraft you are piloting, you should not be allowed on a flying field anymore than a driver who has only mastered Forward and Reverse be allowed on the highway.
You need to be able to maneuver in among and around other aircraft when on a flying field - if you can't you put your craft and every other aircraft in the air at risk.

There is nothing antiquated about the ability to fly an oval and a figure 8.

No offense, but that is the different between a "pilot" and someone who simply uses a "computer and GPS/sensor based control system" to follow a pattern.
This is why an actual drone license may be a necessity in our future - and I an assure you that will require a demonstration of your piloting skills.

I can fly the patterns. Are you an AMA member?

 

[GoodnNuff]

I can fly the patterns. Are you an AMA member?

Yes, I've been an AMA member for quite some time, long before I flew a drone.
I've seen what an unskilled pilot can do first hand.

Flying a drone at a flying field is actually quite boring because you are limited to the confines of the field. But for maiden flights or testing new mods to a drone, IMO this is the safest place to make those initial flights.
Even flying fixed wings in a repetitive pattern takes a good dose of imagination to not become boring. I actually do most of my flying of fixed wings outside of the club's fields that I'm a member of, that and I'm selfish and don't want to share the airspace...lol.

 

[DrJoe]

I can only say that I'm disheartened. I've been on these boards for quite some time. When drones were the still in the "Wild West" phase a few years back, you'd see posts about how high you could fly, or how far you could go. No one ever took into consideration the safety of others in the air or on the ground. Dangerous times. I did some questionable things at first too.

That attitude still exists today. No one wants restrictions or to be told what to do. You may never drive 100 mph, but you don't want your car limited by the manufacturer or government regulation to 70mph. People hate enforcement and rules, but most people are reasonable and safe anyway. Some aren't, and they are the ones that have brought us here.

For the most part, I believe the problem is that you can unbox a brand new UAS and take it up to 1000 feet. If you don't realize what your doing, or hadn't thought about it, that newbie just added to the drama.

I thought the AMA had some pretty good rules for safe flying. While some were a bit archaic, for the most part they provide safe operation of sUAS. I joined. I have found there membership to be older hobbiest with a disdain for stabilized rotorcraft. They disappointed me. My membership has now lapsed.

Spinning blades are dangerous to those on the ground. See the article about the toddler that had his eye gouged out. All kinds of failures can happen; pilot error, ESC failure, prop loss, engine failure, flight controller failure, transmitter failure, battery failure, EM interference... the list goes on and on. Remember that DJI is a Chinese company with Chinese quality controls and labor (no offense). While I think pilot error accounts for the vast majority of risk and incidents, any of the other failures can and do happen. I lost a P2 Vision Plus to an ESC failure: the P2 began a slow tilt and loss of control, accellerated and decended over US highway 9 in New Jersey and crashed into a stand of trees. I consider myself lucky no one was injured.

If something does happen, you need to be responsible for it. You bought the quad, you flew the quad, and you decided it was safe to do so. The FAA just wants to know who the heck you are when your fan hits my toddler.

There is a bright side to all of this too. If in fact the FAA considers your quad an "aircraft", then you have all the operational rights of an aircraft... no town, state, or jurisdiction other than federal can promulgate rules to restrict your federal right to operate that aircraft, and the FAA will not tolerate a thousand patchwork rules once theirs are finalized. They HATE local laws stepping on their turf.

We're going to have to register and mark them. We are going to have to fly by the rules or face enforcement action. We are going to have to learn about airspace and pass a knowledge test.

I'd prefer smaller government with less infringement on my rights. But if your drone that you are flying at 700 feet and a mile away comes crashing down and injures my child, or causes my wife to have a car accident, or damages my property... I want to know who the hell you are, cause pal, YOU will be held responsible, and I won't need the government to help me, but you may.

 

[spankybear]

While your method is possible, what happens if you ever have contact with a LEO and your name doesn't match your ID? And if you were to use your real name you could easily be found. How would your scenario work in that situation?

You don't need to show your faa stuff to a local, or state LEO... they need a warren. Only an FAA inspector can ask for an you must produce it for... The only way the local LEO can see your stuff is if you give consent... and if you do you give up your rights...

 

[snerd]

I hear you, but even I can see where your posting from, what makes you think the government couldn't track your IP? Just saying..........

You have my usual IP address I'm sure, but what about this one?! When concerned about privacy, I use a VPN.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

You have my usual IP address I'm sure, but what about this one?! When concerned about privacy, I use a VPN.

You moved to California, nice!

 

[Geoelectro]

I can understand why the AMA is disturbed by the influx of Quad Copters. They've had decades with a positive appearance and dedicated members. I've flown in the approved fields when I first got into heli's. A great bunch of folks that were very helpful. There was a comical "at odds" between the fixed wing side and the heli side.

Suddenly the Quads come into the picture and a small percentage of users have caused problems getting the attention of the media. Now, ALL RC has a negative appearance on them. I can certainly see why AMA members may not be so happy about all the new hoops they have to jump through because of this new hobby. When I first started flying my quad I had a feeling flying anywhere, anytime was going to be an issue at some point. I didn't think the camera was going to be such an issue as much as flying around houses etc. I guess the combination made it too much to quietly slip by. I will register my quad family proudly and fly when and where I can.

Geo

 

[DaveFromRI]

You don't need to show your faa stuff to a local, or state LEO... they need a warren. Only an FAA inspector can ask for an you must produce it for... The only way the local LEO can see your stuff is if you give consent... and if you do you give up your rights...

With all due respect, can I say that this statement is wrong? It's not my opinion, please see the "LEO Guidance for Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS)":
http://www.faa.gov/uas/law_enforcement/media/LEO_guidance_card.pdf

"If you suspect a UAS operation is unsafe or unauthorized". In the eyes of the beholder as they say.