Aerial Photography Legalities

[BigAl07]

.....
A good friend of mine is a local federal district judge. He likes to fly with me on occasion and I told him about your scenario. He laughed and my words above are a summation of his. ....

Splendid advice.. NOT!

Your above comment is just like the one recently in another thread where the member stated "Oh my good buddy is an Aviation Attorney and I spoke with him and he confirmed THIS was not a Part 107 flight'. He argued and argued so we finally told him, "Contact the FSDO and ask them because at the end of the day they are the ones investigating it."

Well he did exactly that and he was man enough to come back and admit he (and his Aviation Attorney friend) were wrong and it was indeed a Part 107 flight. The FSDO had made it abundantly clear that what he asked was well outside of Hobby/Recreational flight.

So thecaptainkirk how about this... draft up a letter to your local FSDO with the exact scenario the OP has stated (why not copy & paste it into your letter?) and see what they say about it. Please do this so the rest of us, those who have no common sense, can be enlightened and learn from your wisdom and experience in this arena.

While I whole heartedly agree this SHOULD NOT be a Part 107 flight, I wasn't asked by the FAA when these rules/regs were drafted, just like everyone else I am required to fly by them.

Sometimes the rules & regs don't make sense even to those who have VAST amounts of commens sense but they are law none-the-less.

 

[sar104]

Splendid advice.. NOT!

Your above comment is just like the one recently in another thread where the member stated "Oh my good buddy is an Aviation Attorney and I spoke with him and he confirmed THIS was not a Part 107 flight'. He argued and argued so we finally told him, "Contact the FSDO and ask them because at the end of the day they are the ones investigating it."

Well he did exactly that and he was man enough to come back and admit he (and his Aviation Attorney friend) were wrong and it was indeed a Part 107 flight. The FSDO had made it abundantly clear that what he asked was well outside of Hobby/Recreational flight.

So thecaptainkirk how about this... draft up a letter to your local FSDO with the exact scenario the OP has stated (why not copy & paste it into your letter?) and see what they say about it. Please do this so the rest of us, those who have no common sense, can be enlightened and learn from your wisdom and experience in this arena.

While I whole heartedly agree this SHOULD NOT be a Part 107 flight, I wasn't asked by the FAA when these rules/regs were drafted, just like everyone else I am required to fly by them.

Sometimes the rules & regs don't make sense even to those who have VAST amounts of commens sense but they are law none-the-less.

I think what gets missed in many of these arguments is the fact that the FAA didn't choose the rules that they are playing by - they were constrained by Congress, which prevented them from regulating "model aircraft". Their response, which I cannot really fault them for given that they are responsible for safe operation of the NAS, was to work within that constraint and define "model aircraft" as narrowly as they could, and thus rule out plenty of activities that, while clearly not commercial, are not strictly recreational.

 

[Osmosis]

About the same as would be required if you stood on the ground and used a regular camera.
Don't over-think it.

Exactly! You were asked and as long as you dont fly over people, moving cars, etc. you're fine. The School Board, City, State have no authority over airspace, this is controlled by the FAA only.

Recent court case on this subject:

Controversial drone law enacted by Massachusetts city struck down by federal court

Also - dont forget to overlook this:

Flying UAS in and around stadiums is prohibited starting one hour before and ending one hour after the scheduled time of any of the following events:

• Major League Baseball
• National Football League
• NCAA Division One Football
• NASCAR Sprint Cup, Indy Car, and Champ Series races

 

[Bill Farr]

The school had asked me to do it, I’m doing it as a favor since my kids go there

I film for my local high school football practice twice a week at the coaches request free of charge. No charge, however I would advise you to get registered with the FAA. If your Drone has GPS they will know where you are. If your not receiving compensation then your not required to have the more expensive commercial registration. I chose to pay a little more for the commercial license as I intend on doing some commercial real estate and other things for pay. If you have a nice machine then why not. Good luck and safe flights.
Bill

 

[sar104]

I film for my local high school football practice twice a week at the coaches request free of charge. No charge, however I would advise you to get registered with the FAA. If your Drone has GPS they will know where you are. If your not receiving compensation then your not required to have the more expensive commercial registration. I chose to pay a little more for the commercial license as I intend on doing some commercial real estate and other things for pay. If you have a nice machine then why not. Good luck and safe flights.
Bill

I'm not quite sure where to start after reading that post.

1. If he is not Part 107 certified then there is no FAA registration process, so he can't do that.
2. The GPS on the aircraft does not provide any location information to the FAA.
3. Whether one needs Part 107 is not just a question of compensation or otherwise.
4. What do you mean by "paid a little more for the commercial license"?

 

[pe9999]

No money or beers for that matter was exchanged!!!

Even no money or beer exchanged, in USA, it still requires a part. 107 license and a written permission from the school.

 

[BellevueV]

Oh
My
Goodness

I usually read threads, shake my head and move on, don't post....

This is SIMPLE

You are NOT receiving ANY form of COMPENSATION

So this is NOT a 107 required circumstance

(I have a 107 license and operate commercially, but I also do a LOT of non commercial FREE work which is in the hobbyist category- like local public properties)

 

[sar104]

Oh
My
Goodness

I usually read threads, shake my head and move on, don't post....

This is SIMPLE

You are NOT receiving ANY form of COMPENSATION

So this is NOT a 107 required circumstance

(I have a 107 license and operate commercially, but I also do a LOT of non commercial FREE work which is in the hobbyist category- like local public properties)

You probably ought to call your local FAA office to get their opinion. You are not going to like what they tell you, although you are free to ignore it.

 

[BellevueV]

You probably ought to call your local FAA office to get their opinion. You are not going to like what they tell you, although you are free to ignore it.

Stop this nonsense

Read this link

Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Frequently Asked Questions

It's CLEAR as a bell this is a hobbyist situation so no need to call anyone
Just read what the FAA clearly states and not all the misinformation here

 

[keyguitar99]

It's a Mad World....great song, but true. I was paranoid about shooting a video inside a venue, it was a rock video written for a fallen officer in NY. Main concern was liability insurance. I don't have my 107, but intend to get it. So....I practiced indoors in my church (with permission) for 2 weeks, I also have 3 years of flying experience with all the Phantoms, and a few years flying fixed wing gas powered UAC. Yet I still worried. I went to the video shoot with the intention of only doing outdoor shots and vids, but when I got there the police from neighboring towns wanted to see some overhead shots. I got there early and did a few practice flights inside with the P3Pro using prop guards, had no issues, so I went ahead with the shoot. I'm thankful that there were no electronic issues ( Electronic Engineer, and retired IT Professional), because it is a "Mad World". There are too many sue crazies out there, a law suit could have drained my retirement fund. Anyway, I took a chance, had a great time, the video came out excellent (4 other ground videographers involved) and nothing went wrong. I sure had sweaty palms flying though!!! I can post a link if anyone wants to see it. Also, I do "free" aerial foliage shoots for over state parks near me......the forest rangers love them.

 

[sar104]

Stop this nonsense

Read this link

Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Frequently Asked Questions

It's CLEAR as a bell this is a hobbyist situation so no need to call anyone
Just read what the FAA clearly states and not all the misinformation here

Personally I suggest you actually read the applicable laws (FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 (Public Law 112-95 and 14 CFR Part 101 subpart E), and then the FAA Interpretation of the Special Rule (Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft) which is, itself, cited on the FAQ page that I don't think you have read very carefully.

But beyond that, your strident objections are moot anyway - everyone I'm aware of who has called the FAA on this question has received the same advice, consistent with the link above - Part 101 is purely recreational while everything else, paid or not, falls under Part 107. The distinction is recreational vs. non-recreational, not commercial vs. non-commercial. Specifically, anything that benefits an organization or business, even if not yours, is non-recreational. No one has reported a different result.

So you are free to rant that it is nonsense and ignore it without even checking with the FAA, but you do others a disservice by encouraging them just to believe your misunderstanding of the situation. If they at least check and make an informed decision to proceed anyway, that's fine too.

 

[BellevueV]

Well

I'm right

Your wrong


Who cares


This is why I don't post in threads

 

[sar104]

This is why I don't post in threads

Because you can't be bothered to engage in civilized discussion?

 

[BellevueV]

...really....


it doesn't matter what anyone says - always someone there to make their day parsing things out to endless minutia...

"...anything that benefits an..."

So my goodness, - - e.g. - - I took a picture of my neighbors house for FUN - he liked it - he didn't give me anything - it made me feel good a part of my hobby - it made him feel good - - is this a BENEFIT - ? - same for a school/a city - -the dividing line is COMPENSATION - - can someone GAIN something by it - first ME -the person taking the photo etc - by the way of direct or indirect compensation for the act - then it would NOT be a hobby situation, otherwise it is - that simple - no need to make it so complicated...

...a hobby is a “pursuit outside one’s regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation.” UAS use for recreation is “refreshment of strength and spirits after work; a means of refreshment or diversion.”

 

[BellevueV]

So my relaxation - my hobby - - is sharing images of property/places/things - from the perspective of a drone...

I could do whatever my heart desires with the photos - share them - give them to anyone - - and its still a hobby - until I receive a BENEFIT or COMPENSATION for it...


...this is why it's hard for farmers to understand that they actually need a 107 - - as although its on their own land - the use of the drone - within their own business - creates a material benefit to themselves - so its not a hobby when they shoot video of their own field for the BENEFIT of the business - but a HOBBY to shoot their land for pictures that may be used for non commercial benefit....

...a guy shooting pics in his town of anything for fun because he enjoys it - including public buildings - and sharing them for fun wherever he chooses for no personal economic benefit or compensation is engaging in a hobby...

 

[sar104]

So my relaxation - my hobby - - is sharing images of property/places/things - from the perspective of a drone...

I could do whatever my heart desires with the photos - share them - give them to anyone - - and its still a hobby - until I receive a BENEFIT or COMPENSATION for it...

No - you are still not understanding the law. Simply claiming that you are doing it for relaxation does not make it so.

Just as one example of many since it has been unambiguously established in this case; plenty of UAV pilots are trying to get into search and rescue on a volunteer basis since they already participate in SAR. For most of them SAR really is a hobby, albeit with a public service flavor, and carries no benefits or compensation. And yet the FAA has clearly stated on several occasions that it falls under Part 107 and warned volunteers who flew without Part 107 or a COA.

In the case of taking photos that you describe, and sharing them with friends, if that is not done to benefit a business or other organization then you are fine. I did the same before I was Part 107 licensed. But a clear boundary is when you start providing those services to a business or organization, paid or otherwise. The determining factor is not whether you, personally, benefit.

Anyway, my point, again, is that you are free to choose your own interpretation and live with the consequences, but it is irresponsible to push your position as fact when others have already established that, at least in the eyes of the FAA, you are wrong.

 

[BellevueV]

stop with the irresponsible B.S.

you even state it - - 'In the case of taking photos that you describe, and sharing them with friends, if that is not done to benefit a business or other organization then you are fine. ... But a clear boundary is when you start providing those services to a business or organization, paid or otherwise.'

...a school is not the same as a business - a picture of the school, or your neighbors house is not a service - look at the below text from your own reference, and read the table on that page as well...


""The statute requires model aircraft to be flown strictly for hobby or recreational purposes. Because the statute and its legislative history do not elaborate on the intended meaning of "hobby or recreational purposes," we look to their ordinary meaning and also the FAA’s previous interpretations to understand the direction provided by Congress.www.merriam-webster.com (last accessed June 9, 2014). A definition of recreation is "3 A definition of "hobby" is a "pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation." Merriam-Webster Dictionary, available at refreshment of strength and spirits after work; a means of refreshment or diversion." Id. These uses are consistent with the FAA’s 2007 policy on model aircraft in which the Agency stated model aircraft operating guidelines did not apply to “persons or companies for business purposes.” See 72 FR at 6690.4
Any operation not conducted strictly for hobby or recreation purposes could not be operated under the special rule for model aircraft. Clearly, commercial operations would not be hobby or recreation flights.5 Likewise, flights that are in furtherance of a business, or incidental to a person’s business, would not be a hobby or recreation flight. Flights conducted incidental to, and within the scope of, a business where no common carriage is involved, generally may operate under FAA’s general operating rules of part 91.""

....now, with reference to the emergency services - - in those cases you are correct - as YOU WOULD BE PROVIDING A SERVICE...

- - under your interpretations EVERYONE would need a 107 the moment they shared a photograph with anyone outside of their home

 

[Neon Euc]

It's a Mad World....great song, but true. I was paranoid about shooting a video inside a venue, it was a rock video written for a fallen officer in NY. Main concern was liability insurance. I don't have my 107, but intend to get it. So....I practiced indoors in my church (with permission) for 2 weeks, I also have 3 years of flying experience with all the Phantoms, and a few years flying fixed wing gas powered UAC. Yet I still worried. I went to the video shoot with the intention of only doing outdoor shots and vids, but when I got there the police from neighboring towns wanted to see some overhead shots. I got there early and did a few practice flights inside with the P3Pro using prop guards, had no issues, so I went ahead with the shoot. I'm thankful that there were no electronic issues ( Electronic Engineer, and retired IT Professional), because it is a "Mad World". There are too many sue crazies out there, a law suit could have drained my retirement fund. Anyway, I took a chance, had a great time, the video came out excellent (4 other ground videographers involved) and nothing went wrong. I sure had sweaty palms flying though!!! I can post a link if anyone wants to see it. Also, I do "free" aerial foliage shoots for over state parks near me......the forest rangers love them.

Love to see the video [emoji4][emoji4]

 

[BellevueV]

So let me get this straight. I can't take a picture of my farm and give to you if you asked for it?

...strange example

e.g. - ....if you took pictures of MY farm, because you enjoy doing that, and then GAVE it to me - -THANKS - - but if I said, golly Newbie - thanks a lot - and here is a case of beer - then oops - you are receiving COMPENSATION - you need a 107

 

[Mystic Sky Media]

What is required of me if I want to take an Ariel picture of a football field for my kids school. It will be 30 mins before dusk, I’ll be taking off from an empty softball field and staying above the softball field. Not flying over anyone and I am giving the picture to the school.

It doesn't matter if "no money or beers were exchanged". If it is not for your personal enjoyment, then it is classified as "non-hobby" and requires a license. Please don't get hung up on compensation, because the Feds won't. If you are giving the photo to the school, that requires a license.