Birdside Antenna Mod

Silverwingflinx · Mar 5, 2017

dirtybum said:
Give us some news Silver! I'm modding mine now, gonna be 30 mph winds tomorrow.

i sure would like to but now my ipad crashed

the black screen of death tried to reboot but nothing

(

Digdat0 · Mar 5, 2017

i took up this mod today, it went really well. I used a spare pair of landing gear and modified them a tad. The antennas connect, cant fly as its snowing/raining out right now so no way to test, hopefully this week. Some pics below

the antennas removed

fitting the antennas, made some cuts to allow better fitting

trimmed off the inside pieces for better fit

removed the stock antennas, ready for surgery

taped the antennas in place, make soldering nice and easy

finished soldering, new modified legs in place

i cut part of the opening larger in the bird so the antenna where the compass sits could be a little lower

final product, this is a crash repair hence the jacked shell

Silverwingflinx · Mar 5, 2017

Digdat0 said:
i took up this mod today, it went really well. I used a spare pair of landing gear and modified them a tad. The antennas connect, cant fly as its snowing/raining out right now so no way to test, hopefully this week. Some pics below

the antennas removed

fitting the antennas, made some cuts to allow better fitting

trimmed off the inside pieces for better fit

removed the stock antennas, ready for surgery

taped the antennas in place, make soldering nice and easy

finished soldering, new modified legs in place

i cut part of the opening larger in the bird so the antenna where the compass sits could be a little lower

final product, this is a crash repair hence the jacked shell

nice work doctor dig

Habanero · Mar 6, 2017

Matts175 said:
Do you 2 have any proof of this? Please post links to this information.

I'm betting it's more like 1/10th or even less of a db.

EDIT: It's .04 of a DB. LOL, that might shorten your range by.... 3 feet?

https://linxtechnologies.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/connector_overview_guide.pdf

Thats only Insertion Loss of the connector under best circustances before the connector its even soldered or crimped and no load its apply just continuity. To calculate the real total loss first you need to know how much current its going to go truth the conector and use the original # in this case .04 and the formula or calculator also because each connector its a little different let say one its .03 and another .05 they both pass but end result will be probably half db apart. Also the antenna plays a part on the end result because some has more Return loss than others...Connectors also have return loss that goes into the equation to....

Thats why to find out in real life you assemble your system use a meter or better yet network analyzer and check db before and after connections to actually find out the loss and thats where the average 1db for connector come from when working inside the fcc limits, comercial systems with powerful amps see much bigger loss but who cares when the amp its as powerful as you need it to be....

Look at this like a water hose that has a hole of a size .04 the more pressure you put on the hose the more water comes out of the hole... How can you calculate how much water will spill out? Well the hose gun (antenna) also plays a part as it puts more or less back pressure (return loss) on the hose.... Believe it or not they used this kind of sample in school to try to get you to understand....Physics repeat its laws in many ways.... and RF its actually leaking ....

in this case the TX its not very powerful I won't be surprise if a quality connector will achieve .5 db loss or something like that but .04 that would be a dream even for russian gold/silver connectors in a real application.

cable will also kill you some of those skinny cable can have something like .25 loss in 3 inch so all adds up and you may think "well I started on 28 db so no much loss" but remember db scale its not linear and every 3 db you are losing half the power.

Sorry if I put every one to sleep , just trying to share

KennethMcNutt · Mar 6, 2017

HWCM said:
These amplifiers are not good. They have a lot of noise and require a regulated power supply.
Why are you using two amplifiers?
Also, not to be critical, but those antennas are worse than the originals. Try some Alfa antennas. I have both, the Alfa antennas are awesome!
Have you have any luck with the amplifiers?

They are great little amps!!!
My proof???
Few can do what I do... (P3S)

Digdat0 · Mar 6, 2017

KennethMcNutt said:
They are great little amps!!!
My proof???
Few can do what I do... (P3S)

15k with standard is pretty amazing man!

KennethMcNutt · Mar 6, 2017

Habanero said:
Thats only Insertion Loss of the connector under best circustances before the connector its even soldered or crimped and no load its apply just continuity. To calculate the real total loss first you need to know how much current its going to go truth the conector and use the original # in this case .04 and the formula or calculator also because each connector its a little different let say one its .03 and another .05 they both pass but end result will be probably half db apart. Also the antenna plays a part on the end result because some has more Return loss than others...Connectors also have return loss that goes into the equation to....

Thats why to find out in real life you assemble your system use a meter or better yet network analyzer and check db before and after connections to actually find out the loss and thats where the average 1db for connector come from when working inside the fcc limits, comercial systems with powerful amps see much bigger loss but who cares when the amp its as powerful as you need it to be....

Look at this like a water hose that has a hole of a size .04 the more pressure you put on the hose the more water comes out of the hole... How can you calculate how much water will spill out? Well the hose gun (antenna) also plays a part as it puts more or less back pressure (return loss) on the hose.... Believe it or not they used this kind of sample in school to try to get you to understand....Physics repeat its laws in many ways.... and RF its actually leaking ....

in this case the TX its not very powerful I won't be surprise if a quality connector will achieve .5 db loss or something like that but .04 that would be a dream even for russian gold/silver connectors in a real application.

cable will also kill you some of those skinny cable can have something like .25 loss in 3 inch so all adds up and you may think "well I started on 28 db so no much loss" but remember db scale its not linear and every 3 db you are losing half the power.

Sorry if I put every one to sleep , just trying to share

Wide awake Sir!!
I hear your Words...
I heed your warnings..
I do the math.. Wireless Calculators | Radio Frequency Propagation | L-com.com
I conserve cash as a rule #1
I go Cheap..
I do ugly...
Yet I go far!!!!
My P3S... My P3P is unmodded as of yet..

(at least untested)

Habanero · Mar 6, 2017

Really good amps in did... thinking outside the box it's the way to go... maybe this little guys are a good option for birdside ....

Alfa antennas are cheap $6 so you may like them as I do...

HWCM · Mar 7, 2017

KennethMcNutt said:
They are great little amps!!!
My proof???
Few can do what I do... (P3S)

I stand corrected. Very nice. All the reviews I had read on them were not good. You could tuck those inside the controller. What are you using to power them.
Grab a set or Alfas. They are great.
I wish I had a flat place like that to fly/

Procharged97 · Mar 8, 2017

Matts175 said:
Do you 2 have any proof of this? Please post links to this information.

I'm betting it's more like 1/10th or even less of a db.

EDIT: It's .04 of a DB. LOL, that might shorten your range by.... 3 feet?

https://linxtechnologies.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/connector_overview_guide.pdf

I agree with you, i tested on my meter and did not see 1dBm loss at all

dirtybum · Mar 12, 2017

On my first attempt with this mod with the antennas placed like this

it was 20 mile an hour winds and I was flying from a spot I don't normally fly from, but have had luck there before. After 7000 feet I started experiencing very poor results with the terminator panel unboosted. I thought for sure that either these antennas will not work for this situation or my soldering was bad.
When I got a chance to fly this mod on a much calmer day and in a flight path that usually works great for me I tried with the antennas facing this way this time

Front to back with the antenna facing the way it would on your remote. I went 40,000 with perfect signal, unboosted terminator panel. The third test I tried with the antennas orientated the same way, facing forward on the front legs, straight back on the back legs and unboosted, went to 60,000 unboosted. Then in that same flight path I decided to try the antennas orientated this way

similar to the way the stock antennas face, I went 35,000 with perfect signal no drops in the bars at any point but had to turn around because of an unknown battery issue. I would've like to take that further for a more accurate comparison of the orientation, but it was still very promising.
Except for that first flight which I chalk up to extremely too windy to fly and probably a bad location the rest of my tests of this leg mod the signal score was 100% with unboosted antennas.
Here's a screenshot of right before the turn around and right after the turnaround showing great signal strength for an unboosted flight.

Sidenote: these tests only confirm that these antennas can be used as bird side antennas, I'm not sure that stock antennas can't do this performance, and not saying that we should immediately mod all our long-distance rigs with these, but you got admit 60,000 unboosted is impressive no matter which way you look at it especially not going over 300 feet

Silverwingflinx · Mar 12, 2017

dirtybum said:
On my first attempt with this mod with the antennas placed like this

it was 20 mile an hour winds and I was flying from a spot I don't normally fly from, but have had luck there before. After 7000 feet I started experiencing very poor results with the terminator panel unboosted. I thought for sure that either these antennas will not work for this situation or my soldering was bad.
When I got a chance to fly this mod on a much calmer day and in a flight path that usually works great for me I tried with the antennas facing this way this time

Front to back with the antenna facing the way it would on your remote. I went 40,000 with perfect signal, unboosted terminator panel. The third test I tried with the antennas orientated the same way, facing forward on the front legs, straight back on the back legs and unboosted, went to 60,000 unboosted. Then in that same flight path I decided to try the antennas orientated this way

similar to the way the stock antennas face, I went 35,000 with perfect signal no drops in the bars at any point but had to turn around because of an unknown battery issue. I would've like to take that further for a more accurate comparison of the orientation, but it was still very promising.
Except for that first flight which I chalk up to extremely too windy to fly and probably a bad location the rest of my tests of this leg mod the signal score was 100% with unboosted antennas.
Here's a screenshot of right before the turn around and right after the turnaround showing great signal strength for an unboosted flight.

Sidenote: these tests only confirm that these antennas can be used as bird side antennas, I'm not sure that stock antennas can't do this performance, and not saying that we should immediately mod all our long-distance rigs with these, but you got admit 60,000 unboosted is impressive no matter which way you look at it especially not going over 300 feet

this is good to hear DB i have not been able to test fly yet.but yes i figured that the orientation is important.antennas 1&2 face forward 3&4 to the back.just the way they came out.

dirtybum · Mar 12, 2017

Can't confirm that orientation is a factor or not, because I only went 35000 after changing orientation and the signal was perfect. It very well could've gone 60000 as well. Other test from other pilots are important from here on. I do know for fact that they work and my solder job was good.

Habanero · Mar 12, 2017

I have a few of those around, another one for the list for sure... it's really cold out there still , even if my bird can handle it I don't think I can...

Are those panels just solder to the original cables so not need to mess with the AC ? Those are some unbelievable numbers champion !

dirtybum · Mar 16, 2017

Here's some results of a longer flight with antennas oriented like this

50000' perfect signal
Terminator UNboosted.

o
I'm gonna revert back to stock leg antennas now for an unboosted comparison test.
But 50-60000 UNboosted, I'm thinking boosted would be amazing results

Silverwingflinx · Mar 16, 2017

dirtybum said:
Here's some results of a longer flight with antennas oriented like this

50000' perfect signal
Terminator UNboosted.

o
I'm gonna revert back to stock leg antennas now for an unboosted comparison test.
But 50-60000 UNboosted, I'm thinking boosted would be amazing results

Silverwingflinx · Mar 16, 2017

hey dirty bum thanks for the update your a true pioneer to this mod.next mod P4 hhhhmmmmm.

dirtybum · Mar 19, 2017

Just so these tests would be fair, I reverted back to stock leg antennas and ran this route w/ unboosted terminator from the same flightpath tonight. I went 55,000 feet with perfect signal all-around at the same altitude. So with those results it's hard to say if using these RC antennas bird side have any advantage over stock! Everything is worth a try, and I gave this mod my best effort, but after this flight I'm going to have to call it a tie. From here I will try these RC antennas on the P3 standard for Wi-Fi signal. And as a result I can only say the terminator panel rocks and has given a solid unboosted performance.

KennethMcNutt · Mar 22, 2017

I have a new thought for this MOD.. It is for the P3S...
The leg antennae on the P3S are 5.8 GHz..
The 2.4 GHz antenna are in the body..
A stock P4P Antennae are dual band 2.4 and 5.8 So they will work for both!
Something likes this "Two for the 2.4ghz(one front one rear)and two for the 5.8 ghz...(One front One rear) " So you would be putting all antenna in the legs like the P3P..