So I got ticketed by Federal Police Officers...(video included)

$50 seems fair I suppose. I get banning drones in parts of NPs where you tend to get a lot of people congregating, old faithful in Yellowstone for example and probably the Arch. I really don't know why they had to make it outright, some of the huge parks are so vast you can hike all day and not see more than 20 people.

I understand that idea, but those rules are already covered by the FAA (ie flying voer people). When I flew at the Arch however, there was literally no one around. So in that respect I was not violating any FAA regulations. It was still plenty bright, no people (I was in an open field), I stayed far away from the Arch and any other structures, etc.

Its an unfortunate law that I would love to see get changed in the future. America's National Parks are beautiful places that would be amazing to fly a drone in as well as provide some great videography / photography opportunities.
 
Certain National Parks/landmarks may also have permanent or temporary flight restrictions as well. I believe the faa sets a TFR around the arch during July 4th activities.


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The Police Officer told me I should not have even been able to fly...He stated the FAA had a GPS fence up (is that a TFR?) Which should have prevented my Drone from taking off. He even asked if it had GPS and I had signal. I even showed him my controller so he could see that I had had a good GPS lock.
 
The answer to this actually is really simple. Once one sets aside their immature demand to always have what they want, realize we all live together in a cooperative society, and cooperate, this is a no-brainer. More on that in a moment.

The concern about a dictatorial state, rules that are simply for the sake of power, blind enforcement of rules, and on and on, are all very legitimate complaints. I'll be among the first to say our society has gone too far with drones, heck, too far in pretty much all domains of life. WAY too far. That said...

This is not one of those cases. The purpose here is clear: To preserve the beauty and peaceful enjoyment of a public monument for the enjoyment of all. It is also abundantly obvious to all but the near clinically insanely antisocial that drones buzzing around the Arch would clearly disturb this entirely reasonable public goal at a public venue.

As such, all this discussion/argument over airspace, the ground, who controls what, etc. is little more than arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It's beside the point. And because it's beside the point, the law will adapt to more closely match "the point" going forward. The best way to hasten that change is to behave as if you don't get "the point" here, and play games like are being discussed -- launch outside the park, buzz the Arch to your heart's content, land outside the park.

Guess what? The Arch will become an NFZ (if it isn't already). Count on it. If you think instead a law will be passed protecting drone access to the arch and punishing tourists, you really are insane :D

And that, my friends, is THE POINT, in general, not just in this case. We share this space, and we all are equally important. We have to accommodate each other. When someone ignores your interests entirely, guess what? You're not going to pay much heed to theirs. This is what's happening with drones as we speak (and fly).

Be aware of the reasons behind restrictions, not just the restriction. Armed with that, seek permission to do what you want to do -- that's how we all "play together". Almost always you'll be able to get that permission, with some constraints, which is how we all accommodate each other.

And sometimes the answer simply is "no", in which case you move on. No one gets everything they want.
 
The Police Officer told me I should not have even been able to fly...He stated the FAA had a GPS fence up (is that a TFR?) Which should have prevented my Drone from taking off. He even asked if it had GPS and I had signal. I even showed him my controller so he could see that I had had a good GPS lock.

The Officer did not really know what he was talking about. The prohibition on flying from National Parks is not an FAA rule, so the FAA would not be putting up any kind fence, including a TFR (unless requested for a special event), or a non-existent GPS fence, whatever that is supposed to be. He was probably confusing it with a DJI NFZ, which, if it were in place, could prevent takeoff. And none of those options have any effect on the GPS signals received at that location - the only way to achieve that would be by local jamming, which would be illegal, impractical, disruptive to navigation systems and dangerous to other air traffic.
 
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AirMap shows Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Park with only the Sequoia part of the Park in red. Kings Canyon National Park to the north of Sequoia N.P. comes up in the green?

Also, interesting reading about the National Forest Service rules about drones here: Unmanned Aircraft Systems | US Forest Service

Unlike the NPS, USFS has always explicitly ceded airspace authority to the FAA, and has no general prohibition on UAS activities, although the rules for designated wilderness areas are the same as for helicopters - overflights are permitted but no takeoff or landing except in life-or-death emergency situations. That's simply the implementation of the more general ban on all mechanized equipment in a designated wilderness.
 
AirMap shows Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Park with only the Sequoia part of the Park in red. Kings Canyon National Park to the north of Sequoia N.P. comes up in the green?

Also, interesting reading about the National Forest Service rules about drones here: Unmanned Aircraft Systems | US Forest Service
After my diatribe above (that probably only I will ever know entirely, who would read such a tome?), I will say that National Forest and other wilderness areas are an example of where I feel the government (and by extension Society) have gone too far -- WAY too far, in restricting access to UAVs.
 
After my diatribe above (that probably only I will ever know entirely, who would read such a tome?), I will say that National Forest and other wilderness areas are an example of where I feel the government (and by extension Society) have gone too far -- WAY too far, in restricting access to UAVs.

UAVs are not prohibited on USFS land - only in designated wilderness areas, which make up less than 20% of the total National Forest land.
 
After my diatribe above (that probably only I will ever know entirely, who would read such a tome?), I will say that National Forest and other wilderness areas are an example of where I feel the government (and by extension Society) have gone too far -- WAY too far, in restricting access to UAVs.
I think you read that post wrong. National Forest and BLM land is good to go. I'd be screwed living it Colorado otherwise. I actually researched this while my drone was in transit and would have sent it back if not.
 
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I thought I read somewhere that the FAA worked with the National Park Service to restrict airspace for drones in national parks, but now for the life of me I can't find where I read that. Maybe I'm losing my mind.

However, the Gateway Arch is also less than 3 miles from the St. Louis Downtown Airport, which is just across the river in Illinois.


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I highly recommend the use of Airmap.

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Thank you for suggesting air map was using the FAA app before you fly, using air maps informed me of some places I was going to visit is restricted


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Rosey,

My son is a law enforcement officer for the National Park Service north of LA. He spent his entire Christmas afternoon chasing down drone users and asking them politely to stop and leave. The policy includes National Parks, National Recreation Areas, National Scenic Rivers, and National Monuments (Gateway Arch is in this catagory).

When the Arch was completed in the early 60's, their were several midnight runs of small planes flying thru the arch. The FAA stepped in fast and closed the airspace, yanked pilot licenses, and locked up the pilots, confiscated the planes.

My son works in a 450,000 acre NRA and deals with this all the time. He uses one when he patrols back country on because a lot of people are using the Department of Interior lands for cocaine labs and marijuana fields. The drug dealers use them to watch for law enforcement trying to find them....or terrorists use them to plan an operation on iconic features of American heritage (arch, Cape Hatteras Lighthouse, Statue of Liberty, etc)

It may be a pain, but I respect their intention as a no fly zone

It scares me everyday he has to go backcountry. He wears his vest, but as he says...the vest does not stop a rifle shot.


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Bendix,

I suspect they were the Law Enforcement branch of the National Park Service. They are part of the Department of Interior. Their is a LE branch for the Bureau of Land Management, the Department of Fish and Game, Department of Indian Affairs....all within the Department of Interior


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Bendix,

I suspect they were the Law Enforcement branch of the National Park Service. They are part of the Department of Interior. Their is a LE branch for the Bureau of Land Management, the Department of Fish and Game, Department of Indian Affairs....all within the Department of Interior


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Yes, I've seen "Law Enforcement" printed on the pickups that the U.S. Forest Service area around me has. I think he gets assigned to any commercial permitted shoot too as a monitor.

I've also seen the rare BNSF Railway Law Enforcement truck too. Don't know what they enforce, maybe some right of way. They were also part of the FAA's 107 committee when they made up all these regulations.
 
Yes, I've seen "Law Enforcement" printed on the pickups that the U.S. Forest Service area around me has. I think he gets assigned to any commercial permitted shoot too as a monitor.
Many people are unaware that there are different classes of officials roaming around National Forests, Parks, etc.

Anyone that is a "Ranger" is an LEO, no less than the cop walking a beat in the city. There are all sorts of Forest and Park service personnel doing all kinds of other things, with official uniforms, but they are not Law Enforcement.
 
I'm at a loss hear the FAA app B4UFly suggest that national parks may have a restriction but do not forbid flying looking at the website posted in this tread , you can fly just follow FAA guidelines please someone clear this up


The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) (link is external) has regulatory authority over all airspace, including recreational use of airspace by model aircraft (See FAA Advisory Circular 91-57) (link is external). The U.S. Forest Service does not have the authority to establish any additional regulations regarding where UAS can or can’t be flown.
Individuals and organizations that fly UAS on National Forest System lands must follow FAA guidance (link is external) – FAA guidance stipulates that UAS not interfere with manned aircraft, be flown within sight of the operator and be operated only for hobby or recreational purposes. The FAA also requires model aircraft operators flying UAS within five miles of an airport to notify the airport operator and air traffic control tower. The FAA’s model aircraft provision apply only to hobby or recreation operations and do not authorize the use of model aircraft for commercial operations. For more information, watch the “Know Before You Fly” video YouTube


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I'm at a loss hear the FAA app B4UFly suggest that national parks may have a restriction but do not forbid flying looking at the website posted in this tread , you can fly just follow FAA guidelines please someone clear this up


The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) (link is external) has regulatory authority over all airspace, including recreational use of airspace by model aircraft (See FAA Advisory Circular 91-57) (link is external). The U.S. Forest Service does not have the authority to establish any additional regulations regarding where UAS can or can’t be flown.
Individuals and organizations that fly UAS on National Forest System lands must follow FAA guidance (link is external) – FAA guidance stipulates that UAS not interfere with manned aircraft, be flown within sight of the operator and be operated only for hobby or recreational purposes. The FAA also requires model aircraft operators flying UAS within five miles of an airport to notify the airport operator and air traffic control tower. The FAA’s model aircraft provision apply only to hobby or recreation operations and do not authorize the use of model aircraft for commercial operations. For more information, watch the “Know Before You Fly” video YouTube
National Forest and BLM land is ok to fly from and not the same jurisdiction as the National Parks service.
 

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