Welcome to PhantomPilots.com

Sign up for a weekly email of the latest drone news & information

Seems I'm screwed!

Discussion in 'Rules and Regulations' started by Timothy Hulme, Sep 25, 2016.

  1. Timothy Hulme

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, Ca
    Hello all,

    Been studying for my part 107 test and just recently bought the P4. My goal has been to start a drone business. Event video, construction survey and maybe real estate. I have been closely focused on the FAA rules evolving and once they became active on the 29th of August I figured I would be able to meet my goal without to much difficulty. However it never occurred to me to more closely check the state of things in my local area.

    After spending many hours on the internet and this forum it seems there is only one place i can fly to practice my skill set without being harassed by police or other authorities. Understand that at this time I'm strictly recreational.

    For the record I live in Huntington Beach CA. so i'm within five miles of John Wayne airport. I can practice at Fairview Park but it requires a permit from the city of Costa Mesa and I must become a member of the AMA in order to get the permit (for insurance coverage). That's all well and good at this time but surely there must be somewhere local that I can practice. I really don't want to have to deal with the soaring club and frequency issues etc. Surely there is a place i can go near by and not be illegal.

    I'm seeking help from the forum to find other locations that don't require me to join AMA or acquire city permits. I would like to hear as well from existing Drone businesses regarding how your able to conduct your business here in the Orange County area. Are all you licensed pilots with 333 waivers? How are you able to survive in this apparent restrictive climate.

    When I read the regs it seems straight forward but gets real confusing when you use an app like B4Ufly and the maps is virtually blanketed with yellow circles.

    I know i'm missing something here. I understand I must contact KSNA tower and inform them of my intentions. Do i need to do that even at Fairview park? What about the soaring guys. Are they required to do the same now? I find it hard to believe the KSNA tower wants to field phone calls all day long from people wanting to fly drones. Understand It's not the tower contact that is confusing me as much as it is the apparent crack down by local cities here in OC (paranoid authorities) and uninformed law enforcement here that has me worried. I don't need a big fine or jail time! Airspace is the perview of FAA not some local city official.

    I read the thread else where in the forum specifically talking about flying in OC. But most of the posts are old and out of date or it seems so based on my research. All I want to do at the moment is practice and not gain the attention of the local police.

    Please help enhance my understanding. Otherwise I guess I will have to return my P4 or put it up for sale to some other uninformed idiot like myself. Sad, because I haven't even charged the batteries yet.

    Thanks,
    Tim
     
    MultiMegalomaniac likes this.
  2. N42742

    Approved Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    131
    Location:
    Atlanta
    I don't know about municipal permits in your area, but under Part 107 all that matters is airspace Class. It's the exact stuff you're studying right now for your FAA exam. You don't have to join AMA. You just need to have your Part 107 certification and the knowledge of airspace Classes, regulations for ops in those airspaces, and authorizations.
     
  3. Timothy Hulme

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, Ca
    I understand that or at least I think I do. But all of it seems trumped by the local cities and the county. Can you elaborate a bit. Do I still call KSNA since I'm recreational at this time.
     
  4. N42742

    Approved Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    131
    Location:
    Atlanta
    As a hobbyist, you would need to contact the airport if you're within a 5 mile radius.
     
  5. Timothy Hulme

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, Ca
    Thanks but... let's say I fly at Fairview Park in Costa Mesa as stated earlier. So I as a drone operator must contact the tower bu thE RC GUYS don't?
     
  6. tcope

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    3,551
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    The AMA members might have an ongoing agreement with the airport to fly at at the local park.

    Flying within 5 miles of an airport requires a phone call and agreement. You may be able to get the same type of on-going agreement.

    Why can't you fly in Huntington Beach? Can you link to the local regulations?
     
  7. Timothy Hulme

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, Ca
    Near as I'm able to find out anyone I talk to says it's a nofly zone. That's why I hoping to hear from locals in my area as well as people running businesses since that is my ultimate goal.
     
  8. N42742

    Approved Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    131
    Location:
    Atlanta
    All the more reason to go ahead and get your Remote Pilot certification.
     
    Falcon900 likes this.
  9. pe9999

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2015
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    houston texas
    If you study the 107 materials good, you can get the certificate even you never touch a quad.
     
    Falcon900 likes this.
  10. Timothy Hulme

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, Ca
    Well I agree 100% and i'm currently doing just that as I noted at the beginning of this post. However you have completed missed my point here. A certificate will not do me any good if I don't even know how to fly my drone. Perhaps I posted in the wrong section. I WAS hoping to find someone here from my local area (Orange County, CA) that knows where to fly and practice without being hassled by the cops or paranoid people who might see my operating and call the cops. AS to the airspace issue. I see you post here a lot so perhaps you can do me a favor and direct me to the correct place to post.

    BTW - I just watched the video you posted in another thread regarding getting authorizations. I get it for commercial work but is that going to be the requirement for recreation as well? At first glance It looked to me like the FAA was working with the drone industry. Now not so sure. How on earth can we as operators (recreational or commercial) be expected to know weeks or months ahead when we will want to fly. More lame government intrusion into our live. Don't get me wrong here. I have no trouble and I'm all for being certified and follow the rules. Just seems like FAA is going out of there way to squash to drone industry thru regulation red tape. It makes perfect sense that Towers don't have time to be bothered fielding calls from drone operator with request to fly. But I can think of several better ways for this to be handled and make the process fast for us and safe for the public. And isn't that the overall goal here.
     
  11. N42742

    Approved Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    131
    Location:
    Atlanta
    It's probably not as bad as you think, Timothy. If you are flying recreationally, there are really only a few rules you need to know and abide by. Take a look at the chart on this page:
    Getting Started

    As far as commercial operations, you won't generally need to know where you want to fly "weeks or months" in advance. If you want to fly in Class G, no authorization required. Just go fly. If you want to fly in Class B, C, D, or Class E surface area, you would need an authorization but these will likely be processed fairly quickly once they get it rolling.
     
  12. RJ_Make

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    Maryland
    I'm within 5 miles of 1 small air strip, 1 small sea-based 'dock', and 1 hospital heliport. I've left messages to confirm contact information for notification and only the sea-based dock responded. I can't even get the others to return my messages to confirm contact information.

    So I'm at the point, right or wrong of just submitting the information to the B4UFly system before each flight session.
     
  13. SoCalDude

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    Warm & sunny Southern California
    I live here, too, and I feel your pain!

    I'm a brand new P4 owner (as of Saturday). After disappointment when I saw the B4UFLY app saying that I need permission to fly most everywhere in this immediate area, I went yesterday to Santiago Canyon for my inaugural flight.

    I'm going to be watching this thread for other HB (and close-by) locations.

     
    Falcon900 likes this.
  14. GMack

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2016
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    147
    Even having one will not get you around a city ordinance banning them. Some CA cities are not drone friendly, and their city councils create some ordinance citing public safety (i.e. Falling out of the sky and hitting someone where the FAA will jump in and claim "reckless flying" too.) or privacy. Even the drone sales shop near Burbank airport has issues (They have a cage to fly them in.) and recommends some parks that allow them in the northern section of LA.

    Safest is to get outside the city limits if you don't want interference matters from public or officials, imho. BLM (desert) land might be a safe area, aside from the winds out there. Forest Service land might tougher if they want to claim wildlife interference issues or something more serious like wildfire TSR matters where drones really seem to annoy them and yet they still fly their drones even though it is illegal around a wildfire area.

    There is this too that might help for LA people: https://blog.hivemapper.com/top-10-places-to-fly-a-drone-in-la-c6b63540864e#.cd8yalt5q

    It's a mess. One side of the street may be legal; but cross it and you are illegal. Welcome to LA.
     
    Falcon900 likes this.
  15. SoCalDude

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    Warm & sunny Southern California
    As a new flyer, I've always wondered about these small, isolated heliports. I do not know how to contact them. There never seems to be anyone around, or I can get past closed gates to get to the heliport.

    I thought I read somewhere that only if an airport or heliport has a control tower, that I need to give notice/ask permission. If there is no tower, does that mean I don't have to contact them?
     
  16. GMack

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2016
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    147
    Some of the non-tower airports have a unicom operator someplace near the field that talks to the planes. How you get a hold of them on the ground is another matter.

    There is a non-tower airport at Kernville near Lake Isabella, but the radio is run by the waitress. If she's busy, you won't get an answer on the radio or phone and they close around 2:30 PM too. Fox Field in Lancaster has a tower, but no one in it anymore but likely someone there runs the unicom radio but good luck finding out who. Sometimes there is an airport manager, but they are also hard to find.

    And now some towers are telling people to "Contact the FAA as they're busy." Entire thing is sort of a mess.
     
  17. N42742

    Approved Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    131
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Look up the airport in the A/FD. There will be a name and phone number for someone filling the Airport Manger role.
     
  18. Timothy Hulme

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, Ca
    @N42742: not everyone in here is a CFII. You really need to describe what A/FD means for those that don't know. I was close to signing up for your drone course but your responses to my thread have me doubting that decision. The primary purpose of this forum should be to help people rather than post one sentence replies in order to promote your course. BTW, I was a pilot until 1999 when I medicaled out.

    @SoCalDude: thanks for your reply. Nice to know I'm not the only one in HB trying to sort this mess out. I went to John Wayne today to the airport admin office to try to get some clear answers. In short there are none. The people I talked to are clueless. I got email addresses to a couple of people at the top in operations but we will see if I even get replies. I suspect I won't. Where abouts are you in HB? I'm at Bushard and Atlanta. 4.37 miles from KSNA. I think the ATC directive coming October 3, 2016 is just going to make matters worse.

    To everyone else... this is life in the wonderland of ORANGE COUNTY CA. also known as NANNYLAND. Those of you in other parts of the country just won't understand. N42742 would have us believe things will sort themselves out. Hell this is the government we are talking about here. Evidence the fact that the Part 107 went into effect end of August. Stating within 5 miles you contact ATC. But now a new directive comes out to ATC October 3rd telling ATC to send us to FAA online site to make our requests. Someone in FAA couldn't see this was a conflict ahead of time. The person who wrote the directive likely has an office right next door to the person you wrote part 107.

    The FAA app B4Ufly is a bit misleading as well. As SoCalDude acknowledged we are blanketed in yellow circles. I have read the FAA rules several times and there is nothing there about heliports, helipads or closed airbases. All of which show up on the app for my local. Plus when you have uninformed or misinformed police you have a recipe for trouble. Something SoCalDude and I would like to avoid.

    I'll get off my soapbox for now.
     
    Stealth Tours likes this.
  19. SoCalDude

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    Warm & sunny Southern California
    I'm off Beach, between Adams and Indianapolis (at Seabridge) and I'm outside the 5-mile radius of KSNA. In fact, using this map, I'm good to go (FAA-wise, not necessarily HB-wise).
     
  20. SoCalDude

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    Warm & sunny Southern California
    What did you find?