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Photography Bay talks about the Phantom flyaway Issue

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by CameraGuy, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. CameraGuy

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  2. FangsCPO

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    I don't discount that there is an issue and the underlying issue should be investigated but what bothers me is when I read that someone has had two flyaways. What are the odds of that happening to the same person with two different units.. Anyone would quickly think, this person has to be doing something wrong or there is something in his location missing up his radio signal. Just odd.
     
  3. martcerv

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    Darren Im sorry to say but having you trying to push your case as something more then it was and that I see as being a new user losing control and flying in a high risk area for radio interference. I really don't see what your trying to achieve, GPS is not guaranteed to give perfect signals at all time and this cant be relied upon in such an area. Flying amongst buildings and near power line's is very high risk for interference to the radio signal and the powerlines may also have effected the gps in some way this will easily freak out the NAZA in GPS mode.

    I don't see your example showing any definitive case of a completely random out of control issue that hasn't in any way been caused by user error. Your not the first person ever to lose control of a multirotor or any rc device due to signal interference and people with story's like yours should teach people more about the possible hazards of flying multirotors for beginners then anything else.
     
  4. Alex

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    Can you please post the video without voice over so we can hear the engines?
     
  5. CameraGuy

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    Well, the difference was ONLY the Phantom. The radio was the same one - the stock radio that comes with the Phantom. The other major difference was the firmware. The second one happened under 3.12, while the first one was prior to that Some version of 2.x.x, I don't remember.

    I have about 60 flights under my belt, and while that's not as many as some have, it does not make me inexperienced.

    I would like to accept blame for this, but when you take my experience into context with others who also had fly aways, there is more than anecdotal evidence to suggest there is an issue with the NAZA controller that DJI don't want to talk about.

    I've had my rear end kicked for publicizing this more than I would ever have expected.

    Sad really.

    Not sure what to do about it. I guess I'm in the wrong, and should just stop.

    OK, off the soapbox.

    Darren
     
  6. martcerv

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    Its obvious you lost control and something went wrong, I just dont see how DJI is at fault and what you expect them to say to you. You need to understand possible risks and how to either avoid them or deal with them as they come up.

    If you get radio interference its by no way a fault of DJI as I dont think anyone sells any radio transmitter or receiver giving a guarantee it will work everywhere without interference. GPS should also never be relied upon 100% and should just be used as an aid but you should be able to fly without GPS if you want to fly in such high risk location.

    Only the GPS modes require the compass to work properly so flying near powerlines in GPS mode is asking for trouble, if you get magnetic interference to the compass GPS is screwed. The NAZA cant fly GPS mode if it gets a faulty compass reading and turning off the tx or RTH is the last thing you should do if in GPS mode and it freaks out. RTH needs the GPS to work and obviously either GPS has failed or you has interference to your radio signal. Best to learn to fly in atti and manual modes or only fly GPS in places without obstructions such as large trees, buildings or mountains if you need to rely on the GPS and compass as they wont work properly in many locations.
     
  7. GoodnNuff

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    At the end of the "fly away" when you find your Phantom at the base of the tree, one prop is off (an aftermarket prop you had to use a prop reamer on) and the prop nut missing.
    Do you really think DJI is going to look at this and wonder why they are being blamed for a loose prop nut and shoddy pre-flight check? Because you'll have a difficult time, in my opinion, convincing them this is a "fly away" and not pilot error.
     
  8. CameraGuy

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    Are you really trying to convince me, and the other hundreds if not thousands of users who suddenly lost control this issue is all Pilot error? Do you really believe that?

    You have also read me say here, and on other posts that I did a complete pre-flight, and checked the prop nuts tightness. Want to know why I can be so sure of that? I always check the balance of my props before flight. ALWAYS. So they were tight. The preflight was text book, as per DJI's tutorials.

    I'm not the only one who experienced this. I'm sorry, I'm just not the only one. You are on other threads, on other forums, you have seen the postings of others, you have seen the polls, you must have a wider range of knowledge than you are pretending not to have.

    The prop was not reamed - at least not by me. It was sent to me by a reputable dealer, who drilled out the prop, did a pre balance and I bought it. It's not the prop. The prop was on it when it hit the tree

    Since you have taken an aggressive approach to attacking me at every opportunity - and on every forum you have had a chance, how about you answer a couple of questions for a change.

    1. Why do you believe that all of these fly aways are pilot error.

    2. Why do you believe that DJI has no responsibility to the thousands of customers who use their products to make them as safe and as good as possible.

    3. Lastly, why do you have a hatred for me specifically. Did I do something to you in this or another past life?

    I just don't get it. It's not simply GoodnNuff.

    D
     
  9. CameraGuy

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    Thanks for the suggestion Alex, but no, I'm not going to re-edit the video. There is just too much work, and all it will do is create another opportunity for the haters out there to kick my rear end for something. My rear end is getting mighty sore, and I'm tired of it.

    I must say, at this point I regret this entire attempt to help solve an issue that I and others have experienced. The overwhelming response has been negative.

    All I wanted to do was to get DJI to make a better product. All I am getting is crap and personal attacks.

    It hasn't been worth the man hours I have put into it.

    If you think it was pilot error, great, I'm fine with taking the blame.

    I hope it never happens to anyone else, that would prove it's all me.

    So, I guess I'm saying no. I won't do any more work on this. It has eaten a considerable amount of my time, energy and money.

    Thanks again.

    Darren
     
  10. GoodnNuff

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    Darren,
    I haven't attacked you. You take my posts as attacks. You said a gimbal needs to be "mandatory" and I said I didn't think a gimbal needed to be mandatory - you claimed my different opinion was an attack on you.
    It wasn't. It was a different opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
    I don't belong to any other forums to attack you in either. If you are being attacked in other
    Forums, please do not blame me for that.

    You may very well have had a fly away when you lost your first Phantom. I don't know. It is entirely possible.
    However on this video the fact that you have lost a prop nut and a prop makes it difficult to objectively conclude that the crash was due to a fly away and not a prop nut that was not tight and secure prior to taking off.

    Please explain the physics involved in a crash that would undo/loosen/unthread the prop nut and remove the prop from the motor AFTER the "fly away" caused crash? Help me to understand how that would happen?
    I'm not the only person to have questioned this.

    I don't believe that. I do believe many are due to pilot error and inexperience.

    I have never said any such thing. I have said that your video with a missing prop nut and prop is not going to do anything to change DJI's belief in whether or not "fly always" are a problem because I don't believe it offers any evidence of a "fly away."

    Truly Darren, I have no hatred for you, no animosity towards you.
    I've simply not agreed with you on two topics now.
     
  11. martcerv

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    Darren dont take discussion on your flight as a personal attack, you brought it out with intent to try and get DJI to respond to the "flyaway" issue.

    Not many agree with your conclusion which really is only you blaming DJI and accepting no part in the issues you had. Your video is very in conclusive and there are just way too many variables that suggest more is at play here then what would be a classic flyaway. It shows possible faults on your part and poor flying location for the craft as it was flown, there is no way you could rule out pilot error here so its just not a great example to show this issue.

    Even if this was a flyaway how could anyone use this to fix the issue as with the information given there is no clear cause of your crash. If it cant be determined exactly what caused the issue how can DJI possibly do anything to fix it, if we find an issue that is repeatable then its fixable but you cant use your video for anything other then showing the dangers of flying a quad in such an area with a phantom and your level of experience.
     
  12. CameraGuy

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    Thanks for your comment. It really helped.

    D
     
  13. Alex

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    I wish you'd reconsider, and I'm not suggesting that you spend any time at all editing the video. Just plain old raw footage would be really helpful. I'd like to hear the motors which could support your theory that there was a flyaway. It might also support the theory that the prop nut came loose and the shaft began to spin inside the prop,causing a loss of lift at the corner.
     
  14. CameraGuy

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    Alex,

    http://youtu.be/A2wPuaYsp5E


    You want more fuel for the fire huh. OK, I'm obviously not that smart, so here you go. It's an unlisted link to the flyaway footage. No narration, single camera, no graphics except for intro and copyright.

    Have at it.

    I have been constantly under attack since I put this up first nearly 2 weeks ago. I know the prop nut was tight. No amount of my trying to convince anyone it was has worked so far.

    The problem with the internet is it allows people to be completely unaccountable for their words. When I made the video, I thought I was doing something helpful. The attacks have just got me down to the point that I won't do any more on this subject. I'll PM someone who needs help, or who I think I can help. I'll ask a question about something, but clearly, me trying to demonstrate what happened just upset people.

    Want to read my fan mail? Go visit rcgroups. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1955918

    18 pages, 260 messages - most of them crapping on me. Read the threads here. Some of the people actually needed to follow me here to make the same comments. I have some 30 attacks that came personally through a pm, and email. I had to disable the comments on that YouTube Page because they were coming there too.

    If you don't have to look someone in the eye face to face, I've learned that anything can be said on line. RC Groups are full of hatemongers and bullies. I hope the moderator here does not allow the same to happen here.

    So, like I said earlier, OK, pilot error. My fault. Select one of the options below

    1. Newbie who didn't know what he was doing
    2. Idiot who flew too close to a building
    3. Idiot who flew with powerlines in sight
    4. Idiot who didn't do a proper pre-flight
    5. Idiot who didn't tighten his props
    6. Idiot who didn't build his own, so he shouldn't be flying in the first place
    7. Idiot who thought DJI was a good manufacturer
    8. Idiot who trusted NAZA controller

    Pick the one you like the best. I'm fine with it.

    DJI doesn't care. They didn't even respond to my email. I've purchased 2 of these. so I've spent $1500 just on DJI product, never mind the 2 gopros, gimbals, and the new radio I just bought. All in, I think I have about $4K.

    To all those who helped me sort this out. To those that provided helpful advice, I want to extend my heartfelt thanks and gratitude. It was great. I appreciate the support I got, and I do agree that hopefully a better radio will solve the problem.
     
  15. CameraGuy

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    That's what the dealer said. I do remember in my own home in 2008, If the Microwave oven was on it would kill our WiFi network. We just wrote it off to coincidence, but perhaps there was a more serious problem.

    Do you know what libal is? You are using it out of context I believe.

    Darren
     
  16. CameraGuy

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    Where did I publish that?

    What I said, and I stand by it, is that it appears the radio equipment seems to be the weak link in the DJI Phantom.

    That would be an opinion, and I am entitled to one.

    I am also on record as asking DJI for help. They did nothing when I lost the first on and they have ignored this one.

    That is fact. I can prove it.

    What part is libelous or slanderous, as I suspect you are the same fellow who accused people of slander on RC Groups.

    It's OK if you love DJI. I like their products too., I just want them to work they way Colin and his team say they do. So far there are far too many reports of flyaways.

    You can't dispute the flyaways can you?


    Darren