Notify Airport / Tower with a radio.

Richard R · Jan 5, 2017

Look at the quote that vvatc posted. Radios not in an aircraft require a license, so handheld = license.

dcoski · Jan 5, 2017

You are right, but I am required by law to notify three airports within three miles of my house every time I fly and I suppose that I should do that every time I take-off. None of these airport are used at this time of year (three foot of snow). It would be good if I could call up on my radio that is licence to my A/C my intentions.

InforGuy · Jan 5, 2017

Richard R said:
Did your FAA approval specifically say that you were to notify the tower via radio and give you specific frequencies to use? Do you have to contact approach control and/or ground control? What information before, during and after do you have to give the tower? Hand held fm transmitters have a limited range (line of sight), but if you are that close, it may not matter. And as mentioned above, have you checked out the FCC license requirements? Believe that you will, as a minimum, have to have a ground station license.

Here is word-for-word the stipulations for coordination requirements in case you are interested. I am going to be very close - in a restricted zone as a matter of fact so I will need to take DJI's unlocking process for a spin.

a. At least two hours prior to flight, the UA operator must FAX a map to ATCT at FAX number xxx with the following information:
i) Name of the operator
ii) Date and time frame of intended operations
iii) Maximum altitude requested
iv) Name and phone number to POC onsite who can cancel operations if needed.

b. 30 minutes prior to flight, the UA operator shall contact ATCT at xxx to confirm fax was received and gain Supervisor/Controller-In-Charge approval.

c. If the UA operator desires an altitude higher than 200 feet, inform the Supervisor/Controller-In-Charge of the request.

d. If approval for the flight is granted the UA operator will be issued the tower frequency.

e. The UA operator must contact the tower controller on frequency to gain real time approval to start operations. Approval for altitudes higher than 200 feet will be approved/denied in real time on frequency

f. The PIC must notify ATCT on frequency when flight operations have been completed or terminated for the day.

N017RW · Jan 5, 2017

Can you cite source?

Context is important.

InforGuy · Jan 5, 2017

N017RW said:
Can you cite source?

Context is important.

Not sure I understand your question. I took this straight out of the Certificate of Waiver/Authorization I just received for Class D. It was in response to Richard R's question.

VVATC · Jan 5, 2017

N017RW said:
An sUAS (drone) operator is not, by virtue of his/her FAA registration, authorized to operate radio equipment or stations on the Aviation bands.

Is someone who holds a PPL required to have an FCC license to operate the radio on an aircraft? If I go to the local FBO and rent an aircraft, do I need to have a radio operators license specific to that aircraft?

Sorry if it doesn't make sense to you presently but that's the way it is.

Just because you say "that's the way it is" doesn't make it so. I'm having a genuine discussion about the requirement of a UAS pilot being licensed to use an aviation radio but all you seem to be saying is "no" you can't do that. When I ask why, you told me to go research it myself which, in my mind, is code for "I don't know."

What is the point of this?

The point is, unless you have factual information regarding why a UAS pilot is not allowed to use a radio on the aircraft band, then I'm inclined to believe that this is a subject which has yet to be addressed and there is no definitive answer.

VVATC · Jan 5, 2017

Richard R said:
Look at the quote that vvatc posted. Radios not in an aircraft require a license, so handheld = license.

So you think that the phrase "aboard aircraft operating domestically" does not include a radio which is part of a UAS? I've always understood that Unmannned Aerial System includes ALL systems - the controller, the radio, the aircraft, the camera, etc.

I've looked at the FCC's website regarding ground stations and I haven't seen anything that looks like it would describe a handheld radio for comms with ATC.

InforGuy · Jan 5, 2017

For what it's worth, this topic peaked my interest so I reached out to the FAA employee that approved my authorization. Again, for what it's worth.

"No licensees are required (can you imagine over a million VFR radio requests? FCC would shut down).

You are of course required to follow the Rules of The Road when talking on the radio but that’s should be a given to anyone in aviation.

Fly safe."

Sent from my SM-G928V using PhantomPilots mobile app

VVATC · Jan 5, 2017

I called the FCC earlier. They gave me a "case number" and the topic is being researched. I'm sure I'll hear back within the next decade...

N017RW · Jan 5, 2017

VVATC said:
So you think that the phrase "aboard aircraft operating domestically" does not include a radio which is part of a UAS? I've always understood that Unmannned Aerial System includes ALL systems - the controller, the radio, the aircraft, the camera, etc.

I've looked at the FCC's website regarding ground stations and I haven't seen anything that looks like it would describe a handheld radio for comms with ATC.

Just cause you can't doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
FCC: Wireless Services: Aircraft Stations: Operations

A cut/paste from the very top of the page linked above:

"You may only use your hand-held aircraft VHF radio in your aircraft under the terms of your aircraft license. You are required to have a separate Ground Station license to operate your radio on the ground."

VVATC · Jan 5, 2017

N017RW said:
A cut/paste from the very top of the page linked above:

"You may only use your hand-held aircraft VHF radio in your aircraft under the terms of your aircraft license. You are required to have a separate Ground Station license to operate your radio on the ground."

What if you're taxing a manned aircraft. Are you allowed to use a handheld radio? You're on the ground...

N017RW · Jan 5, 2017

Well, now you know where to look so I'll let you go now.

VVATC · Jan 5, 2017

N017RW said:
Well, now you know where to look so I'll let you go now.

The intent of the ground station license is for an FBO. In fact, if you follow the links which you provided it will take you here which discusses aviation services.

When you follow the next link to "more about ground stations" on that page, it returns you to the original link I posted.

That page discusses aeronautical and fixed services, aviation auxiliary groups, and aeronautical radio navigation...none of which mentions or has anything to do with UASs and/or hand held radios being part of a UAS sytem.

It's my argument that a hand-held radio, along with the controls of a ROA, and the ROA itself, make up the entire UAS.

But if you want to read one sentence of the FCC's website as if it were the letter of the law (which we can all agree that it is NOT) then you are not allowed to use a hand held radio while taxing a manned aircraft because it's on the ground. That just sounds silly.

Great_Lakes · Jan 6, 2017

Ok, I've been reading all of these posts and have a question that if you answer it may settle the issue once and for all. To November017RomeoWhiskey: With that username I assume you're a pilot.

This quote:

"On October 25, 1996, the FCC released a Report and Order in WT Docket No. 96-82 (text) eliminating the individual licensing requirement for all aircraft, including scheduled air carriers, air taxis and general aviation aircraft operating domestically. This means that you do not need a license to operate a two-way VHF radio, radar, or emergency locator transmitter (ELT) aboard aircraft operating domestically. All other aircraft radio stations must be licensed by the FCC either individually or by fleet."

Blue highlighted text Seems to tell me that the need for a license for a pilot to transmit domestically was eliminated. It covers airlines, taxis and the average Joe pilot flying a Cessna for fun. But It also uses the words "aboard aircraft", which would indicate you're the pilot and you're flying the aircraft. So No license required for a pilot to talk on the radio when flying in the U.S.

Now, the text in Red; "All other aircraft" must be licensed. What is "All other aircraft"? I assume that to be drones or other "unmanned" aircraft then. Is that, in your opinion a correct assumption?

Thanks.

N017RW · Jan 6, 2017

When you are in a passenger carrying aircraft (the blue text you quoted) you no longer need a personally issued license. The plane's registration is the FCC ID/Call sign. This is regardless of if the radio is in the dash or in your hand.

If you are not in an aircraft your station will need a license.
You omitted that word from your question.

So maybe a banner-tow company has a base station to talk to their pilot(s)... that station needs a license. This provides an/a ID/Call sign.

VVATC · Jan 6, 2017

InforGuy said:
e. The UA operator must contact the tower controller on frequency to gain real time approval to start operations. Approval for altitudes higher than 200 feet will be approved/denied in real time on frequency

They're having snowball fights in hell because I just got an answer from the FCC, via email, WITHIN 24 HOURS OF MY CALL!

From the email:

Summary: Filing Instructions - Application

Solution Description: Dear Mr. Turner,

If your FAA Certificate of Authorization (COA) specifically requires you to maintain radio contact with the control tower, then you should apply for a portable aircraft station license, and provide a copy of the COA. We will then grant the license with a special condition limiting the authorized communications to communication with the tower. Communications with airmen from the ground are not permitted under the Commission's current rules.

Richard R · Jan 6, 2017

VVATC said:
They're having snowball fights in hell because I just got an answer from the FCC, via email, WITHIN 24 HOURS OF MY CALL!

From the email:

Seems to confirm the consensus. Handheld ground radio requires a license. At least the FCC is willing to work with you. I wouldn't wait, no telling how long it might take to get the license.

MTNestr · Jan 6, 2017

Let me clarify my original question:

I live near a small airport without a control tower. I believe the airport is staffed during the daytime. When I was a student pilot I would call in on UNICOM. Sometimes I would get a response from the airport but many times no response.

My recent research seems to say that the airport has exclusive use of the UNICOM Frequency and that the airport can give permission to use handheld radios on the frequency and if so I would not need a license because I would be using their license.

Does this make any sense?

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