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Advanced Jello on Sunny Days

Discussion in 'Phantom 3 Help' started by JdotB, Jun 4, 2015.

  1. JdotB

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    I noticed that I get annoying shuddering on my videos when flying on sunny days. I thought it was a gimbal issue, or camera settings, but now I think it might be fixable with an ND filter. I haven't got a clue what kind of filter to get. I'm shooting in 720, 60 fps. I started at 1080/60, but found my PC couldn't handle it so I dumbed it down for now. Have a look at this video. Any input is appreciated.
     
  2. Ground Chuck

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    Did you balance your props?
     
  3. JdotB

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    I'm waiting for my prop balancer to do the left hand (black) props. The right hand (silver) props were perfect. The video is super stable on cloudy days. Wind doesn't seem to be a factor.
     
  4. spankybear

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    Shutter speed will effect jello. On a sunny day your shutter speed will be higher and this will make jello worse. A ND filter will help bring the shutter speed down. Rule of thumb is you want a shutter speed twice the frame rate. 30fps 1/60 24fps 1/50 (round up) and so on. This should give you the best picture.

    Also with the sunny day F16 rule you will want to reduce your exposure about 5 stops
     
  5. JdotB

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    Hey Spank. Thanks for the tips. I always shoot in Auto, but it might be time for me to learn a bit about the manual settings.
     
  6. spankybear

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    It fairly easy to use the manual setting on the P3 as you only have ISO and shutter speed to adjust.

    You can also experiment with settings when you film. Just remember that a lower ISO is for more light... 100 ISO on a sunny day 1000 or somewhere in between when it's darker out. Use the ISO to get the shutter speed you want. Say it's evening and you want 1/50th of a second, you can bump of the ISO to get that.

    A ND filter cuts light (think of sun glasses for you camera) again so you can adjust your shutter speed slower.

    play with it... bump up your ISO and shutter speed on a sunny day and note the jello you get.

    You will need to use your exposure meter when in manual and that is in the app... You'll get the hang of it when you play around...
     
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  7. happydays

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    I think it was a high wind blowing the buildings around and making them wobble.
     
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  8. aburkefl

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    Your comment made me laugh. Also made me think of wind blowing the trees around and blaming "fisheye" effect when shooting with a GoPro. Reminded me of many years ago - remember the program (the comedy version) "Wings?" Two bumbling guys had a small one-plane airline on Martha's Vineyard.

    One day they were trying to move something and it was in tight quarters. Someone suggested if they just had one really strong guy, their problems would be solved.

    Lowell: "What we need is some of those people I saw last night. Those people were moving trees around by themselves."
    Roy: "Lowell, you idiot, those were Bonzai trees!"
    Lowell: "Say what you will, Roy, those were really big people!"
    LOL
     
  9. Trumple

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    Sounds like something DJI would tell us :D
     
  10. ItsAKirkBeat

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    Have you received your prop balancer yet? Im having a similar problem. it shouldn't be happening and shouldn't have to work around it by using slower shutter speeds to mask the problem
     
  11. spankybear

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    Using a slower shutter speed is not a work around. It's the nature of the beast with a rolling shutter. You need to understand how and why you get jello. Also if you want to have your videos to look like a production crew you will need to follow the 2 times frame rate rule of thumb. This is film making 101.

    Watch this
     
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  12. spankybear

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    Here is another video you should watch about shutter speed.

    Again this is not a work around

     
  13. ItsAKirkBeat

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    I know how shutter speeds work, 180 degree rule, all of that stuff. The problem is the aircraft vibrating. There are thousands of other people that do not have this problem at all. The lower shutter speed is just masking the problem but it is still there just smoothed out. Plenty of videos of people with smooth flights in broad day light with no jello effect from the aircraft. It's has to to be related to unbalanced props, or a faulty gimbal, dampeners, something. Just havent figured out my case yet. My prop balancer is on the way. Funny thing with mine is my first couple flights seemed ok. Nothing has happened to the aircraft i take care if it like a baby. Im confused, i couldnt imagine the props going off balance. Trying to get to the bottom of it though
     
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  14. spankybear

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    Sorry you do not understand rolling shutter or how a CMOS image sensor works. There is no 180° rule to say.

    Thanks OK... Please post of video of how unbalanced your props are. If I was a gambling man I would bet that your props are not that unbalanced, that is if they are undamaged as you say...

    When you do get the the bottom of this please post your findings... Also please post your exposure for your videos.
     
  15. ItsAKirkBeat

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    I understand exactly how rolling shutter works. I've shot and owned canon t2i, 5d mkiii and currently own Sony a7s which is arguably the worst rolling shutter on a dslr. I know the vibration issue is a problem and I fully understand how slower shutter speeds covers up the jello effect. For the price I just want product that works like the rest Ive seen withouth th problem. Yes I've seen people videos where there shutter speed is 1/1000 and higher and there is no jello. This is the 180 degree I was referring to. http://www.thevideomode.com/tuition/how-shutter-speeds-work-when-shooting-video-263/
     
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  16. ItsAKirkBeat

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    Also yes the jello is less aparent when the shutter speed is slower but the quality is still degraded and turns into more a a blur than a noticebale jello. This is a problem a lot of people are not having. Broad daylight. No ND filters with super fast shutter speeds
     
  17. Trumple

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    I think you're both right - jello effect is the nature of the beast, but I also agree that some have it worse than others. I get lots of jello during the golden hours, when it's supposed to be minimised, whereas I see a lot of videos in broad daylight with little or no jello.

    I have noticed that in high wind, my Phantom shakes around a lot. It begins to resonate but is countered quickly by the FC. As such, I only get short bursts of jello, much like most people. This leads me to believe that unbalanced props are to blame. Even small differences in balance can lead to big vibrations. Wind will also amplify the issue.

    Please keep us updated on your success with prop balancing. In the meantime, try swapping out all your props for the spare set, see if that helps at all. Could just be one bad prop.
     
  18. MTPM Delaware

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    If this occurs on sunny days, and especially mid-day when the sun is more vertical, this is a strobe effect of the sunlight passing through the propellors. You can make or buy an inexpensive lens shade. Combined with an ND filter to slow the shutter speed, should reduce this problem.
     
  19. JdotB

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    ND filter fixed the problem.
     
  20. dynamo

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    Yes, it can be related to unbalanced props, etc. The "something" that will always be the cause is Rolling Shutter. The only true solution is to use a camera that has a Global Shutter.
    The fact of the matter is that "Jello" can not be 100% eliminated when using a Rolling Shutter camera. Editing software will never be a perfect fix either.
     
    #20 dynamo, Apr 15, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016