is this legit loophole for hobbyist offering aerials??

[ribjig]

As a hobbyist nearing end of first year P4P+ ownership,
am imagining day someone approaches me wanting to
know how much to take aerials & when I say I don't have
required licencing to make $$ from images they respond,
"why don't I pay you for hand-held shots of _______ & then
later you can take aerials & give them to me free?"

It could be a farmer, a property owner, a business owner,
an event organizer, or whatever...

 

[LarBear360]

As a hobbyist nearing end of first year P4P+ ownership,
am imagining day someone approaches me wanting to
know how much to take aerials & when I say I don't have
required licencing to make $$ from images they respond,
"why don't I pay you for hand-held shots of _______ & then
later you can take aerials & give them to me free?"

It could be a farmer, a property owner, a business owner,
an event organizer, or whatever...

I don't think so. It's like the girls on Craigs List claiming the exchange of money is for companionship only, not for sex. But then you get sex and the girl gets arrested!

 

[ribjig]

It's like the girls on Craigs List claiming...

If the farmer is an undercover FAA agent,
then yes, its the same...

 

[LuvMyTJ]

As a hobbyist nearing end of first year P4P+ ownership,
am imagining day someone approaches me wanting to
know how much to take aerials & when I say I don't have
required licencing to make $$ from images they respond,
"why don't I pay you for hand-held shots of _______ & then
later you can take aerials & give them to me free?"

It could be a farmer, a property owner, a business owner,
an event organizer, or whatever...

No. It has been asked many times. People used to try to claim they gave the footage for free and only charged for the editing. The FAA see's right through that stuff. Read the description for hobby flying... it is purely for fun & relaxation. The minute you sell or give away you need your Part 107.

 

[JoeNewbe]

The so called free photos are part of a package deal for which you received payment.

 

[tcope]

Yes, you can attempt to scam your way around the FAA, a large governmental body with legal authority. Nothing bad could happen. You can feel free to make your argument in front of a Federal Judge.

 

[sar104]

As a hobbyist nearing end of first year P4P+ ownership,
am imagining day someone approaches me wanting to
know how much to take aerials & when I say I don't have
required licencing to make $$ from images they respond,
"why don't I pay you for hand-held shots of _______ & then
later you can take aerials & give them to me free?"

It could be a farmer, a property owner, a business owner,
an event organizer, or whatever...

No, as explained above. Why don't you just get your Part 107? It's not difficult.

 

[Meta4]

"why don't I pay you for hand-held shots of _______ & then
later you can take aerials & give them to me free?"

It would take the FAA less than a microsecond to see through that master plan if you ever ever came to their attention.
If you were to sell aerial imagery, you may as well sell it without the lame-*** fiction because it wouldn't have any effect except to make you look silly.

 

[Indiana_pyro]

Get your 107 and be done with it.

 

[BigAl07]

As a hobbyist nearing end of first year P4P+ ownership,
am imagining day someone approaches me wanting to
know how much to take aerials & when I say I don't have
required licencing to make $$ from images they respond,
"why don't I pay you for hand-held shots of _______ & then
later you can take aerials & give them to me free?"

It could be a farmer, a property owner, a business owner,
an event organizer, or whatever...

It has NOTHING to do with making $$ (contrary to what many believe and try to spread on the internet). It has 100% to do with the INTENT of the flight. If you're flying to take pictures/vid for any reason other than Hobby/Recreational then it requires a Part 107 RPIC certificate. No exceptions or loopholes for the hobbyist.

 

[rock0305]

I have teenagers who sometimes spend more time and energy looking for loopholes than it would take to just follow the rules. No offense but I think this could be considered one of those times.

 

[lonewolf41]

Can you do both? Can you fly under 107 for profit but once you have the 107 certification, are you never allowed to fly under hobbyist...even on your own time? Say I want to take video of us boating on the weekend...or whatever...am I bound to always fly under 107 rules even when for my own recreation?

 

[BigAl07]

Can you do both? Can you fly under 107 for profit but once you have the 107 certification, are you never allowed to fly under hobbyist...even on your own time? Say I want to take video of us boating on the weekend...or whatever...am I bound to always fly under 107 rules even when for my own recreation?

You make the determination before each and every flight of which one you fly under. Then once the flight starts the entire flight must be carried out within those guidelines/regulations.

For instance you can't take off under HOBBY guidelines (for instance flying at night) and then decide "Oh I want to fly for $$". It's kind of silly at times but suffice to say many of us flying both Part 107 and Hobby on a daily basis. You just can not Mix/Match them within a single flight.

 

[ribjig]

Three Points:

a. Part 107 or whatever is NOT at all easy
for non-pilot-oriented drone hobbyists, if it was...
b. OP is about very occasional scenarios, as in,
a few time annually
c. isn't there already an FAA-rule-mentioned
exception called "citizen journalist" when
hobbyists "happen upon" news related
situations...? Is "news" defined as hard news
or does less intense news qualify, too, such as
community news, rural news, travel news,
weather news, etc etc.?

 

[BigAl07]

Three Points:

a. Part 107 or whatever is NOT at all easy
for non-pilot-oriented drone hobbyists, if it was...
b. OP is about very occasional scenarios, as in,
a few time annually
c. isn't there already an FAA-rule-mentioned
exception called "citizen journalist" when
hobbyists "happen upon" news related
situations...? Is "news" defined as hard news
or does less intense news qualify, too, such as
community news, rural news, travel news,
weather news, etc etc.?

A) Wrong it can be very easy as MANY members here can attest to.

B) Occasionally does not make it any less ILLEGAL. I only OCCASIONALLY rob a bank.. is that ok?

C) Big difference between "happen to take a picture" and taking off with the intent to take a picture. It's black and white.

News is news is news and that doesn't matter. INTENT of the flight is what matters.

 

[BigAl07]

c. isn't there already an FAA-rule-mentioned
exception called "citizen journalist" when
hobbyists "happen upon" news related
situations...? Is "news" defined as hard news
or does less intense news qualify, too, such as
community news, rural news, travel news,
weather news, etc etc.?

Also if you go to a scene in order to take aerials with the intent to send them to a news agency you are operating under Part 107 guidelines. Taking pictures for someone else (a person or a news organization) is in no way Hobby/Recreational but falls under CIVIL flights which require Part 107 or a Public Use COA. You can't have you cake and eat it too.

 

[Sagebrush]

If someone was doing that in my market, and it continued, I might, toy with dropping a dime on them.

Why don't you just get legal? Educate yourself and take the 107 test.

SB

 

[BigAl07]

If someone was doing that in my market, and it continued, I might, toy with dropping a dime on them.

Why don't you just get legal? Educate yourself and take the 107 test.

SB

Nailed it

 

[dangerd]

As a hobbyist nearing end of first year P4P+ ownership,
am imagining day someone approaches me wanting to
know how much to take aerials & when I say I don't have
required licencing to make $$ from images they respond,
"why don't I pay you for hand-held shots of _______ & then
later you can take aerials & give them to me free?"

It could be a farmer, a property owner, a business owner,
an event organizer, or whatever...

The law says "in furtherance of a business".
It doesn't matter if you take money, a hot dog, or a hand shake. It is the intent to further your or anyone else business makes it illegal.

 

[sar104]

The law says "in furtherance of a business".
It doesn't matter if you take money, a hot dog, or a hand shake. It is the intent to further your or anyone else business makes it illegal.

Actually the law doesn't mention furthering a business - although that is one of the FAA's various examples of interpretation. Section 336 of Public Law 112–95 (The FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012) says:

(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—

(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
​

The implementation, in 14 CFR Part 101 Subpart E, says, similarly:

§101.41 Applicability.

This subpart prescribes rules governing the operation of a model aircraft (or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft) that meets all of the following conditions as set forth in section 336 of Public Law 112-95:

(a) The aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;​

So sUAS flights that do not meet that description fall under 14 CFR Part 107:

§107.1 Applicability.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, this part applies to the registration, airman certification, and operation of civil small unmanned aircraft systems within the United States.​

(b) This part does not apply to the following:​

(1) Air carrier operations;

(2) Any aircraft subject to the provisions of part 101 of this chapter; or

(3) Any operation that a remote pilot in command elects to conduct pursuant to an exemption issued under section 333 of Public Law 112-95, unless otherwise specified in the exemption.​