Is the following an invasion of Privacy?

[outer limits]

I am very surprised SOME of the members even have a drone, or should be members of the anti drone club or something; as listening to their philosophy of this subject, They would need to take out a regional add ON TV and papers posting a date, time, and course of an intended drone flight. a phone in number in the event someone does not like the idea, just phone in and it won't happen type thing. They don't have to justify their position, just say NO and it's canceled. You could fly it over the grand canyon, and some (Moderator Removed) is going to be offended who you never even knew was there. Get you in court and claim psychological PTSD state and claim 100s of thousands in damages. If that is you'r perspective, which it roughly seems to be for some; best thing I should do is take a 25lb sledge hammer to it. But I expect that would spur on a complaint for a noise violation. At this rate we will all end up needing counselling, as the stress of flying the drone though fear of offending some paranoid idiot, who seems to have rights, but YOU/We don't, one thing for sure it will soon drive you all to it. So which bits the enjoyment, wondering what it's like to fly without flying? HAH look on the bright side, the worst you can is drop it, but remember don't frighten the dog, you will end up with animal protection SWAT team kicking your front door in. Reason, common sense, logic, fair play, balance, has gone. Did we ever leave the 5th grade I wonder at times.

 

[RunningWithScissors]

All I can say is this... Pick your battles... if it's worthy of your time and efforts then address it and fight for your rights to fly over his/her/their property. Just keep in mind that if this is your neighborhood sometimes it's best to turn the other cheek and keep the peace in the HOOD.

Words of wisdom. Had a similar situation in my "hood". Was out flying one day, in an area without any homes, when I was approached by a neighbor. Had seen her around, never met her, didn't know who she was. She approached me and started asking questions like, why am I flying in the neighborhood, did I have a license for "that thing", etc, etc. I answered her questions and indicated that I was compliant with the regulations and was simply doing some testing after making some adjustments. That didn't reassure her. She then starts talking about reports of a drone flying outside someone's bathroom window (was not me) and "INVASION OF PRIVACY". She expressed concern that I might be spying on people and she was "concerned" about that. She then went on to inform me that she knew who I was, where I lived, and how long I'd live there. That kind of creeped me out. At that point, my spider sense starts tingling and I realize that I may be dealing with a case of paranoia and that I need to defuse the situation quickly before she goes over the edge. So I landed the Phantom, powered it down, and calmly told her that I appreciated her concerns but those concerns were unfounded. I told her that I respect other people's right to privacy and have no interest in wasting precious battery time by "spying on people". I then flipped it around and questioned her sinceriety and integrity if she probed into my background like she did. I then picked up my Phantom and ended the conversation by saying that I wouldn't be flying in the neighborhood any more, and walked away. That forced me to get motivated to find more open, less populated areas for flying. The downside is, I now have to drive some distance to get to those areas. The upside is, I get SIGNIFICANTLY better range and a lot more satisfaction out of flying.

 

[tcope]

First, there is no way to answer your question as different countries have different privacy laws. You don't even mention what country this was in.

Usually in order for their to be an invasion of privacy, there first needs to be an expectation of privacy. I might have missed something but who's privacy would be violated? I don't see anyone to understand their perspective. Where they outside or inside? If you can't see anyone, its difficult to say that there was anyone's privacy violated.

Just going by the video itself, I'd say no... mainly as there is nothing to show in the video.

 

[solentlife]

Maybe lets see whole video and not just an excerpt ?

Nigel

 

[xspwhite]

When you walk out of your house, you have no reasonable exspectation of privacy. During your daly journeys you are probably recorded on camera a hundred times. Whether at the gas station or the supermarket or at work. In the USA, a person can stand on any sidewalk with a camera and snap pictures of your house, your yard or anything else that is in public view. Soon there will be cameras all over the streets pointed in every direction.

Last week when flying my drone, I saw an old barn that I wanted pictures of. I flew right over the property and took the pictures. I would NEVER pack up my drone and move to another area just because someone didn't like what I was doing. I will say that when I do fly over someone's property, I do it very discreetly and at a reasonable altitude. Also, I try not to sit and hover as to cause attention. The last thing I would want to do is irritate someone, but I'm sure there are people out there that possibly could be flying their drones in a harassing manner which could make the rest of us look bad.

 

[Joker2415]

I'm new to the drone world. I've been thinking a lot about the types of things you are talking about in the thread lately.

Invasion of Privacy from what we see in the little clip? NO..

But on the other end of it? I feel my neighbors homes and my home is a "private" area. It's our little piece of earth where we make our own rules, Our Happiness. If my neighbor doesn't want me flying over his house? No big deal. I won't do it.

For the rest of what your saying in the thread, I agree with a lot of it and get where your coming from. My only hangup on the whole thing is the idea that people think my yard should be community property. Not to sound like an idiot, but I worked hard to get what I have for my small piece of Earth. If I'm on my property sitting outside enjoying my piece of paradise and a drone flies over(low)? It may end up as a target.

 

[Samuraiz]

In the 60 years that I have walked this earth, I have encountered a number of truly paranoid and truly delusional people. (some are family members). Since I know that they are out there, I try to avoid any contact what so ever. Because of this, I have never flown in my own neighborhood. Most of my neighbors do not even know I have a drone.

 

[CnTheUSA]

Many people still cling to an antiquated idea of "privacy". In reality, in todays world there really is no privacy. The pimply kid at the corner store can watch video of you in their store on their street. The bored traffic cam operators watch you in your cars, The friendly news helo taking photos of you in your yard. That doesn't even take into account all the bored little hackers in their basements watching you on your laptop camera or hacking your cell phone pics and conversations. The only difference is that the little drone is something they can see and focus their attention on. They can do something about the drone, or so they think, while they can do nothing about the other full time monitoring of their lives.
The extremely rapid advance in technology has left many peoples expectations, and particularly, their perceptions of privacy as tired old things they grew up with. Nothing to do with todays society.
No one complains about a helicopter flying at 600' with a photographer leaning out a door opening shooting with a 600mm telephoto lens. Did that for three years with a construction management company. But when I started using a drone at 200' shooting the same series of photos, we would get 1 or 2 complaints a month.
Again, the idea of privacy in this day and age is just simplistic.

 

[ribjig]

Not a lawyer, but...
only a PERSON can have privacy invaded;
property can be trespassed;
there was no person in garden AFAICT;
also no high wall around garden, right?
so garden can be seen from ground, too...?
drone is NOT recording anything about
garden that can't be recorded from ground,
even if person had been in garden...?
Sky is public place, as are right-of-ways
& roads between houses...
Also, at no point did video seem to feature
JUST garden, close-ups, etc.
Many of the houses had walls surrounding yards,
if there were people in those yards & video
featured JUST ONE yard with them, that could
constitute invasion of privacy AFAIK...

My strategy when I want photos:
a. shoot first
b. apologize as needed
c. never delete

Just guessing for fun, is that Eastern Europe, maybe Ukraine...?

 

[PixelDoc]

Hoo that's wrong I care very much, don't mean to say I agree though, or have to. I am interested in perspectives, which you gave fair enough, respect, but I was hoping those who see things such as you'r way, would be reasonable, and listen to an alternative perspective on such things and factor that into their decision making process, how wrong I seem to be on that one!. Has the art of discussion and debate GONE? I am lead to believe this maybe the case. But as you say, we are free to act as we like, as long as people are not offended. Maybe I should buy a crystal ball, sounds like I am gonna need one.

Holy Cow!! Did you skip Grade 6 grammar classes for a year??
-- Just razzing you Dude. But... I am having one hell of a time trying to decipher your message.
-- still Love U

 

[ribjig]

Holy Cow!! Did you skip Grade 6 grammar classes for a year??

They may know 6 languages, English not primary.
How many languages do you know fluently????
Two? English + Cow???

 

[Offroader]

I had a quad hovering over my house one night when I had the dogs out doing their business. It was about 30' up and pointed right at me. Knowing the resolution at that distance and it being nighttime, there was not much chance he could identify me, but I also knew he could get lower. My solution? I went in the house, retrieved a rifle scope that had a laser on it and pointed it at the quad. Result? quick turn around and retreat. Never saw that quad around my house again. I have seen it in other areas of the neighborhood, but not around my house.

All my flying is in remote areas around the outskirts of Las Vegas. Anyone I encounter is curious about it and have not encountered any negativity (yet).

 

[NRJ]

All I can say is this... Pick your battles... if it's worthy of your time and efforts then address it and fight for your rights to fly over his/her/their property. Just keep in mind that if this is your neighborhood sometimes it's best to turn the other cheek and keep the peace in the HOOD. You and ONLY you can make that call and only you have to live with it either way. The rest of us are just arm-chair quarterbacks trying to give good/ethical advice. The rest is up to you.

I'd say you may be right some of the time about picking your battles. However, it looks to me like 'Outerlimits' was attacked. He needs to defend himself or go down. Secondly, when anyone is outside or outdoors, 'there is no reasonable expectation of privacy'. Yes there exceptions, but not in this case. If he chooses his battles but sits down when he is right, he loses, society loses, you lose. And forget about hypotheticals, they don't exist until they happen if ever. People always do this to throw you off because sometimes it works.

My recommendation is to be respectful of this person, but defend yourself without anger. Regardless of what he says; move on after your defense. He will just want to argue his anger away. You come out the winner.

BTW, I didn't see any hovering. and he can't tell you where to fly. What he thinks he is angry about (your drone) is not the source of his anger!

By handling issues this way we are not giving in to the loud, obnoxious, angry people in this world who lose it when they 'feel' (subjective) threatened or offended.

It's not a drone anyone should worry about. See this video; 'Can you spy with a drone?' below.

 

[BarryWilson]

The average Aircraft flying over your house is up high, unless you are on approach path of airfield and without camera .....

Not really a good comparison ... a drone at xx mtrs high vs an aircraft at xxxxx mtrs high ...

Nigel

Wait, I don't agree Nigel... have you flown in an airplane recently? I dare say 90% or more of passengers flying have smart phones which are cameras, high resolution video cameras. Then most who request window seats do so because they look out and down, especially on approach and departures. There is the occassional person who has a 35mm camera with a zoom lens taking photos too. So in comparison I'm willing to bet there are more cameras operating from a commercial airliner than a single camera drone especially on landings and take offs.. Oh and there are cameras mounted on the landing gear of some aircraft shooting video. I know for a FACT American Airlines piped the video into the cabin until they found it freaked out passengers. Now they just show in flight maps.

I think a great comparison here is the anti-gun lobby. If you own a gun you must be wanting to kill something just like having a drone you must be wanting to be a pervert taking pictures of someone. Both leave out the fact one simply enjoys shooting or flying neither of which are aimed at anyone.

 

[John in JAX]

I voted no- because of intent. As I felt you did not intend to violate privacy. Of course the neighbor's point of view might be slightly different.

 

[NRJ]

Clearly you don't actually care to hear people's opinions. I regret now replying to your question. Good luck and best wishes to you sir.

He read it and listened and now he's defending himself. Something wrong with that? He is also correct in what he says. I might ask, what is wrong with flying over a house? For example; If someone's daughter is outside sunbathing topless, I'd say her parents may have done a bad job of teaching her about modesty and the real world she is growing up in.

 

[NRJ]

You can have your home "blurred" from Google Earth is you are so inclined. It's a fairly simple process which only takes a moment to request and a few days to process. Not exactly the same as a potential "Peeping Tom" flying over your home/land.

But fact of the matter is this is a local problem not an FAA problem so you could take it up with the local authorities to determine if any rules/laws have been broken or not. It might be worth while to find out for future reference.

Really? I don't believe what you are saying! Why don't we all just spend two years in the process of going to the police, courts and what more can we think of to stop a drone from flying over a house where there is no expectation of privacy. Neither the homeowner or the drone pilot are doing anything wrong? Potential Peeping Tom? Really? Wow, that is a long reach. Did you watch his video? House just sitting in it's location, no people, no movement of house or occupants. Drone flys over, no stopping, no hovering, no peeping tom there, no crime there. So, any person who is tall and can see over your fence is a 'Potential' peeping tom? It appears from your paranoia that you are exactly the type of person who is complaining about these drone flyovers. That's what it looks like from your remarks. Nuff said!

 

[BigAl07]

Really? I don't believe what you are saying! Why don't we all just spend two years in the process of going to the police, courts and what more can we think of to stop a drone from flying over a house where there is no expectation of privacy. Neither the homeowner or the drone pilot are doing anything wrong? Potential Peeping Tom? Really? Wow, that is a long reach. Did you watch his video? House just sitting in it's location, no people, no movement of house or occupants. Drone flys over, no stopping, no hovering, no peeping tom there, no crime there. So, any person who is tall and can see over your fence is a 'Potential' peeping tom? It appears from your paranoia that you are exactly the type of person who is complaining about these drone flyovers. That's what it looks like from your remarks. Nuff said!

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it just like I am MINE!

So yes REALLY! If we don't police ourselves we can be sure our Govt will police us and we will not be happy with the outcome. Other countries have already enacted very strict (and silly) Anti-Privacy laws and some states are going that route as well here in the US. So please just do as you please and see how it comes out in the long run for the rest of us.

 

[John Decker]

Generally you have a reasonable expectation of privacy anywhere that cannot be seen by somebody who is on public property or their own property.

If the fence around the property is high enough that you can't see over it normally (I can't tell if it's that high or not) then you are invading his privacy by looking in from an artificial vantage point.
The fact that his house is overlooked by one person does not mean the whole world (or any part of it) can come and stare at his property.
And whether or not you think his property is interesting, and whether or not he is visible or even on the premises, is not the point - if you waited until your neighbour went out and then climbed a lamppost so you could look in his bedroom window, it would still be an invasion of privacy.

So if you can't see his garden from the ground, yes you invaded his privacy.

You didn't appear to fly over his property, or to hover, so he's wrong there.

As to your argument that you can be offended by someone taking offence at you etc, the answer is that living in a society we all lose some of our rights/desires and have to compromise.
Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. You just have to find a society that suits you.
Peace.

 

[NRJ]

Hoo that's wrong I care very much, don't mean to say I agree though, or have to. I am interested in perspectives, which you gave fair enough, respect, but I was hoping those who see things such as you'r way, would be reasonable, and listen to an alternative perspective on such things and factor that into their decision making process, how wrong I seem to be on that one!. Has the art of discussion and debate GONE? I am lead to believe this maybe the case. But as you say, we are free to act as we like, as long as people are not offended. Maybe I should buy a crystal ball, sounds like I am gonna need one.

I've been agreeing with you all along. I feel you are correct. But, as you reference his statement; But as you say, we are free to act as we like, as long as people are not offended. I or you or any person is not responsible for offending someone. In order to not offend, I have to get in his brain and evaluate all of his billions of thoughts to find where he will be offended. Since I cannot do that, the offense is on him. He decides if he is offended. No one can ever know what will offend another. If offense or being offended becomes a law; You can't offend anyone!, then we will all have to stop talking. It will become a silent world!