I love clients who don't need my services...

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Hey doods!

Roughly 10% of my business has been derived from those clients who "tried it first" and failed on an epic scale. This has been mostly film industry gigs. But, for the first time, this happened to a mapping client.

Potential client rejects $2000 proposal to map 50 acres in a wilderness area with 200' of elevation. Because I work with this client in other areas, I tried not to be too butt-hurt about it, and even loaned him 3 Inspire batteries so he could map it himself. Am I HAPPY that he crashed his drone? Which not only heavily damaged the drone, but damaged the X5 camera he just got back from the shop. Of course not. But it's not an uncommon theme. I took him out with me on a couple mapping projects. He must of thought, "Oh...this is easy. Just press a button a go-go-gadget-drone!!!" Another hard lesson learned. Now, instead of having an accurate topomap of his entire property, he has about 300 photos, which he can't tie to benchmarks in Pix4D because he doesn't know how to extrapolate GPS data from the cryptic benchmark nomenclature.

Look...you can buy a drone, learn how to take photos, buy Pix4D, and get "really good" at tying photos together, but that's not a "map." Unfortunately, the word "map" comes with a butt-load of legal implication. And there's WAY more too it than simply "building it in Pix4D."

Whatever...I'd bet a dollar my phone rings in the next week or so for this mapping job. I'm just glad I collected a $200 non-refundable deposit.

Some people's kids....
 
When I was producing corporate video, I often lost jobs because someone's nephew had a video camera so they decided they could do it themselves. I wonder if those guys ever thought they could build a house just because they knew someone with a hammer?
 
When I was producing corporate video, I often lost jobs because someone's nephew had a video camera so they decided they could do it themselves. I wonder if those guys ever thought they could build a house just because they knew someone with a hammer?

Honestly, there's a small measure of gratification when they call me back. The "crashed drone" client is now wanting a full blown survey of the land, including topo's and the whole 9 yards. The new proposal will be $6K-$8K. My partner's going to work out the numbers Monday. There are lessons to be learned here...not by me, of course....<;^)

D
 
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Not sure why you would bother keeping a deposit if the job didn’t proceed? Billing’s for preliminaries?

Then I guess you don't own a business. Dozens of questions answered via 2 meetings and a half dozen LONG emails + a written proposal. None of that **** is free. That said, it's a deposit. So if the client moves forward, it applies to the job. "Non-refundable deposit" is a great insurance policy...unless you like working for free, in which case it's not necessary. I don't like working for free. I don't even like my people working for free. So I utilize the industry-standard non-refundable deposit.

And here's some advice worth your admission price today. If a client balks at a deposit, there's a 90% chance they REALLY won't like the proposal. You'd be surprised how many people think anything done with a drone costs 100 bucks.
 
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Then I guess you don't own a business. Dozens of questions answered via 2 meetings and a half dozen LONG emails + a written proposal. None of that **** is free. That said, it's a deposit. So if the client moves forward, it applies to the job. "Non-refundable deposit" is a great insurance policy...unless you like working for free, in which case it's not necessary. I don't like working for free. I don't even like my people working for free. So I utilize the industry-standard non-refundable deposit.

And here's some advice worth your admission price today. If a client balks at a deposit, there's a 90% chance they REALLY won't like the proposal. You'd be surprised how many people think anything done with a drone costs 100 bucks.
You guessed wrong. You needed only say yes, prelims. Seemingly part of the agreed terms of engagement- fair enough.

Here’s some advice for you to take or leave- lending people your gear is poor business practice.
 
You guessed wrong. You needed only say yes, prelims. Seemingly part of the agreed terms of engagement- fair enough.

Here’s some advice for you to take or leave- lending people your gear is poor business practice.

I won't argue that. But there are extenuating circumstances;

1) The guy is a friend and partner in other business endeavors. This doesn't absolve him of the deposit, because my business partner put lots of time into the proposal. So the entire deposit went to him.

2) I loaned him 3 Inspire 1 batteries. Unfortunately, as much as I love the Inspire, it's becoming a dinosaur. Using my batteries was actually doing me a favor.

3) The client/friend has a very high integrity level. If anything were to happen to the batteries, I know he'd be good for it.

D
 
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Wow, that's amazing. You run a business using drones and there's absolutely nothing you could possibly learn from it. That must be very gratifying.

Bud

Honestly, there's a lot of gratification when they come crawling back. The "crashed drone" client is now wanting a full blown survey of the land, including topo's and the whole 9 yards. The new proposal will be $6K-$8K. My partner's going to work out the numbers Monday. There are lessons to be learned here...not by me, of course....<;^)

D
 
Wow, that's amazing. You run a business using drones and there's absolutely nothing you could possibly learn from it. That must be very gratifying.

Bud

Reread my comments. My assertion was that there was nothing for me to learn from my client's experience of crashing his drone. I still stand on that assertion. Not only was I not present during the event, but the client was about 120 miles away. He made mistakes I wouldn't. I already learned those lessons years ago. But you seem like a smart guy. So, pray tell, what lesson should I have learned from this client's (or ANY client's) drone-crashing experience?
 
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What lesson should you have learned? I haven't a clue, it's your story.


Reread my comments. My assertion was that there was nothing for me to learn from my client's experience of crashing his drone. I still stand on that assertion. Not only was I not present during the event, but the client was about 120 miles away. He made mistakes I wouldn't. I already learned those lessons years ago. But you seem like a smart guy. So, pray tell, what lesson should I have learned from this client's (or ANY client's) drone-crashing experience?
 
What lesson should you have learned? I haven't a clue, it's your story.

You wrote, "You run a business using drones and there's absolutely nothing you could possibly learn from it. That must be very gratifying."

The syntax of this statement is unclear. In the CONTEXT of my PREVIOUS STATEMENT, I took this to mean that you were suggesting that I should have "learned a lesson" from my client's drone incident. Perhaps I erred. Please clarify what you actually meant. It can't be taken literally, as it doesn't make sense in a literal sense. Literally taken, your syntax suggests that I had previously asserted that I could learn nothing from my drone business, which is preposterous. I would never make such an assertion, as I learn SOMETHING almost every time I fly. I look forward to your clarification.
 
It's a little difficult to explain without sounding a rude, but I assure you I was not trying to be rude.

I wrote it with a little "tongue-in-cheek" because often, when I hear someone say they can't learn something it always sounds arrogant to me. I meant no disrespect, just prodding a little.

Bud


You wrote, "You run a business using drones and there's absolutely nothing you could possibly learn from it. That must be very gratifying."

The syntax of this statement is unclear. In the CONTEXT of my PREVIOUS STATEMENT, I took this to mean that you were suggesting that I should have "learned a lesson" from my client's drone incident. Perhaps I erred. Please clarify what you actually meant. It can't be taken literally, as it doesn't make sense in a literal sense. Literally taken, your syntax suggests that I had previously asserted that I could learn nothing from my drone business, which is preposterous. I would never make such an assertion, as I learn SOMETHING almost every time I fly. I look forward to your clarification.
 
It's a little difficult to explain without sounding a rude, but I assure you I was not trying to be rude.

I wrote it with a little "tongue-in-cheek" because often, when I hear someone say they can't learn something it always sounds arrogant to me. I meant no disrespect, just prodding a little.

Bud

Copy that. Thanx for clarifying. You have a great day, sir.

Maximum respect.

D
 
I like reading your posts. You are one of few members that make sense. ;)

Thanx for the compliment. Very nice. I appreciate that.


I would be interested to know if you have a replacement a/c in your sights, and if so, what will it be please?

Funny you ask. I actually HAVE given this more thought than you would think. Hopefully, this doesn't get too long. But you DID put a token in me...LOL....

As my drone career moves forward, I have learned that there is no "one drone does all." I have also learned that, while DJI offerings are extremely well built and priced to sell, their firmware, software and support fall far short the "gold standard." So...if one can overcome these support short-comings, one can take full advantage of DJI's sophistication, reliability and robustness. Because I'm a bit of a software/firmware geek, I don't mind diving deep into the knowledge pool, and I don't mind spending hours configuring and testing different software / firmware combinations. The "secret" to DJI products (if you will), is to find the golden cusp between features and reliability. Naturally, as DJI adds more "burden / features / responsibility" to software / firmware, the less reliable they become. The good news is there exists such a cusp. Finding it can be time consuming. For this reason, I use DJI products exclusively. So, essentially, this entire paragraph is a disclaimer, designed to stop short those who wish to suggest other offerings.

To fully understand where I am going, one has to know where I came from.

For a couple years I flew gasser helicopters. I won't bore you with that history. My first hobby quad was a DraganFly with a camera. Piece of crap. I won't bore you with that history, either. My first PRO quads were all Phantom 1's; 1 with a Hero3+ with Peau Productions lens mounted to a Tarot 2-axis gimbal and (for still photos), another with a Hero4 mounted to a DYS 3-axis gimbal (for film), and a third with 2 cameras for mapping (that bird never went into service). These birds got me into the drone profession. EASY to fly with features I only imagined. To me, RTH, FPV and GPS stabilization were like little miracles from the drone gods. They were SO easy to fly that I could actually concentrate on the photography part of what I was doing. Amazing!

Naturally, my business eventually outgrew the lowly Phantom 1's. While I continued to produce decent photos and video, I sat back and watched as DJI cranked out more and more offerings. I've NEVER been a "latest / greatest" kind of guy, so I sat back and read the forums. My mind was blown how many crashes there were. How? In the years I flew Phantom 1's, I crashed only a couple times, twice due to battery running out mid flight (remember, no telemetry in those days). All crashes were minor.

While I was "out there" making a reasonable living, DJI released the Phantom 2 and the Inspire 1. While I wasn't interested in any of the Phantom offerings, the Inspire 1 caught my eye with its dual operator mode, and a level of sophistication unseen in the drone community. And while I was intrigued, it wasn't until version 2 that I pulled the trigger. And I'm glad I did. With its dual operator capabilities, me and my partner became a formidable player in the film industry. My phone rang often.

In the interim, another market had opened up for me; the mapping market. Based on a fellow professional's advice, I explored the P4P with its 20MP camera. I started diving into the mapping side of UAS, which was comprised of automated flight only. So that opened up a whole other venue of research. I was now exploring third-party applications for my mapping needs. The money was good. Very good. I stopped taking real estate jobs because the money:work ratio just wasn't there. But then DJI released the Mavic and subsequent Mavic Pro. This drone was so small, diminutive, non-threatening, and easy to deploy that it rekindled my interest in real estate videography / photography. I could now be "in and out" in about an hour. And because the thing was so small, nobody bugged me. I could once again justify the $100 paycheck. For these clients, I deal strictly in cash, and hand over the file on-site. For a small fee, I deliver the files.

Meanwhile, the film industry has been moving towards RAW aerial cinematography. And, as of this writing, they pretty much demand it. So, to answer your question, I first must ask myself if I'm interested enough in the film industry market to purchase a replacement for the Inspire 1. Naturally, this replacement will have to be able to shoot in RAW.

Naturally, one thinks of the Inspire 2 for this purpose. But I don't like the Inspire 2 for a couple reasons:

1) They're still too expensive. I would have to purchase 2 of them, as I would never show up on set without a replacement drone.
2) They're too duty specific. They're designed for film (and apparently they do that well), but there's little other use for them.
3) I still see far too many crash reports. I can attribute a lot of these crashes to "user error," but a good portion still seem related to HARDWARE issues, which can be extremely difficult to overcome.

The bird I *actually* like is the M600 Pro. Why? Because I can mount a X5R to the beast for film, and a LIDAR unit to it for mapping. It will fly automated flights for mapping, and will accommodate dual operators for film. I have set up a couple M600 Pro's for customers, and I must say that I am impressed with their engineering. I only have about 2 hours of flight time on them, spanned across 2 birds, but in that time I must say that I fell in like with the things. The battery redundancy thing is a REAL carrot for me. For many reasons, I have always felt that the single battery was a crappy design for heavy lifters.

The reason I don't pull the trigger now is because I know the longer I wait, the lower the price will go on these birds. There's always a community of people with more money than sense who just see these heavy lifters as a big toy. I call this "garage candy," (a term left over from the Harley-Davidson craze of the 90's) - purchased with all the extra bells-n-whistles, spare parts, spare chargers, spare batteries, flown once or twice, and then left in a box in the garage.

As of this writing, the mapping market is my favorite market. If we get to the point where we have to incorporate my partner's $80,000 LIDAR unit into our mapping jobs, I'll pull the trigger on an M600 Pro, and outfit it accordingly. And while everyone is raving about the latest / greatest DJI camera offerings, I think the X5R is still a fantastic camera. I believe the industry will be happy with 4K for a while. I always felt the X5R was too great a payload and power burden for the Inspire 1 to carry effectively. Such a payload will be small carrots for the M600 Pro. 25 minutes of flight time should be easily achievable.

I hope this answers your question...<;^)

D
 
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Thanx for the compliment. Very nice. I appreciate that.




Funny you ask. I actually HAVE given this more thought than you would think. Hopefully, this doesn't get too long. But you DID put a token in me...LOL....

As my drone career moves forward, I have learned that there is no "one drone does all." I have also learned that, while DJI offerings are extremely well built and priced to sell, their firmware, software and support fall far short the "gold standard." So...if one can overcome these support short-comings, one can take full advantage of DJI's sophistication, reliability and robustness. Because I'm a bit of a software/firmware geek, I don't mind diving deep into the knowledge pool, and I don't mind spending hours configuring and testing different software / firmware combinations. The "secret" to DJI products (if you will), is to find the golden cusp between features and reliability. Naturally, as DJI adds more "burden / features / responsibility" to software / firmware, the less reliable they become. The good news is there exists such a cusp. Finding it can be time consuming. For this reason, I use DJI products exclusively. So, essentially, this entire paragraph is a disclaimer, designed to stop short those who wish to suggest other offerings.

To fully understand where I am going, one has to know where I came from.

For a couple years I flew gasser helicopters. I won't bore you with that history. My first hobby quad was a DraganFly with a camera. Piece of crap. I won't bore you with that history, either. My first PRO quads were all Phantom 1's; 1 with a Hero3+ with Peau Productions lens mounted to a Tarot 2-axis gimbal and (for still photos), another with a Hero4 mounted to a DYS 3-axis gimbal (for film), and a third with 2 cameras for mapping (that bird never went into service). These birds got me into the drone profession. EASY to fly with features I only imagined. To me, RTH, FPV and GPS stabilization were like little miracles from the drone gods. They were SO easy to fly that I could actually concentrate on the photography part of what I was doing. Amazing!

Naturally, my business eventually outgrew the lowly Phantom 1's. While I continued to produce decent photos and video, I sat back and watched as DJI cranked out more and more offerings. I've NEVER been a "latest / greatest" kind of guy, so I sat back and read the forums. My mind was blown how many crashes there were. How? In the years I flew Phantom 1's, I crashed only a couple times, twice due to battery running out mid flight (remember, no telemetry in those days). All crashes were minor.

While I was "out there" making a reasonable living, DJI released the Phantom 2 and the Inspire 1. While I wasn't interested in any of the Phantom offerings, the Inspire 1 caught my eye with its dual operator mode, and a level of sophistication unseen in the drone community. And while I was intrigued, it wasn't until version 2 that I pulled the trigger. And I'm glad I did. With its dual operator capabilities, me and my partner became a formidable player in the film industry. My phone rang often.

In the interim, another market had opened up for me; the mapping market. Based on a fellow professional's advice, I explored the P4P with its 20MP camera. I started diving into the mapping side of UAS, which was comprised of automated flight only. So that opened up a whole other venue of research. I was now exploring third-party applications for my mapping needs. The money was good. Very good. I stopped taking real estate jobs because the money:work ratio just wasn't there. But then DJI released the Mavic and subsequent Mavic Pro. This drone was so small, diminutive, non-threatening, and easy to deploy that it rekindled my interest in real estate videography / photography. I could now be "in and out" in about an hour. And because the thing was so small, nobody bugged me. I could once again justify the $100 paycheck. For these clients, I deal strictly in cash, and hand over the file on-site. For a small fee, I deliver the files.

Meanwhile, the film industry has been moving towards RAW aerial cinematography. And, as of this writing, they pretty much demand it. So, to answer your question, I first must ask myself if I'm interested enough in the film industry market to purchase a replacement for the Inspire 1. Naturally, this replacement will have to be able to shoot in RAW.

Naturally, one thinks of the Inspire 2 for this purpose. But I don't like the Inspire 2 for a couple reasons:

1) They're still too expensive. I would have to purchase 2 of them, as I would never show up on set without a replacement drone.
2) They're too duty specific. They're designed for film (and apparently they do that well), but there's little other use for them.
3) I still see far too many crash reports. I can attribute a lot of these crashes to "user error," but a good portion still seem related to HARDWARE issues, which can be extremely difficult to overcome.

The bird I *actually* like is the M600 Pro. Why? Because I can mount a X5R to the beast for film, and a LIDAR unit to it for mapping. It will fly automated flights for mapping, and will accommodate dual operators for film. I have set up a couple M600 Pro's for customers, and I must say that I am impressed with their engineering. I only have about 2 hours of flight time on them, spanned across 2 birds, but in that time I must say that I fell in like with the things. The battery redundancy thing is a REAL carrot for me. For many reasons, I have always felt that the single battery was a crappy design for heavy lifters.

The reason I don't pull the trigger now is because I know the longer I wait, the lower the price will go on these birds. There's always a community of people with more money than sense who just see these heavy lifters as a big toy. I call this "garage candy," (a term left over from the Harley-Davidson craze of the 90's) - purchased with all the extra bells-n-whistles, spare parts, spare chargers, spare batteries, flown once or twice, and then left in a box in the garage.

As of this writing, the mapping market is my favorite market. If we get to the point where we have to incorporate my partner's $80,000 LIDAR unit into our mapping jobs, I'll pull the trigger on an M600 Pro, and outfit it accordingly. And while everyone is raving about the latest / greatest DJI camera offerings, I think the X5R is still a fantastic camera. I believe the industry will be happy with 4K for a while. I always felt the X5R was too great a payload and power burden for the Inspire 1 to carry effectively. Such a payload will be small carrots for the M600 Pro. 25 minutes of flight time should be easily achievable.

I hope this answers your question...<;^)

D
I enjoy reading your post. There is a lot of insight in what you wrote.
 
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Hi Harley,

That was one heck of a tokens worth :) Thank you. You answered my question above and beyond.

You could write a book and earn a bit on the Kindle. I am sure your inventiveness and experiences would sell.

Why do you insist on RAW shooting - presumably for post editing but at the end of the day does it really make a difference?

I wish you the best in the mapping market and look forward to your future posts.
 
Hi Harley,

That was one heck of a tokens worth :) Thank you. You answered my question above and beyond.

You could write a book and earn a bit on the Kindle. I am sure your inventiveness and experiences would sell.

Why do you insist on RAW shooting - presumably for post editing but at the end of the day does it really make a difference?

I wish you the best in the mapping market and look forward to your future posts.
In short, photos shot in RAW allow more flexibility in processing as each file contains 100% of the original data captured by the camera. A JPG image is already processed by the camera and as such much of the initial image information and detail is discarded and cannot be recovered.
 
In short, photos shot in RAW allow more flexibility in processing as each file contains 100% of the original data captured by the camera. A JPG image is already processed by the camera and as such much of the initial image information and detail is discarded and cannot be recovered.


Thanks. Well, I never knew that. I must experiment to see if there is a noticeable difference, although it all depends what someone is viewing it on. I have a 55 inch 4K television so RAW would be the best.

Does this also apply to videos too? Would RAW be better than the cinematic setting on my P3A?
 

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