Welcome to PhantomPilots.com

Sign up for a weekly email of the latest drone news & information

Any reason why I couldn't fly over this area?

Discussion in 'Rules and Regulations' started by Drestin Black, Sep 16, 2016.

  1. Drestin Black

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    278
    Location:
    Sterling Heights, MI
    The Ford Proving Grounds j. Romeo, MI

    If I take off from a public place outside their grounds and fly over - why would this (is it) be illegal?

    According to B4UFLY there are two helipads just barely within 5 miles I'd have to notify. But, otherwise, just wondering... Why not?

    Flying as a hobbyist, daytime, in VLOS and between 40-400 feet at all times.


    Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots
     
  2. Gaterhawk

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2016
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    West Texas
    Don't know MI. drone laws, but you may be asking for unwanted attention. It may be perfectly legal for you to to fly over the facility, but they could still raise a ruckus and call the authorities. I've ran in to some pretty un-educated authorities as far as drones are concerned. I would also check the "invasion of privacy" laws as well. I know here in TX I can fly over my neighbors pool with no problem. But, I can't take pictures or videos, or show any intent of surveillance, with out their permission of course.
     
  3. Drestin Black

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    278
    Location:
    Sterling Heights, MI
    That's why I'm asking - the answer is always, "You should be but ..." At some
    Point there has to be a law that makes it black & white


    Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
     
  4. Gaterhawk

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2016
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    West Texas
    No doubt, I agree. It's gotten where I don't fly in my neighborhood any more because every time I would fly, the cops show up. And then I spend 20 minutes explaining to cop that I'm not breaking any laws. But due to law enforcement not being update of all the regulations, it always ends with law enforcement telling me to get it out of the sky. I'm just tired of arguing with them.
     
  5. N42742

    Approved Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    131
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Are you flying recreationally, under Part 107, or under a 333 exemption?
     
  6. tcope

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    3,523
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    In the least you are now moving into that tricky area. Can I walk into someone's property and look their fence into their backyard? No, partly because this violates their expectation of privacy. Can I fly a drone over their backyard and hover it above them? Legally, I'd say yes. How are these things any different in the result?

    We read about people shooting down drones, we read about judges ruling against drone flier... even though the drone flyer was not doing anything illegally. The reason why they are getting ruled against is because people doing things with drones that they probably should not, but it's currently legal.

    So anther question for you... is it worth it to you to get some great photos of the proving grounds if 1) it may result in yet another complaint to the policy and/or FAA and 2) be fuel to the path of limiting drone flight.

    I'm not going to sit here and say I would not do it. However, if they were not testing some secret vehicle, how interesting would the footage really be?

    It's your call.

    Edit: I read your post again and it seems more of just a question (sorry). You seem to say it's illegal? If so, why would it be illegal?
     
  7. tcope

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    3,523
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Would not matter at all.
     
  8. Drestin Black

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    278
    Location:
    Sterling Heights, MI
    I'm not suggesting it would be illegal, I'm asking why wouldn't it be legal?
    As far as I can tell, from the reading I've done, as long as you take off and land outside their private property and you are not doing unsafe behavior nor acting in a obviously violating personal privacy manner (hovering over the woman's portapotty or worse, I'll let you imagine), they shouldn't be able to prevent it.
    Ok, that being said, we don't know the schedule of things going on but interest in seeing the latest model cars to through their paces, I'd think, would be very interesting to many folks and doing it without having to hire an airplane or helicopter, using a cheap drone, would be amazing to many car magazines. So, why haven't I see this done At All? Makes me think, there must be a reason?
    I'm thinking of just heading out there and taking a look see. What's the worse thing that can happen, I'm told to go away? Even if they have a sign that says, "No trespassing, this means you and your pesky drone, no cameras or photos beyond this point" - hows that legally stop me? If I was in a helicopter and flew over, and there are no FAA restrictions, shouldn't the same apply here?
     
  9. Drestin Black

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    278
    Location:
    Sterling Heights, MI
    Want a laugh - if you go to google maps and then use street view to look along 34 mile road - you'll notice that the google streetview vehicle is being followed by one of the ford security trucks LOL
     
  10. MichiganPhantom4

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    16
    My friend lives on Hipp Rd which borders the proving grounds fence and every time I fly over in the area across the fence you can see security driving around the roads looking for the operator. For some odd reason, I can't get too far in before getting lines in my screen. I can't get a straight los because of the heavy vegetation and tree canopies either. I'm going to another friends house on Hipp just north of 36 mile next because he has a corn field next to him and I'll get better los. I try to keep it under 200 feet just in case of any planes in area. I'm well aware of the Romeo airport, but I'm right outside the 5 mile bubble. 4 miles north and 2 miles west. In my empty skull I calculated 5-6 miles away from AP. Don't know if I wouldnt try it from the roads though, the security guys are really hyped up on Redbulls around the fence. Makes me feel like it's NORAD or Roswell in there the way they act.


    Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
     
  11. brothers

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    17
    If the two and four mile figures are accurate, you're between four and five miles away. The squares of the two legs would have.to add up to twenty-five or more to be greater than five miles. In this case, they add up to twenty.
     
  12. Drestin Black

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    278
    Location:
    Sterling Heights, MI
    [​IMG]

    Unless you are in the extreme NW corner of the proving grounds you are within 5 miles of the "Eagle" Helipad. This is a warning only area. Just gotta give them a call to tell them you will be flying there. You are advising them, not asking permission.

    I don't see how Ford can enforce No Trespassing outside their property lines. I can fly a plane or helicopter over this land without issue. I think they have massive pull with local police and they can intimate very well, and, of course, look for ANY reason, no matter how trivial, to ticket or charge you with (broken tail light? Tinted windows? Cell phone or tablet use while driving?)

    I get that they want to preserve their privacy and I can respect that. I wonder how they intimidate big magazine publishers from flying over; and I think the answer is they threaten to pull advertising and cooperation on stories. But legally, I think it's technical ok to over fly it.

    Having said that, the area is lined with tall trees and the test roadway is slightly below VLOS, I think at anything less than 200 feet you'll have very poor reception almost immediately.


    Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots