Your drone is an "aircraft"

[MadMitch88]

Realistically, Phantoms fall into the middle ground. They're more than just a "little plastic flying toy" but less than a 3/4 tonne Cessna 152. Little plastic toys don't cause damage when they crash. Little plastic toys don't overfly prime Turkish airspace. Little plastic toys won't attract this kind of liability from third parties. So let's not play down what they are. They are aircraft, not groundcraft or watercraft, and that gives them greater potential to crash and cause harm.

You're doing a huge disservice to our hobby when you spread hypothetical fear about Phantoms like they're a rapidly escalating ominous threat to public safety. You act as if the FAA hasn't been monitoring the potential danger of model aircraft for DECADES. They'd be a lot more adamant about shutting us all down if anyone had already been seriously hurt or killed in the U.S. by a consumer drone, and the facts say that nobody has. The worst anyone has seen is a few stitches from a prop cut. That's a pretty **** good track record for a device you seem to think it going to rain down terror on the general populace.

The only difference in recent years compared to the past is that R/C flying was previously a small niche hobby practiced by persons willing to put in the hours to become proficient at operating the craft and understanding all safety concerns. Now the hobby is becoming very popular with the multi-rotors being sold in the tens of thousands every month and consumers aren't putting in the same dedication to fly their machines responsibly in all situations.

You need to shift your focus away from all the hypothetical damage these little 2-pound plastic toys can inflict on people and instead focus on how the FAA and the industry can insure consumers are meeting some minimum level of competence to fly any type of UAV they're legally able to buy. I predict some kind of state licensing will eventually be required, since UAVs will only get bigger, faster, more powerful and sharing the national airspace with manned aircraft in some capacity.

I can start spewing a lot of hypothetical fear about how much brain damage a baseball bat could inflict on people if not used properly, but the empirical data over the last 100 years shows that they are very safe with only very few isolated cases of being misused and causing serious injury. You need to start looking at UAVs the same way.

 

[Narrator]

Realistically, Phantoms fall into the middle ground. They're more than just a "little plastic flying toy" but less than a 3/4 tonne Cessna 152. Little plastic toys don't cause damage when they crash. Little plastic toys don't overfly prime Turkish airspace. Little plastic toys won't attract this kind of liability from third parties. So let's not play down what they are. They are aircraft, not groundcraft or watercraft, and that gives them greater potential to crash and cause harm.

You're doing a huge disservice to our hobby when you spread hypothetical fear about Phantoms...

I disagree. We need to start being realistic and taking caution or real incidents will become responsible for real fear.

The only difference in recent years compared to the past is that R/C flying was previously a small niche hobby...

A lot of minimizing statements begin with words like "the only difference is..." There is a BIG difference. In the past, hobby flying was restricted to fields where clubs and the like gathered. It was corralled into safe areas under controlled conditions, often with observers and marshals. This new sport is being played out everywhere, with whatever conditions an individual chooses, and rarely with designated observers. Before drones, you almost never heard of RC incidents outside the clubs.

Yes, most of us are willing to be safe and proficient, but the growing reports of incidents is already causing a reaction. I think legislators should get on with it, rather than the head-in-the-sand approach that's allowing idiots to cause bad press.

I predict some kind of state licensing will eventually be required, since UAVs will only get bigger, faster, more powerful and sharing the national airspace with manned aircraft in some capacity.

I agree, though your FAA has national authority, so maybe it will become a federal thing.

I can start spewing a lot of hypothetical fear about how much brain damage a baseball bat could inflict on people if not used properly, but the empirical data over the last 100 years shows that they are very safe with only very few isolated cases of being misused and causing serious injury. You need to start looking at UAVs the same way.

No, we need to be realistic about UAV's rather than have our own heads in the sand. I'm not afraid UAV's. I'm afraid of what idiots will do to our hobby, especially now that they're flying over crowded beaches and major airports, crashing into buildings and falling out of the sky onto sports competitors. You and I wouldn't do that, but the idiots are doing it every day, and they're the ones we should be concerned about.

 

[MadMitch88]

In the past, hobby flying was restricted to fields where clubs and the like gathered. It was corralled into safe areas under controlled conditions, often with observers and marshals. This new sport is being played out everywhere, with whatever conditions an individual chooses, and rarely with designated observers. Before drones, you almost never heard of RC incidents outside the clubs.

You're factually wrong AGAIN. In decades past, most people flew their R/C aircraft in the backyard and at public parks, just like they do now with Phantoms. In the 80's I remember my uncle flying his fixed-wing foamie at my Gramp's farm and he had no idea where the nearest AMA field or club was, or where to find a marshal to make sure he was flying safe. Most people who owned an R/C airplane were like him.

Don't make up fake information and pass them off as fact.

I agree, though your FAA has national authority, so maybe it will become a federal thing.

There won't be a federal license to fly a 2-lb. plastic toy. Use some common sense. If cars and guns require a state license to use them in the U.S., then that means UAV operators will need to obtain a state license. Each state will have it's own drone laws, and therefore each state's citizens will need to demonstrate proficiency under those laws. New laws follow precedent.

No, we need to be realistic about UAV's rather than have our own heads in the sand. I'm not afraid UAV's. I'm afraid of what idiots will do to our hobby, especially now that they're flying over crowded beaches and major airports, crashing into buildings and falling out of the sky onto sports competitors. You and I wouldn't do that, but the idiots are doing it every day, and they're the ones we should be concerned about.

Again, you're not being realistic at all. All the empirical evidence about consumer drones so far shows they are not capable of causing massive human injury and death like you presume. There has NEVER been even one single documented case of a Phantom or similar size UAV causing serious injury or death. Getting a few stitches is not the basis for spreading fear and panic like you are doing.

There are idiots out in the world doing stupid things every day, and most of them are using objects that are far more deadly than a 2-lb. plastic toy. I've seen enough people do horrible things with cars in the last 35 years that it makes me wonder why we even allow automobiles to exist. But they do exist, and our society accepts a certain amt. of risk with them. The same philosophy will be applied to drones. Yes, someday a small drone may collide with a manned aircraft and cause a crash, but there will come a day when that risk is acceptable. There are far too many potential uses for drones to have them banned simply because someone like you is dreaming up hypothetical ways they will cause inordinate levels of injury and death.

 

[PhantomFanatic]

What tail?

 

[Narrator]

In the past, hobby flying was restricted to fields where clubs and the like gathered. It was corralled into safe areas under controlled conditions, often with observers and marshals. This new sport is being played out everywhere, with whatever conditions an individual chooses, and rarely with designated observers. Before drones, you almost never heard of RC incidents outside the clubs.

You're factually wrong AGAIN. In decades past, most people flew their R/C aircraft in the backyard and at public parks, just like they do now with Phantoms. In the 80's I remember my uncle flying his fixed-wing foamie at my Gramp's farm and he had no idea where the nearest AMA field or club was, or where to find a marshal to make sure he was flying safe. Most people who owned an R/C airplane were like him.

Don't make up fake information and pass them off as fact.

Not fake, just a wrong assumption on my part. I assumed hobbyists in the US would be like they have been here in Australia.

I agree, though your FAA has national authority, so maybe it will become a federal thing.

There won't be a federal license to fly a 2-lb. plastic toy. Use some common sense. If cars and guns require a state license to use them in the U.S., then that means UAV operators will need to obtain a state license. Each state will have it's own drone laws, and therefore each state's citizens will need to demonstrate proficiency under those laws. New laws follow precedent.

I don't know where the demarcation rules are in the US, state vs fed, but in Australia our aviation regulator overrides the states on aviation issues. They have to because aviation rules are international and there is a push to make more of the rules conform to international conventions. Whether they eventually decide to include drones in that is another thing. But regardless of size, they will try to bring some uniformity into it so that your 30kg drone rules will also cover your 2kg drones.

No, we need to be realistic about UAV's rather than have our own heads in the sand. I'm not afraid UAV's. I'm afraid of what idiots will do to our hobby, especially now that they're flying over crowded beaches and major airports, crashing into buildings and falling out of the sky onto sports competitors. You and I wouldn't do that, but the idiots are doing it every day, and they're the ones we should be concerned about.

Again, you're not being realistic at all. All the empirical evidence about consumer drones so far shows they are not capable of causing massive human injury and death like you presume.

Did I say death? Why exaggerate to try make your case? Empirical evidence doesn't matter a **** as far as public opinion goes. Do you think people feel safer in a car than in an aircraft? The empirical evidence says planes are many times safer than cars, but that does nothing to help the people who fear them. I care about public opinion, because that could be a problem for our hobby. An unregulated hobby like this is a public relations problem. Once there is some 'sensible' regulation, enforced on the idiots, many of the idiots will cease and the irrational fears will be reduced.

There has NEVER been even one single documented case of a Phantom or similar size UAV causing serious injury or death. Getting a few stitches is not the basis for spreading fear and panic like you are doing.

There are idiots out in the world doing stupid things every day, and most of them are using objects that are far more deadly than a 2-lb. plastic toy. I've seen enough people do horrible things with cars in the last 35 years that it makes me wonder why we even allow automobiles to exist. But they do exist, and our society accepts a certain amt. of risk with them. The same philosophy will be applied to drones.

Yes and that's why you can't drive without a license. And a driver's license isn't just a rubber stamp. Neither is a gun license.

Yes, someday a small drone may collide with a manned aircraft and cause a crash, but there will come a day when that risk is acceptable. There are far too many potential uses for drones to have them banned simply because someone like you is dreaming up hypothetical ways they will cause inordinate levels of injury and death.

FFS Am I asking for them to be banned???? I fly one and want to become a commercial operator for gods sake. Umm, banning them kind'a goes against that plan, huh.