When to switch from Phantom to Naza?

[dunginhawk]

Obviously im a complete n00b here. ONly had my vision a day now.. Run 4 packs through it and im already an expert.. kidding of course.

I LOVE this thing.. ive been very cautious however.
I put foil tape in my shell to help with satellites, and now routinely have 9 while in the air, and recording, which gives me enough confidence to fly it a few hundred feet away.
One flight i went back over my neighbors house to some woodlands (where im trying to spot a mountain lion, one of the reasons i bought it) but got scared and didnt spend too much time there.

In theory i know what naza gives me (atti, RTH, ioc etc), but from your guys experience what can i expect to gain by switching here vs leaving it in phantom mode...

I apologize for asking newbie questions, but again, this is new to me... i catch on quickly
thanks

 

[RIDETOEAT]

Read up on the coarse lock and home lock and ATTI, features. I have used home lock to just quickly mine bring it back into visual range or out of a lost in the sun situation, I like the RTH and ATTI being available on a switch and CL and HL on another. If you can avoid making mistakes with your switch positions, I say do it now. I changed mine when I was in your position a week ago and still wonder why they ship in phantom mode !!! Do it...

 

[QYV]

I have my flight computer in Naza but I still spend most of my flight time with the toggle in GPS mode, which acts just like Phantom Mode. The only time I switch to ATTI is when I want the additional tilt angle (which yields more speed). Also bear in mind ATTI mode the Phantom doesn't "hold it's position" when you release the sticks... it will drift with the wind and also when you move laterally you either have to add your own counter-thrust to make it slow down/stop, or you can just flip back into GPS mode and it'll hover. I flip back and forth between ATTI and GPS a lot during flights.

Notice I didn't say anything about the IOC modes. I never use CL / HL which are the other toggle when you're in ATTI mode. Some guys going for super professional camera shots need CL and HL modes, but I haven't felt like I ever needed it.

 

[ProfessorStein]

To answer your question in the subject line, I think I switched to NAZA the second day I had my Vision.

Phantom/Vision mode is really only DJI's way to CYA. Trying to shield themselves from liability should a new pilot happen to mistakenly switch into manual mode, mostly, but ATTI and RTH somewhat as well. All of which, if you don't know what's going on, can present situations that may induce panic. It's not that NAZA is dangerous, or "advanced" as DJI says it. It's just that it takes a little more thinking when you're at the controls. So DJI created Phantom/Vision mode so pilots could get used to the RC and where the switches are without fear that they'd suddenly be in a mode that they couldn't control.

But, as you probably know, NAZA with both switches in the up position, is exactly like Phantom/Vision mode. So I'd say switch to NAZA when you feel comfortable that you are in the habit of looking at your switches at take-off, and that you can operate the RC without your shirt cuff accidentally switching them to another position. And then, when you switch to NAZA, go in and set the S1 down position from "Manual" to "Failsafe" and you'll be even safer... never having to worry about inadvertently switching into Manual flight mode.

Oh... and I use home lock fairly regularly. It's great protection if you can't determine the orientation of your Phantom - if it's a long way off, or in the sun - switch it to home lock and you know, no matter what, backward on the stick will bring it back to you. Ironically, I never use it while shooting pictures or video.

 

[dunginhawk]

I have definitely read up on them and the take away for me was the only difference is i GAIN a lot more by naza, where as gps is limited... I can still be in gps mode 100% of the time on naza, but not the other way around.
I like the HL option, especially when you are out of range.

Which brings me to another question.. how often do you guys get out of sight, or out of range of the TX where it comes home on its own? that seems like it would be a VERY scary proposition, but given the flaky nature of antennas you cant always judge how far you can go before you lose signal.

If im 200 feet in the air, and 500 feet away should i be ok? how far do you folks feel comfortably going? stock of course.

 

[ProfessorStein]

how often do you guys get out of sight, or out of range of the TX where it comes home on its own? that seems like it would be a VERY scary proposition

Actually, it was one of the most comforting features of the entire product when I was first starting out. And one of the reasons I bought the Phantom rather than a lower-priced quad that didn't have RTH. I tested it twice during my first two flights, and a few times since. It's not really scary at all. And you can always recover control if you need to.

I do tend to always keep LOS of my bird, though. I suppose if you've completely lost sight of it, and you're simply trusting that RTH will work as it should, it can be a very stressful couple of minutes as it flys home.

 

[dunginhawk]

yeah, im not worried about testing RTH when im in LOS, but i was thinking when i get out of LOS perhaps then i may be soiling myself hoping RTH works... but i feel more at ease now with the foil mod giving me more satellites, etc.
Im in the camp that fly aways are more pilot error than anything, but i do think there are some legit fly aways. I just have to do my steps, make sure i have home lock, etc and trust the tech

 

[ProfessorStein]

yeah, im not worried about testing RTH when im in LOS, but i was thinking when i get out of LOS perhaps then i may be soiling myself hoping RTH works...

Yep... that's when Home Lock comes in real handy. Rather than trusting RTH, push the throttle stick all the way up to gain as much altitude as you want/need (watch the meter in the Vision app, or you may be able to see it at some point), switch it over to Home Lock mode, and pull the right stick all the way back toward you. Then keep an eye on your FPV. Much more control that way.

 

[dunginhawk]

with that in mind, do you find you lose complete control if you go behind a grove of trees? say im on one side, and i go up over trees, down the other side... does that severely impact range? or kill it all together?
i say that because i need to go behind my house (the one to start the video) and behind the across the street neighbors... and dont want to lose it.

EDIT : dont watch the video unless you care about helping with my tree question.. its a very not exciting bit of film haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISHM3wN ... e=youtu.be

 

[ProfessorStein]

Certainly depends on the trees, and how dense they are. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Like I said, I almost always try to retain line of sight. But I can say I have gone up and over to the other side of my house, so the house was very much between me and my Phantom, and I still had complete control and FPV. Though... that's also the one time that I ran into a tree and ended up bending one of the arms on my bird. Completely my fault, and the very reason I now always keep 'er in sight.

 

[BlackTracer]

I notice from your video that u r flying in FPV mode. Go to settings in vision app and unchecking FPV and behold the stable magic!

 

[dunginhawk]

oooh good tip

thanks blacktracer

 

[Happyflyer]

You sure have a nice open area to fly. I'm in the woods and my only direction is up. Have to drive a little to get out in the open. NICE houses also.

 

[ProfessorStein]

I'm in the woods and my only direction is up.

Whoa. I just had flashbacks to Airwolf. :shock:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R34_QhDkDE[/youtube]


Supposedly only he and Dominic had the flying skills to get 'er out of the cave, so you're in good company, Happy

 

[Meta4]

Beware of trees. They are the natural enemy of the Phantom and additional care is always required if they are around.
The thickness of their canopy affects radio control - you can control through thin tree cover but not if it is a little more dense.
One big worry is RTH if there are trees between you and your bird. If you are flying from a position where RTH may involve coming back past trees, always set your home point above you at a height sufficient that any RTH will be above trees rather than through them.

I see some mention of problems with losing the Phantom in the sun or distance, or not being able to tell orientation - the radar display in the lower left is perfect. It gives you all the information you want so that you can lose the bird in the sun and still know what it's doing and fly with confidence. It makes it easy to turn the Phantom and fly it back even when you have no idea where in the sky it is.

 

[dunginhawk]

Meta, couldnt i use Home lock at that point and really not care where the phantom is? as long as I get some altitude on it?

I will definately not be flying up over, then down in to tree cover.. I will try to stay above them...

If i have line of sight would it be safe do you feel to go 1000 feet away from me, and 200 feet up? Ive seen people get around 1800 under clear, good LOS conditions.
Im just trying to figure out how far I can go over my area... Without accidentally triggering RTH.

thanks for the compliments about my flying area I think its perfect. I can fly out over miles of corn/bean fields, or streams/trees up over my neighbors

EDIT - that was going to be another question. if i set my Home point 100 feet above my position, will it only return there, not continue to the ground? i would assume so yeah.. so thats nice to know. ill set my home point high up in the area, so no matter where the bird is it will have to fly up to get home.
thanks

 

[Meta4]

If you set home at height .. under RTH the bird will climb to home + 20 metres and then proceed to the home point.
It will then descend slowly until it feels the earth under its feet. It will land and shut down.

Definitely worth trying this out in controlled and open conditions to get a feel for how it works.
As long as you have line of sight, you can also resume control at any time by flicking the S1 switch down and back to land yourself or continue flying.

 

[dunginhawk]

I did actually test it about an hour ago, and it worked great.. HOWEVER..
I tried twice to re-establish a NEW home point, and got the rapid blinking green both times... BOTH times it didnt take...
both times when i engaged failsafe or Homelock (and brought it back in line) it went to its original home point, not the newly established ones.
any thoughts on that? is that uncommon?

 

[ProfessorStein]

Yes... that would be uncommon. I reset my home point all the time, and it always "sticks" for me. You might try to reinstall the firmware.

 

[dunginhawk]

Ill have to figure out how to do that... firmware upgrade was done automatically before so im guessing this is more of a manual thing.
thanks