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What is your best NO Jello Solution?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jdawson, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. jdawson

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    I have read everything from Neutral Density Filters, High Frame Rates, Better Mounts, many more.
    Some people say NOTHING works... Some say everything works!

    I don't have a Phantom yet but I have seen Jello shooting video on many highly shaking items in the past. I have never seen any Jello when I go 120+ FPS. What is you best solution and also what have you tried that didn't work?

    Joe
     
  2. auck

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    There is not single "silver bullet" that will fix the problem, and there is no easy answer. Most people find that it will come down to a combination of things. Because the GoPro uses a "rolling shutter" there are any number of reasons why you will get the "jello" effect. for most people, as far as i have read, the #1 culprit is the vibration of the propellers through the chassis of the craft. fast movements can also create jello and blurred effects. the following link has good explanations to cause and effects for rolling shutter problems.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_shutter

    I would say the easiest thing to do is to start with prop balancing, then moving onto isolating the camera. I do it in this order because once you balance your props, most of the vibrations should be gone. the rest of the vibrations that you can't resolve with prop balancing can be resolved with isolating your camera. by balancing your prop first and reducing most of your vibrations, you end up using less stuff to eliminate the rest of the vibrations. less stuff to eliminate vibrations equals a lighter craft.

    my 2 pence
     
  3. MX45OR

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    I have not balanced the props yet (no balancer yet). I have found that 1080 @ 60fps works, 960 @ 100fps works, and 720 @ 120fps works. I use the original waterproof housing that came with the Gopro3. It fits the camera perfect with no foam to take up the room of a sloppy fit. I also dont use any dampener. Enjoy this short video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvTu1wvt ... cw&index=1
     
  4. pwright

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    Balancing the props is the first thing you should try for two reasons.

    1. You are less limited on what frame rates are usable once you do this.

    2. Your Phantom will no longer be destroying itself with vibrations from the horribly unbalanced props that come with it.
     
  5. jdawson

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    MX45OR your video looks much better then many i have seen with fancy balanced props and special mounts.
     
  6. MX45OR

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    Thank you. Those settings were recorded at 960 @ 100fps, which I like , but its not made for wide screen like 1080 is.

    Yes I would like to balance the props , but I'd like to get some Graupners and do them right.
     
  7. Gizmo3000

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    As said, if you're serious about getting rid of Jello (and keeping your copter from vibrating itself apart), balancing the props is essential.
    If you plan to buy a Phantom, . consider a prop balancer an essential accessory. (not something to look into getting later on)
    otherwise you'll shoot your first video and likely wind up disappointed with the results and you'l then end up waiting impatiently for a few days for the prop balancer to then come in the mail,. and then you'll have to take your props off and balance them.
    So may as well get the balancer first or with your Phantom, and balance the props before you put them on.
    I splurged and got the DuBro, works really well. read up and watch video's on how to balance your props AND your hubs. (which the Dubro allows you to do).

    Graupner props are also to be considered, .. but since the Phantom comes with plastic props and a few spares,. you're probably best off starting with the standard props first,. and get into the graupners after you've got some flight time in, after the inevitable crashes that will occur.

    after that you'll want to look into isolating the camera from further vibrations, because after all, the Phantom is a device with 4 motors whirling around, there's no such thing as a vibration free Phantom.
    Unfortunately nobody has scientifically been able to determine which method works best in a controlled environment. (between Moongel, sorb ethane, rubber mounts and wire mounts.

    I'm going with the Moongel first tho, I've seen fine footage from guys who've used it.
    but imagine the wire mount might do ok as well.
     
  8. raggy

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    Huge improvement after balancing props and motors. Only one motor unbalanced but all props needed fixing.
    RSA (jello) finally eradicated by isolating camera mount with a couple of layers of thin neoprene and two thin plastic sheets so that camera mount is not screwed directly into the Phantom frame. The whole assembly still allows the Hero3 to just clear the ground.
    Some have commented that the stock props are inferior owing to their flexibility. I'm not sure that this can be true as whilst spinning and under extreme stress they will be quite rigid I believe. Not tried the Graupners though so can't make a comparison.
     
  9. pwright

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    Wouldn't it be better to get the balancer now and get proficient with the process on the props you already own and have backups for? That way you aren't learning on the more expensive Graupners.
     
  10. Gizmo3000

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    - How do you balance your motors? (i've not come across any video's of it, but guess I can google).

    - would love to see a photo of your mounting solution. I'm going to experiment a bit more as well with mine.
     
  11. BigMojo

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    Balancing your props is CHEAP and SIMPLE.

    The DuBro balance is ~$30, cheap given other costs involved with the Phantom.

    Here's a 2 second tutorial on how to do it"
    1. Mount Prop on spindle.
    2. Let it roll (make sure the balance is level)
    3. The prop blade that rolls to the bottom is heavy. Remove from the balance.
    4. Using FINE GRIT sandpaper, sand the blade (the body of it, not the leading/trailing edges), 5-10 strokes at a time.
    5. Check the balance, when neither blade "wants" to roll to the bottom, you're balanced.

    That's it. You can do 4 blades in like 20min and be good. You can be as **** about this as you want I guess. But this worked wonders for me. Oh, if you go too far with the sanding and make the unsanded blade heavy, don't worry, just sand 3-5 strokes on that blade.

    In addition, I'm using the TPPacks Isolation Mount, and I've had no jello. I've shot at 720, 60fps and 1080, 60fps.
     
  12. denodan

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    Better off to use tape when balance blades, rather then sandpaper them, it is all to easy to take to much off, so tape is the simplest and safest solution to use. I have only ever used tape to balance blades, works well. But if you wish to sand them, then fine, but most people just use tape.
     
  13. BigMojo

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    Tape works too, I like sanding with very fine grit paper because there is no chance of it coming off in flight or with time. I just go little by little, only once have I taken too much and had to sand the other blade to balance it out. But with all things, whatever works for you, do it. :cool:
     
  14. Gizmo3000

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    I saw one demo video online where instead of tape, a guy used super-fast drying glue to add weight. (and then sanded the glue portion down if necessary).
    he also used the glue to add weight to balance the hub!
     
  15. denodan

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    Yes Glue would work also, but one thing to consider when using glue, is many eat plastic, so have to watch which one to use.
     
  16. Gizmo3000

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    true true. there's only certain glues that might work on a prop.
    in the video I saw the guy used Cyanoacrylate (also known as CA).
    http://www.hooked-on-rc-airplanes.com/m ... -glue.html

    .. could even be used to prevent prop nuts from coming off (ever!!) :lol: jk
     
  17. MRSpyder2U

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    I posted this in another thread, but thought it might be of use here.

     
  18. BigMojo

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    I like that idea a lot...Will have to try that on the spare props I just got in.
     
  19. tanasit

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    I don't have the Gopro (yet) so for now I have to use my Contour Roam as pictured. First I modified the stock mount with sorbothane sheet between the mount and the frame as well as rubber grommet around the 2 mounting screws but the jello is still there. Then I tried the Velcro (the kind that has hooks on one side and loops on the other) as you can see in the pictures below, it is easy, adjustable angle and adjustable tension and most important of all it works :D
    Note that I still use the 1/8" sorbothane sheet between the Velcro and the frame.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I later added the foam for firmer hold:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. raggy

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    Photo attached as requested - not very pretty!
    It's two layers of neoprene separated by a disk of flexible plastic which is bolted to the Phantom frame through the first sheet of neoprene. The camera mount is the display mount from the Hero3 retail pack cut into a disk shape. It is bolted to the plastic disk through the second layer of neoprene.



    Horrible jello here
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAniv6n7BDM[/youtube]

    Much less jello here after balancing props and motors and using the neoprene mount. Not good enough though - double perspex plate separated by rubber isolators on order.
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n7w5mMFOVA[/youtube]

    Only one of the motors needed balancing. I got the method from a guy on Youtube which I now cannot find but I used a free vibrometer app on an Android phone. Remove props and split the Phantom casing (careful of attached wires) and disconnect the wiring from all but one motor from the Naza controller. Set the motor running (ignore warning sounds) and place the smartphone on the relevant arm to measure the vibration. If vibration is significant use a small piece of sticky tape to balance (trial and error). Repeat for each motor.


    I notice that even when all motors are reasonably balanced (as far as I can tell as a non expert) when all four are activated without the props the whole aircraft goes through irregular cycles of higher and lower vibration. I suppose it's the chaotic summations of the small residual individual imperfections in the balance of the motors and maybe the resonant frequency of the Phantom. PhD thesis anybody?
     

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