Using my drone for profit

The problem the FAA is dealing with, of course, is the fact that this is new breed of aircraft, requiring exceptions to a dozen or more existing rules that were listed in the applications for Section 333 exemptions which were recently granted. That makes things complicated. Behind the scenes, of course, are those other factors, such as pressure from the Department of Defense manufacturers who would prefer to keep the game to themselves, and the AOPA which has taken a similar stand out of safety fears. These two forces have a lot of weight to throw around and that weight has likely been used to restrain the process. We all like to blame the FAA but the reality may well be they are standing in a bureaucratic ants nest with politicians looking over their shoulders. In that respect it may be surprising that anything at all has happened, but it has been happening, behind the scenes, however slowly. A horde of hounds is all too ready to pounce on any false move, so it's no wonder the moves are made slowly and, we might think, with excessive caution.

So where does that leave us? Clearly, the rules will need to be rewritten. People who make rules don't like them to be rewritten because they are often tangled in a web of other rules, and there's the danger of a domino effect if something is overlooked; some detail missed. But there is a process for that. Aviation documents, like the FAR/AIM and Sectional Maps are revised on a regular schedule. Current sectionals already contain a new icon for "Unmanned Aircraft Activity" which also appears in the Testing Supplement used on FAA testing.

It's no simple task. Be grateful that our own FAA has not followed Australia. Sure, Australia has commercial UAV licensing, but it is very expensive to become licensed and there is a hefty fee for renewal. We really don't want that.

There are rules that need to be revised or rewritten. Exceptions must be derived for at least 15 of those regulations, including the matter of "piloting for hire". Existing test questions may need to be rewritten; there may even need to be a new pilot designation with a corresponding test. Each rule change requires a comment period before finalization and adoption.

Where do the qualifications fit in? Health certificate? Flight hours? Certified aircraft? Flight time requirements? Logging? Verification of those flight logs? Training levels? Who is to conduct the training? How do current Certified Flight Instructors become certified for this new field when almost none of them have any experience in this kind of flying? It's "Catch-22" on steroids. Like the comment in one of the applications pointed out: an airline pilot is as likely to get into trouble flying a DJI as one of us would be trying to fly an airliner. OK, so maybe they're not on the same scale but you get the idea.

So where do you place your bets? You can count on the FAA to the keep to pattern of the existing regulating structure. We can expect an FAA ground school test. Existing pilots will have a head start but they will likely need to add a special endorsement, just as a single engine pilot obtains a multi-engine endorsement, for example. Next will come qualifications for experience and some other considerations for the unique environment of low altitude remote piloted aircraft. UAS pilots can expect to be required to maintain flight logs and stay current in their skills.

Now, back to the subject at hand: "Using my drone for profit".

There is a lesson to be gleaned from the recent granting of Section 333 exemptions for some movie production companies. One applicant challenged the authority and wisdom of the FAA. That application was not granted. Surprise! In the same vein, a few months back someone in the FAA gave me some personal advice that if I intend to obtain a license I should "stay off the radar" with regard to the FAA.

Pilot licenses don't come from a vending machine, so if your name shows up on a list of offenders you could find yourself locked out of the game. Daring the FAA at this point in the process is not wise. Like Santa Claus, you can bet a list is being made. Things will be starting to come together soon enough; possibly sooner than you think. Don't blow it now.

You can start by studying the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, logging your flying time, applying for N-Numbers for your aircraft, collecting a few safety items, checking into insurance sources, and then wait patiently for the door to open.

It will open.

N741TT-300x225.jpg
 
All good points Timtro, i agree. As far the whole "staying off the radar" thing, i'm doing what i can to be "quiet" and not draw attention to myself. My issue is that my pilot's certificate is my lively hood, so I want to follow the rules so i don't have an regulation enforcement brought against me. I guess that's my biggest concern, losing my privilege to fly! I love flying more than pretty much anything else, so that's what scares me the most. Operating in the gray area that may end up with me in trouble later down the road for having done something (potentially) in the past. Don't want the past to catch up to me...
 
Timtro: I love your advice. For someone like me eager to learn, but also to "follow the rules", I'm going to take your advice. Though admittedly, applying for an N-Number seems a bit intimidating right at the moment, I already ordered the Pilot's Handbook and plan to take the logging quite seriously. I actually purchased some insurance the other day (for equipment) but need to look into the liability end of it as well...
 
FlyingRabbit said:
Timtro: I love your advice. For someone like me eager to learn, but also to "follow the rules", I'm going to take your advice. Though admittedly, applying for an N-Number seems a bit intimidating right at the moment, I already ordered the Pilot's Handbook and plan to take the logging quite seriously. I actually purchased some insurance the other day (for equipment) but need to look into the liability end of it as well...

Nothing to reserving an N number - http://aircraft.faa.gov/e.gov/NN/reserve.aspx Fill out the online form and pay $10. It's about the easiest step in the whole process.

N742TT-150x150.jpg


Also check my blog at http://www.SouthernHelicam.com/blog and follow @SouthernHelicam
I'm going through the process and reporting my experience and progress.

Also check out TheUAVDigest.com, especially podcast #61. http://theuavdigest.com/uav061-regs-regs-and-more-faa-regs/
 
birdheezy said:
So how does one go about applying for the section 333 exemption?

I answered my own question. You can view the FAA's step by step process at the link below.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/legislative_programs/section_333/how_to_file_a_petition/

The Section 333 Exemption may not be the best path for a small business at this point but using the successful applications as a pattern is certainly the smart way to go about it. That being said, it's possible that Agriculture may be the next application to see FAA acceptance through the 333 Exemption path.
 
the FAA just wants to keep everything on the ground haha. Thought that was funny.

There's an old salt among pilots - "An airplane cannot legally fly unless the paperwork weighs as much as the plane".
When I was flying, my flight bag with all the necessary paper charts weighed 30 pounds. Fortunately I was not required to have my engine and airframe logbooks on board because they were another twenty-pounds.
 
birdheezy said:
My issue is that my pilot's certificate is my lively hood, so I want to follow the rules so i don't have an regulation enforcement brought against me.

I hadn't thought of it in that direction. If Pirker had been a certified pilot, you would probably have seen the FAA try to revoke his certificate. It probably wouldn't have changed his defense but it would have raised the stakes.

Edit - the day after this post, I get this on a pilot's forum:
From AVwebFlash:
Drone Enforcement Will Target Certificated Pilots

Last week, the FAA issued Change 6 to the Compliance and Enforcement Handbook for its inspectors, providing enforcement guidelines for violation of the FARs by drone operators. Among its provisions, it establishes a basis for holding certificated aircraft pilots to a higher standard than other drone operators, potentially leading to harsher punishments for certificated pilots who violate a reg when flying a drone. The FAA said the enforcement bulletin was issued because "there is an increasing number of UAS (Unmanned Aircraft Systems—drones) operations conducted in the United States that are operated contrary to applicable statutory and regulatory requirements. These operations may create unacceptable levels of safety risk in the National Airspace System (NAS)."

The guidance goes on to point out that the FAA will use its resources to educate drone operators about regulatory compliance and, "when appropriate," take enforcement action against violators. As is standard practice with FAA enforcement guidelines, the guidance provides a list of considerations an inspector should look at in determining whether to take action against a violator and how harsh the penalty should be. The guidance specifically points out that certificated pilots should know better than to violate an FAR—"a certificate holder should appreciate the potential for endangerment that operating a UAS contrary to the FAA's safety regulations may cause." Therefore, the guidance provides that if the offender is a certificated pilot, her or his status as such may be considered an aggravating factor when considering the sanction to apply. Sanctions are ordinarily civil penalties, which are essentially fines. However, if the violator is a pilot, the guidance allows the FAA to pursue action against the pilot's airman certificate, including suspension or revocation.

So, now they are changing their tactics and targeting certified pilots. All they have to do is threaten them with emergency revocation to scare them into a voluntary admission of guilt, adding "wins" to their kit. It matters not that the prior court decisions have put their jurisdiction in question.
 
SteveMann said:
birdheezy said:
My issue is that my pilot's certificate is my lively hood, so I want to follow the rules so i don't have an regulation enforcement brought against me.
I hadn't thought of it in that direction. If Pirker had been a certified pilot, you would probably have seen the FAA try to revoke his certificate. It probably wouldn't have changed his defense but it would have raised the stakes.
If Pirker had been a licensed pilot, he wouldn't have risked making the video.
 
RussA said:
There is a difference between using a drone for profit and using it for compensation or hire

Not to the FAA. The word "profit" does not appear anywhere in the FAR's. It's either a personal flight or a flight for compensation.
 
RussA said:
If Pirker had been a licensed pilot, he wouldn't have risked making the video.
Where does this come from?
Have you seen the Pirker video? I have, and there was nothing in it that could by any stretch of the imagination be reckless or dangerous.
 
SteveMann said:
RussA said:
If Pirker had been a licensed pilot, he wouldn't have risked making the video.
Where does this come from?
Have you seen the Pirker video? I have, and there was nothing in it that could by any stretch of the imagination be reckless or dangerous.

I think he means that if Pirker were already "under the thumb" of the FAA by having a pilot's license, he wouldn't risk losing it. That's a dilemma for any current licensed pilot.
 
Ianwood - when Pirker got the attention of the FAA, the individual inspectors did not have guidance of how to use a certificate action. (The individual FAA inspectors can't do anything outside of their handbook - bureaucrats to the end). They do now. I believe that the FAA's thinking is that threatening a certificate action is an easy way to get some fast guilty pleas.
 
I had an interesting experience the other day.

I wanted to take pictures of an old building. This old building also sits on property that, according to my knowledge, is partially owned and run by the State Parks Department. They actually have a field for flying model planes. But it's also unclear what areas are owned and run by the State.

I literally wanted to get 5 minutes of video footage and some photos. I sent up the Phantom for photos first (battery #1). Got some good shots. Brought it down after about 7 minutes to change batteries. While changing batteries, Park Ranger approached in his pickup.

He told me (and my husband who was with me) that we couldn't flying there, we had to get a permit and fly in the appropriate field. We were courteous and polite and listened to what he was saying and he moved on. He stayed in the area and I decided to flag him down and ask a few more questions.

My confusion, I told him, was that what I specifically wanted to do was take photos... so getting a permit to fly in the "airfield" is fine and I'll look into that, but it doesn't help me with taking the photos and videos I want to take. If I were to fly the drone from the appropriate airfield to where I want to take photos, it would be out of my sight, which itself would be against regulations and law (as I understand them). All I need is a permit to fly the thing 100 feet straight up, maybe in a 100 foot radius and take the aerial shots I need.

He said he was familiar with all the FAA stuff going on as he flies RC too... he was sorry to be the "party pooper" and made some good suggestions, such as going straight to the parks department and asking for permission there first, and getting a permit from the AMA. I'm going to try to do that, and I'll be interested to see what happens when I call the parks department.

In the meantime, although I didn't get any video footage, I did manage to get a nice shot of that building none-the-less...

93high.jpg
 
There's so much wrong here.
... it would be out of my sight, which itself would be against regulations and law
There are no regulations or law in the US covering BLOS.

... and getting a permit from the AMA.
WHAT!!! Who gave the AMA legal rulemaking and enforcement status? The AMA is a private membership organization that has been and still is hostile to drones and FPV. Any documentation you receive from the AMA is not worth the spit to lick a stamp.
 
SteveMann said:
There's so much wrong here.
... it would be out of my sight, which itself would be against regulations and law
There are no regulations or law in the US covering BLOS.

... and getting a permit from the AMA.
WHAT!!! Who gave the AMA legal rulemaking and enforcement status? The AMA is a private membership organization that has been and still is hostile to drones and FPV. Any documentation you receive from the AMA is not worth the spit to lick a stamp.

Her (the OP) post states that the park contains an AMA sanctioned flying field. She needs a membership/permit from the AMA to fly in one of their fields.

I was of the understanding that the AMA was actually doing a lot of lobbying to keep us flying, and are working to keep all RC toys flying. They publish articles on both FPV and Drones...

I'm curious what specific evidence you have that would convince me that the AMA is hostile to drones and FPV?
 
FlyingRabbit said:
and getting a permit from the AMA.
The AMA''s "jurisdiction" (and insurance coverage) does not extend beyond a designated AMA field, as far as I can tell. (AMA member)
 
RussA said:
SteveMann said:
birdheezy said:
My issue is that my pilot's certificate is my lively hood, so I want to follow the rules so i don't have an regulation enforcement brought against me.
I hadn't thought of it in that direction. If Pirker had been a certified pilot, you would probably have seen the FAA try to revoke his certificate. It probably wouldn't have changed his defense but it would have raised the stakes.
If Pirker had been a licensed pilot, he wouldn't have risked making the video.

It is clear, at least to me at this point, that when the rules come down, a pilot certificate will be a requirement, so this issue will become moot.
 

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