Upgrading the Vision 2 camera?

[texami]

Interesting sensor size comparison link.

http://www.gizmag.com/camera-sensor-siz ... ictures#13

Full Frame cameras (body only) begin selling for $1400.
Aps-c dslr cameras are found in a Canon Rebel for $500-900.

Also consider there will never be a P2V with a "Full Frame" or "Aps-c" sensor-ed camera because it would be too heavy. Octocopters and hexacopters can carry these heavy cameras.

Another interesting sensor size comparison link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Senso ... pdated.svg

 

[Nvr2fst]

Anyone who knows me will know that i'm a sucker for a gadget / gizmo / upgrade etc but i've resigned myself to the fact that even with a decent bit of glass, the sensor is never going to give the type of quality i'd hoped for. Misguided hope? Well yes but we can all get carried away with the hype and pictures of people bouncing on a beach.
My hope is that DJI already have Vision Cam II in the pipeline and it will just be a straight swop, plug and play upgrade for around $500. Thats me sorted then (as long as it can easily be retro-fitted into the Dronexpert gimbal).

Would you really spend another $500 to replace this camera you already bought?

As for myself, I am now watching the competitors and their offerings. No more money in what I have now. That is why I am selling it all. I will wait and see what is coming. This platform can only be pushed so far before the money just gets too ridiculous without any real gains. After adding it all up, holding out and spending more on a quality rig will be the way I go forward.

The Vision is a cool flying machine, I give it that. It does well enough in the video department to hook new people. DJI is like Apple. They are incrementally adding new things on each new machine when the tech is already there. They just want to spoon feed you a little at a time to keep you buying more. Basically getting you to pay more for their intentional shortcomings. This is just what Apple does.

 

[jimre]

The photos I've just posted were taken by my wife. She's no tripod.

Well she did have the advantage of optical image stabilization, something you definitely won't find in P2V-class cameras. Or even in $400 GoPros, for that matter.

The crap Vision photo I posted yesterday was shot at almost 1/1000th of a second so, not much chance for motion blur there.

Plus it's very easy to tell the difference between unsharpness caused by camera shake, unsharpness caused by poor focus and unsharpness caused by a crap lens

Peter, wow, the photo you posted the other day is indeed completely unsharp:
http://www.painting-photography-france. ... t-crop.psd

What sharpening did you use on the DNG file?

 

[Nvr2fst]

No doubt the next camera will be better but will it be a standalone or on a new Phantom altogether.

 

[texami]

Anyone who knows me will know that i'm a sucker for a gadget / gizmo / upgrade etc but i've resigned myself to the fact that even with a decent bit of glass, the sensor is never going to give the type of quality i'd hoped for. Misguided hope? Well yes but we can all get carried away with the hype and pictures of people bouncing on a beach.
My hope is that DJI already have Vision Cam II in the pipeline and it will just be a straight swop, plug and play upgrade for around $500. Thats me sorted then (as long as it can easily be retro-fitted into the Dronexpert gimbal).

Would you really spend another $500 to replace this camera you already bought?

As for myself, I am now watching the competitors and their offerings. No more money in what I have now. That is why I am selling it all. I will wait and see what is coming. This platform can only be pushed so far before the money just gets too ridiculous without any real gains. After adding it all up, holding out and spending more on a quality rig will be the way I go forward.

The Vision is a cool flying machine, I give it that. It does well enough in the video department to hook new people. DJI is like Apple. They are incrementally adding new things on each new machine when the tech is already there. They just want to spoon feed you a little at a time to keep you buying more. Basically getting you to pay more for their intentional shortcomings. This is just what Apple does.

True but Apple wouldn't sell a 1Mp iPad and expect everyone to pay top dollar. They give a quality product or one that is above average for the technology available at the time.

 

[Studiowise]

Would you really spend another $500 to replace this camera you already bought?

In truth, yes. Some rip out their already operational OEM motors and props and replace them with anti-gravity motors and carbon fibre props, I would rip out one camera and replace with another if it gave me a noticeable improvement.
I would continue on this path until a completly new package came alone which left my Frankenstein machine out in the cold (and most probably on eBay)

 

[Nvr2fst]

Yes they do sell quality products for the most part, I am an Apple user. I have too many of their products. But they do have a method for making money. It is also true that they give above average tech but they usually stay back behind at least a few others in general. They like to be seen as the top but they are a money making company and they know how to keep you buying the next one by spoon feeding us.

I really do see DJI using Apples business template. They start out as innovators and then.........

 

[Nvr2fst]

Would you really spend another $500 to replace this camera you already bought?

In truth, yes. Some rip out their already operational OEM motors and props and replace them with anti-gravity motors and carbon fibre props, I would rip out one camera and replace with another if it gave me a noticeable improvement.
I would continue on this path until a completly new package came alone which left my Frankenstein machine out in the cold (and most probably on eBay)

I know where you are coming from but man when I look at all the tech toys I have bought and how much I spent only to be bettered in a couple months. Well, it just kills me. I guess that is why they call these things a hobby. It's not a hobby if it is finished.

There is a point though that is hit when these things have reached their pinnacle. Like TVs are now. There really isn't much more they can do that will make the picture any better than you can actually see. The same for cameras too. But we are still fed this old tech. Because if they don't, what will make us want the next one.

 

[68gtconv]

As for myself, I am now watching the competitors and their offerings. No more money in what I have now. That is why I am selling it all. I will wait and see what is coming. This platform can only be pushed so far before the money just gets too ridiculous without any real gains. After adding it all up, holding out and spending more on a quality rig will be the way I go forward.

The Vision is a cool flying machine, I give it that. It does well enough in the video department to hook new people. DJI is like Apple. They are incrementally adding new things on each new machine when the tech is already there. They just want to spoon feed you a little at a time to keep you buying more. Basically getting you to pay more for their intentional shortcomings. This is just what Apple does.[/quote]


I'm with you, DJI and there dealer who is supposed to be handling warranty service are both atrocious. I can phone there dealer but they told me for support only e-mail is available. They take about a week to reply to e-mail, and I get conflicting responses. I tried there live chat but they don't respond. I e-mailed DJI and they gave me there new support number which I have called dozens of times and never gotten through, you can't leave a message. I am now looking for something better, and even if DJI came out the the pro version of the phantom I have read rumors about I don't think I would purchase from them again. I think there poor service is there way of making problems go away.

 

[Peter Evans]

Peter, wow, the photo you posted the other day is indeed completely unsharp:

http://www.painting-photography-france. ... t-crop.psd

What sharpening did you use on the DNG file?

That was a quick use of Smart Sharpen in PS CC. The complete lack of detail in that ivy is totally unacceptable. I'd definitely like to see other similar images to see whether this is a widespread issue or whether I'm just unlucky and have a have a duff example.

Maybe I should start a new thread asking for 100% centre crops so that we can get some idea?

 

[Bunyarra]

Well, these lot were taken with both a slightly blurry camera and a replacement sharp one. They can print A4 sized quite well. Sure, they are not up to the 5DIII standard I use normally but the price point means I never expected that much more.

https://plus.google.com/photos/11302320 ... p2LhIz9nwE

 

[Peter Evans]

Well, these lot were taken with both a slightly blurry camera and a replacement sharp one.

Well Mike, those are really great photos (congratulations!) but unfortunately they aren't high enough resolution to help me compare your camera's output with mine.

Assuming they were shot in RAW, is there any chance you could post a 100% completely unprocessed centre crop from DJI00096 on this thread ?

http://www.phantompilots.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6890

or send it to me privately? I've sent you a PM

 

[texami]

Congrats on the images Mike! I am not sure my vision camera would find that much detail in the highway railing.

I plan on taking some photos today in a side by side comparison of point-and-shoot vs the phantom using your standards Peter.

If the point-and-shoot out performs the vision we will know it is the lens thats causing the problem because they have the same size sensor.

 

[texami]

This is a good comparison because both the Phantom 2V and Canon have the same image sensor (1/2.3).
Both images were taken side by side at the same instance off a brick wall.

The Canon is a medium priced point-and-shoot. By comparing the detail in both images, the Phantom is the clear looser. There is either something wrong with the clarity of the lenses or the focusing on the Phantom. I would expect the images coming from the P2V to equal that of the Cannon(or something in the $300 point-&-shoot range). Especially since the P2V advertises 14Mp "high end Camera" and its' steep price of $1200. I did not expect the quality of a DSLR from the P2V.

Canon SX260HS- a medium priced point-and-shoot($300). It does not have RAW option so used JPEG, but has the same sensor size as the Phantom 2 vision (1/2.3). Canon will only shoot up to 12Mp while the phantom claims to shoot at 14Mp. This is the type of image the Phantom should be producing for the 14Mp hype.

I need something to offer my customers. I can work with a Canon type image. The P2V camera needs to be recalled and replaced because it can't focus properly. I am hoping the cameras will be replaced by February.

If DJI is not planning to fix the focusing problem until there yearly upgrade, I will be furious along with many others.

 

[Peter Evans]

Unfortunately, that comparison doesn't work Tex. It's Apples and Pears.

The RAW image has had nothing done to it, nothing at all. The jpeg image has had everything done to it, sharpening, noise reduction, etc. etc.

How did you fix the P2V onto a tripod ?

 

[Bunyarra]

This is a good comparison because both the Phantom 2V and Canon have the same image sensor (1/2.3).

Sorry - they are not the same sensor at all. That's like saying a Honda is the same as a BMW just because they both have the same engine size. The two sensors might (or might not) be the same size but they are considerably different technologies and have vastly different electronics behind them.

There are absolutely focus issues with the camera - mine was swapped with no argument. Yup - even the new one is not as good as a £200 point and shoot but then the latter has a heavy lens, far more electronics and weighs considerably more.

It's not perfect but then nothing in life really is. If it is not good enough, I guess selling it is the best option and go for a £2k rig plus gimbal for a decent camera. This is probably the route I will go down later this year when I have grown out of this.

I wish it was better but then the price would be more.

 

[AnselA]

DJI has fixed the focus... it's a fixfocus lens

 

[AllanVB]

DJI has fixed the focus... it's a fixfocus lens

Ha Ha

 

[iResq]

Clearly you cannot draw conclusions based on sensor size alone. I'd be willing to bet that the optics are the larger issue.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[jimre]

This is a good comparison because both the Phantom 2V and Canon have the same image sensor (1/2.3).
Both images were taken side by side at the same instance off a brick wall.

The Canon is a medium priced point-and-shoot. By comparing the detail in both images, the Phantom is the clear looser. There is either something wrong with the clarity of the lenses or the focusing on the Phantom. I would expect the images coming from the P2V to equal that of the Cannon(or something in the $300 point-&-shoot range). Especially since the P2V advertises 14Mp "high end Camera" and its' steep price of $1200. I did not expect the quality of a DSLR from the P2V.

Canon SX260HS- a medium priced point-and-shoot($300). It does not have RAW option so used JPEG, but has the same sensor size as the Phantom 2 vision (1/2.3). Canon will only shoot up to 12Mp while the phantom claims to shoot at 14Mp. This is the type of image the Phantom should be producing for the 14Mp hype.

I need something to offer my customers. I can work with a Canon type image. The P2V camera needs to be recalled and replaced because it can't focus properly. I am hoping the cameras will be replaced by February.

If DJI is not planning to fix the focusing problem until there yearly upgrade, I will be furious along with many others.

Wow, I think we all got a great deal on a multicopter! Free with purchase of $1200 camera!