Updated Firmware - Now Having "Problem"

[dollerprod]

First please let me say I know that it's likely this has been posted, but time is really hard to come by at the moment for me to research extensively, and I'm just too **** frustrated not to post as I have a brief window of time here to do so.

So, for whatever reason, even though things were going fine, I decided to connect my P2 to the Assistant Software and it prompted me to upgrade from 3.0 to 3.06 (I think that's right, not at home to verify). So did that, and did calibrations after. Then went out to test it.

Now my P2 flys like a little *****. To the point of boringly slow. It's gotta be 50% less performance and descending is insanely slow. I've only had it for about 5 flights, and to me, this is not the product I ordered and won't be happy with it like this at all. My interest is to film surfing and MOTO and I need the speed it had when I bought it!

How in the world can I get it back to where it was? Please(!) help. I will read up when I have time, but it's hard for me to comb through for an hour or two online.

Can I revert back?? I think I was on 3.00..

 

[HarryT]

You can revert back to 3.04. Just download and run Phantom Assistant 3.0 and it will offer to "upgrade" you to 3.04.

You've presumably tried flying in ATTI mode? You can go a lot faster in ATTI than GPS.

 

[QYV]

I think you might have been on version 2, not 3 firmware before. In v2 they introduced a 3m/s descent rate limit, and in the v3 firmwares they further dropped it to 2m/s. the reason for the descent rate limit is to help avoid a situation called VRS - Vortex Ring State. basically if a rotary wing craft (helicopters have this problem too) descends straight down too quickly into the downward-moving air from it's propellers, it can't generate lift and plummets from the sky (the solution is simple, always maintain some lateral movement when descending). DJI was replacing a lot of phantoms under warranty for this type of crash, and rather than keep doing that they made the descent rate limit so slow it generally isn't a problem and anybody can just hold the stick straight down to descend.

Furthermore, in Phantom Mode or GPS in Naza mode they did indeed decrease the maximum angle that the Phantom will tilt laterally, which effectively slows you maximum lateral speed. Their reasons for this aren't quite as clear but secondhand accounts here from people that supposedly got a response from DJI say it's something else along those lines.. they think the decreased performance will lead to less crashes and warranty replacements.
It's not exactly a 50% performance hit though... they limited the tilt angle from 35 to 25 degrees, taking your max lateral speed from approximately the low-30mph range to the mid 20mph range I believe, definitely not half as fast although the aforemented descent rate limit was decreased by a full third (3 to 2m/s)

The reason I specified "in Phantom or Naza/GPS mode" is because you can get the prior lateral angle and therefore speed back (not descent rate unfortunately) in Naza/ATTI mode. You have to switch your flight computer from Phantom to Naza which if you aren't familiar with you should definitely research thoroughly first! anyway once in Naza mode, when the S1 (right) toggle is in GPS mode it acts just like Phantom mode and with the lower speed limit. If you flip to ATTI mode several things happen: first off you get the 35degree lateral tile back so it can move faster however the Phantom no longer tries to hold it's GPS position so it'll drift with any winds, and also if you move laterally it will not automatically counteract the movement when you release the stick... so say you're moving forward when you let off the stick it will continue to drift forward unless you apply reverse thrust... follow?

FYI there's a LOT more to Naza mode, that's just the bits that apply to speed so please don't go into Naza mode casually. for example it drastically changes the blink codes of the indicator lights.

anyway getting that speed back is what finally made me go to Naza mode.... I find myself flipping back and forth between GPS and ATTI many times during a flight... mostly in GPS mode but if I ever want to move fast I just flip to ATTI and boogie.

I wouldn't bother reverting back to a prior v3 firmware, they all have the limits I discussed above. I don't think there's a way to revert back to the v2 firmware at all, and the only other option is version 1.08 which takes ALL those safety precautions off but I strongly advise against that, so many other improvements have been made since 1.08 when I tried it I felt like it was really unstable, and after the 2nd time my Phantom kicked into auto-land but my battery was full I said screw it and went back to v3.

Many people here have expressed the same frustration as you: our device now doesn't perform like it used to and certain camera shots are harder another example is trying to chase cars. Many of us more experienced pilots wish that these settings would be user-configurable in the assistant sw

 

[ProfessorStein]

Re: Updated Firmware - Now Having "Problem"

Many of us more experienced pilots wish that these settings would be user-configurable in the assistant sw

But I think anyone can understand why it is not. If it was user-configurable, DJI would still have to cover the accidents under warranty. By making it NOT user-configurable, you in effect void your warranty if you jigger anything to change the settings to anything other than what the factory hard-coded into the firmware.

One of the pitfalls of a platform (ANY platform... be it quadcopter, stereo equipment, chainsaw, anything) gaining in popularity... the manufacturer has to begin looking liability and legal ramifications a lot more strictly than they did when they were first starting out. And, often times, this leads to safety measures that reduce the performance of the original platform. An unfortunate reality.

 

[QYV]

I'm certainly no legal expert but I'd think a lawyer could come up with some sort of agreement that effectively yields
"if you alter the limits you void the warranty" or "if you change these settings we reserve the right to deny warranty claim"

I'd gladly accept loss of warranty if they'd give me my better speed and more importantly faster descent rate back. I'm sick of burning multiple minutes of battery life just descending

 

[ProfessorStein]

Re: Updated Firmware - Now Having "Problem"

I'm certainly no legal expert but I'd think a lawyer could come up with some sort of agreement that effectively yields
"if you alter the limits you void the warranty" or "if you change these settings we reserve the right to deny warranty claim"

Not really. It's a pretty established precident. If the product allows a given setting, even with a disclaimer, it's considered "normal use" and the manufacturer is liable.

I'm wholeheartedly with you, though. I think the reduction is speed is frustrating (though probably more frustrating for others). Draining the battery just to get your Phantom to land isn't fun.

 

[dollerprod]

QYV I think it was 3.00 before I updated. From what I just read, 3.04 is when these restrictions were added. I could be wrong...

With the functionality I am left with, I would just as soon try and return it. It's like buying a sports car and taking it in for it's first regular service (in this case after 1 month), and then suddenly the car only goes 55mph.

Isn't there any way to just get back to 3.00? Does anyone have (or know where there is) a previous version of the assistant software? Like in their download folder? Would that work? Would I be able to 'downgrade' the firmware with a previous version of the assistant??

 

[ProfessorStein]

Isn't there any way to just get back to 3.00? Does anyone have (or know where there is) a previous version of the assistant software? Like in their download folder? Would that work? Would I be able to 'downgrade' the firmware with a previous version of the assistant??

Yep.
http://www.droneslinger.com/software.html

If you download the correct version of the Assistant, it will apparently ask if you would like to downgrade the firmware. Haven't tried it myself, but folks say it works.

EDIT: Hold on... those might be Vision-specific versions of Assistant. Hard to tell.

 

[dollerprod]

If you download the correct version of the Assistant, it will apparently ask if you would like to downgrade the firmware. Haven't tried it myself, but folks say it works.

EDIT: Hold on... those might be Vision-specific versions of Assistant. Hard to tell.

Thanks for that! I'm definitely going to try it anyway.

Also, I noticed earlier (I'm not home now) that when you go to the Phantom 2 (non-vision) product page and then go to downloads, the assistant software says "Phantom 2 Assistant Software," BUT the icon on the desktop says vision... so... don't know what to make of that, or even if it matters..

 

[ProfessorStein]

Yeah... the downloads have always been a little confusing, IMHO. They should've been named (and packaged) differently so it doesn't take a forensic scientist to figure out what's what.

 

[dollerprod]

Not quite done with this unfortunately.. couple other questions:

What update exactly did they get rid of (solve) the J-hooking/veering issues? 3.00? 3.04? Earlier?

What update exactly did they reduce the max rate of descent to 2m/sec? ..And what was it before that?

 

[QYV]

What update exactly did they reduce the max rate of descent to 2m/sec? ..And what was it before that?

I can't help with the JHooking stuff but I do know this:

Version 3.02 firmware introduced the 2m/s descent limit
Version 2.x firmware introduced a 3m/s descent limit
Version 1.x had I hear 6m/s descent limit therefore lots of VRS problems

 

[HarryT]

I believe the JHook issue is fixed in the latest firmware, 3.06. It only affects people in areas of high magnetic declination.

 

[BlackTracer]

they limited the tilt angle from 35 to 25 degrees, taking your max lateral speed from approximately the low-30mph range to the mid 20mph range I believe, definitely not half as fast although the aforemented descent rate limit was decreased by a full third (3 to 2m/s)

I flew this morning in virtually no wind (3.06, Naza mode) in GPS Atti and was traveling 33 mph in one direction and 30 in the other. There may have been a very slight tail wind in the one direction. Prior to this, after switching from 1.08 about 2 weeks ago, I have been able to get at most 26-28. The only thing different about today was that I did a GPS foil mod last night and this was the first flight with that.

I wonder if somehow that helped my speed. I don't see how.

Also speaking of descent speed, I had been running 1.08 since I got my plus in mid May and the descent speed was limited to 6 m/s. However I found myself never descending that fast for fear of VRS even tho I never come straight down. I feel like the 2 m/s I have now is just fine as I don't go over 400' up anyway.

 

[QYV]

I flew this morning in virtually no wind (3.06, Naza mode) in GPS Atti and was traveling 33 mph in one direction and 30 in the other. There may have been a very slight tail wind in the one direction. Prior to this, after switching from 1.08 about 2 weeks ago, I have been able to get at most 26-28. The only thing different about today was that I did a GPS foil mod last night and this was the first flight with that.

I wonder if somehow that helped my speed. I don't see how.

definitely wasn't that mod. The 25 degree limit is in Phantom Mode or Naza/GPS. If you were in Naza/ATTI that's why you had full speed they open ATTI back up to 35 degrees. I can't find in the official documentation where they posted the tilt/speed limit but it's heavily discussed around here, seems that they "snuck it in" in 3.04 according to a bunch of threads around here

Also speaking of descent speed, I had been running 1.08 since I got my plus in mid May and the descent speed was limited to 6 m/s. However I found myself never descending that fast for fear of VRS even tho I never come straight down. I feel like the 2 m/s I have now is just fine as I don't go over 400' up anyway.

okay my bad, I only ran v1 firmware for a few days when I first got a Phantom (enough time to have 1 rough VRS landing which made me upgrade) and I'm not intimately familiar with the release notes for V1 so... okay.. 6 it is I definitely see in the release notes for 2.0 the 3m/s and then 3.04 to 2m/s http://download.dji-innovations.com/dow ... tes_en.zip

 

[ProfessorStein]

Re: Updated Firmware - Now Having "Problem"

I flew this morning in virtually no wind (3.06, Naza mode) in GPS Atti and was traveling 33 mph in one direction and 30 in the other. There may have been a very slight tail wind in the one direction. Prior to this, after switching from 1.08 about 2 weeks ago, I have been able to get at most 26-28. The only thing different about today was that I did a GPS foil mod last night and this was the first flight with that.

First things first. There is no "GPS ATTI mode". You're either in GPS mode, or you're in ATTI mode. ATTI mode is essentially flying with GPS turned OFF (no lat/long station keeping). It's a little hard to tell what mode you were actually flying in, since you've mixed both in your description.

If you were flying in GPS, 3.0.6 supposedly eased the speed limitations for lateral manuevers. From what I remember, when 3.0.4 introduced the tighter speed restrictions, it was across the board for all manuevers. And when people complained, 3.0.6 kept the limits on descent, to help avoid VRS, but restored the faster speeds on lateral movement. So that could explain what you're seeing.

But, if you were truly flying in ATTI, then the firmware limits do not apply, anyway. Even in descent, you can go faster than the 2 or 3 m/s limit... when in ATTI. So chances are it was something else affecting your flight speed. (Not to mention your GPS mod would be largely ignored)

Others things that can affect flight speed:
- obviously, wind speed/direction. And remember wind speed can vary GREATLY even just 15-20 feet up from what it is on the deck where you're standing. So just because it was "light wind" from your perspective, your Phantom could've been benefitting from faster winds at the altitude it was flying.

- battery charge and battery condition. While LiPos are excellent at holding performance throughout a charge, there is still some degradation. The more drained your battery, the slower your motors are going to perform. Not much, but it's there. It could certainly result in.a 2-3 mph difference. Also, as the battery degrades throughout it's life, you'll see degradation there as well.

- even something as small as prop performance can affect speed. Nicks on the props can affect not only performance (typically degrading it... but I've seen them improve it in special circumstances), but balance (which can, in turn, affect performance).

There's no such thing as an apples to apples comparison for drone flights, especially in terms of performance, unless you are in a laboratory situation and can guarantee ALL variables are identical.

 

[N017RW]

Go easy on the guy...

DJI describes the 3 modes as:


" Naza-M offers three types of control modes : GPS Atti. Mode(with GPS module), Atti. Mode, Manual Mode. Customer can switch among the three modes to adjust different flight environment even in the specially weak GPS environment. "

It can be found here:

http://wiki.dji.com/en/index.php/Naza-M-V2#Features

It's also on page 9 of the NAZA-M Quick start guide v1.24

 

[QYV]

this would all be so much clearer if DJI would be more transparent in their releases notes what ALL they actually did <eyeroll>

 

[QYV]

Re: Updated Firmware - Now Having

But, if you were truly flying in ATTI, then the firmware limits do not apply, anyway. Even in descent, you can go faster than the 2 or 3 m/s limit... when in ATTI. So chances are it was something else affecting your flight speed. (Not to mention your GPS mod would be largely ignored)

looking forward to trying this... I mainly just use ATTI to move quickly laterally but I realized I've pretty much always been descending in GPS. if I can get down faster in ATTI that'll be sweet

 

[BlackTracer]

Re: Updated Firmware - Now Having

First things first. There is no "GPS ATTI mode". You're either in GPS mode, or you're in ATTI mode. ATTI mode is essentially flying with GPS turned OFF (no lat/long station keeping). It's a little hard to tell what mode you were actually flying in, since you've mixed both in your description.

Don't school me on modes. I know all about them. I was flying with GPS assistance at that time.

If you were flying in GPS, 3.0.6 supposedly eased the speed limitations for lateral manuevers. From what I remember, when 3.0.4 introduced the tighter speed restrictions, it was across the board for all manuevers. And when people complained, 3.0.6 kept the limits on descent, to help avoid VRS, but restored the faster speeds on lateral movement. So that could explain what you're seeing.

I never used 3.04. Mine was shipped with 3.0 and I switched to 1.08 on my second flight. Then I went straight to 3.06 a couple of weeks ago. I wasn't aware that 3.06 eased the angle restriction.

But, if you were truly flying in ATTI, then the firmware limits do not apply, anyway. Even in descent, you can go faster than the 2 or 3 m/s limit... when in ATTI. So chances are it was something else affecting your flight speed. (Not to mention your GPS mod would be largely ignored)

I wasn't flying in ATTI at the time I was referring to. And if you read my post carefully, I initially attributed the directional speed diff to a tailwind. Regardless, thanks for all the input though.