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Transforming a Phantom into a F 550 is possible?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by serhanuygur, Oct 10, 2013.

  1. serhanuygur

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    hi dear phantom pilots,

    because of my excessive weight of my needs , ( gimbal + go pro + Fpv tx +iOsd + long skids + prop guards + extra 1 battery)
    my phantom is having hard time on flying, so i am looking for a solution.

    i don't know if this is the place to ask, but may be i can find some answers...

    if i use all of the equipment in my Phantom, and buy a F550 Frame + 2 Motor/esc

    will i be able to fly it properly ?? using my >> Phantom remote, naza M v1 +pmuV2 ??
     
  2. DeweyAXD

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    Well while I've not done it (yet) the researched answer is yes... with a few considerations.

    There is much debate on if you'd need an 'all in one' puck style GPS module (that has the Compass in it). These were in production before the Phantom came out so there is clearly a reason why the Phantom uses a seperate compass. It could be that the shell got in the way of the compass and hence outside of a shell it is not a problem but it makes no financial sense to produce a 2 piece item if the 1 piece worked for them and was in production already. Risky to try it with the Phantom GPS in my opinion but a big money saver if it works. You would also need to protect the circuit board for it somehow.

    Other than that it is all doable. You will need to mount the status LED somehow and of course you will need to re-configure the NAZA via the assistant software to tell it to be a hex.

    RX will work but it too will need protection and if you can afford it a full range TX/RX would be well worth it... again no essential.

    I am sure others can chip in and maybe even a few that have done it. Certainly a route I am interested in going in the future. Then get a KK2 board for $30 in the old Phantom and you have two to play with!
     
  3. serhanuygur

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    thanks for the info,

    i was thinking also to cover the Esc and the control board with some kind of shrink.
    i think i will also consult to my local DJI dealer , he is a very cooperative guy. i think he will show me a way for this. i am really intended to do this because i need to lift somethign around 1 kilos.

    and btw, bcs of the esc's i need to use 3S LiPos again. right? or may i use 4S 5000+mahs
     
  4. marcus_canada

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    I have thought about it myself but it seems to be a waste of a perfectly good Phantom. the Motors & ESC's in the Phantom aren't powerful enough for a 550, not really, and the proprietary motherboard isn't any use outside the Phantom either, neither is the receiver (Well I guess you could use the rx if you wanted). Obviously the chassis is junk as well is the GPS Module, unless you want a leg hanging out the bottom of the 550 with the compass tie wrapped to it.

    So what you're essentially asking is whether it's worth junking a perfectly good Phantom just to raid the Naza out of it.... Which, when stripped down to that single question, should be answer enough... right? :D
     
  5. DeweyAXD

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    It is a fair comment by Marcus except I believe the motors supplied in the F550 ARF kit are red versions of the Phantom ones so you'd end up with 4 spares. Plus while yes you are pilaging the Naza that is the most expensive part of an F550 kit.

    It is much more worth it if you do have a non stock TX as you can then get the Phantom back in use with the KK2 or Ardupilot for about fairly little outlay (KK2 + UBEC + 6 channel RX). Sure it is not GPS but a perfectly stable flyer.... more importantly you have a portable camera platform.

    Sadly anyway you slice it in you current situation you are looking at a pretty big outlay. Get a spread sheet going to compare costs... there are some amazing deals on f550 + NAZA v2 + Zenmuse right now and you may be better getting that and selling either the Phantom or the parts you don't need.

    Pretty sure 30a ESC's with the f550 ARF kit can cope with 4s with the v2 PMU. Without v2 PMU it'll be 3s only.
     
  6. serhanuygur

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    What about the Pmu V2?

    i have a Pmu v2 on my phantom also (i bought it for iOSD mini.)
    does it means that i may use 4S batteries now?

    What i was thinking was;

    i can take out the shell of Phantom, add 2 more motors and Esc, not messing up with any electrical equipment of phantom except adding 2 more esc plugs to naza, and move everything in the F550, tie the compass to an extension (like landing skids just as on phantom)

    Adjust the platform for a hexa from naza assistant,

    and it may work just as well...

    may be i am missing something and it is not simple as that...


    Of Course selling and buying a new set with zenmuse is another choice. in order to do that, i need to find a customer for phantom and u know prices are going down bcs of the new version... soo... i am really confused.
     
  7. martcerv

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    You cant use phantom esc's with 4s batteries and I dont know how the dji stock motors go with 4s and what prop size they can handle. Spec wise for the tiger motors I use they can run 4s with 10 inch proos but says it gets hot. Can dji motors run a 4s and 10 inch props?

    I have considered doing this but I basically made uogrades to my phantom with bits id like to use on a larger setup down the road. The only thing I would need is the gps unit frame and esc' to buikd any other quad or hex. I just dont think the 550 is a very practical size and a little overkill if fkying a gopro even with a gimbal. The 450 for me would be a better choice allowing 10 inch prios and larger batteries is about the only advantage over the phantom but then the tbs frame may be a better way to go also.
     
  8. DeweyAXD

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    Pretty sure the motors can take it cause the voltage they get is no differnt than from a 3s. It is just regulated at the PMU.

    Example kit: http://www.buildyourowndrone.co.uk/DJI- ... exakit.htm

    DJI stock motors and 3s - 4s suggested. DJI's site suggest 10" too so I can't see why it wouldn't work. PMUv2 is used on the f550 kits so that will be fine. Just the ESC's need to be beefier I reckon (people don't take my word for this... I say again I've not done this myself!! :lol: )

    This 'could' work but the ESC's will very likely cook themselves. Again ask yourself why DJI use 30a on everything other than a 330 size frame.
    Likewise hanging the compass 'might' work... or it might not and you risk the whole thing flying off into the sunset. Just not worth the risk if it were me but if you are feeling brave give it a go and see if there is a saving to be made. I'd suggest bench testing the motors/escs without props and see what the heat is like before any flying too.
     
  9. martcerv

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    Isnt voltage regulated by the ESC, power goes direct from battery to ESC's the PMU regulates power to the controller and other accessories if lower voltage is needed.

    I just checked that my DJI AVL58 TX can be powered by 2s to 6s so this means everything on my setup could easily run 4s batts but battery drain would be very high. Needing a much larger battery but looking at the figures below even in a quad setup using 4s with my motors and 10 inch props or 9x5 tri's it can easily lift over 2kg at 50% throttle so the added weight of battery wouldnt be as costly as on a heavy 3s setup.

    I guess 10 inch props on 4s should be ok with the stock motors but youd likely want to upgrade the ESC's or at least confirm the spec that they can handle 4s.

    Here is the chart for my motors and by the look of it you'd almost get away with 18a ESC on these but I wouldnt try, 4s with 10x3.8 APC props uses 18.1A at 100% throttle and gives 1280g of thrust this should be possible with my phantom 4s mod using 9x5 GWS and 30a ESC. Would be awesome on a 550 too getting 5120g max thrust on a quad and 7680 on a hex. :mrgreen: 50% throttle with these is 4.2A and 540g thrust so can lift 2160g at 50% throttle and 32040g on a hex at 50%.

    [​IMG]

    This is also probably the reason why kv 800 or lower motors may be better with 4s battery and this size of prop unless flying a pretty heavy setup the 50% thrust is a bit too high and the lower kv 800 is much more efficiant at the RPM levels needed with not much less lift.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. miskatonic

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    The answer in short is F450 you could convert without too much trouble.

    An F550 is bird of a different feather. I am am building an F550 from scratch and it is actually more efficient to buy a kit than to convert a Phantom. You would need better and larger motors. You also need 30amp ESCs. On top of that you would need a couple of things that are easier to buy than to convert. You will need a a NAZA puck GPS, PMU, LED.
    You should probably get a new receiver/transmitter. About the only thing you would be able to take the NAZA itself, but it is fairly cheap to buy a new one. So to sum it up. It isn't worth it to convert. Just build an F550 from scratch.

    :)
     
  11. BruceTS

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  12. thetac

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    That is a great deal....i paid $1000 for my 550 flame!!
     
  13. miskatonic

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    $700 is a crappy deal. If you shop around you can part out an F550 and put it together in a customized way for around $300 less. :lol:
     
  14. Scottd9000

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    So you are saying you could look around and get a F550 with naza v2 for $400? Links please!
     
  15. BruceTS

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    doubt that..... or did you not read that it comes with a NAZA V2 as well, that alone is $400 separate, $350 on eBay, today.
     
  16. martcerv

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    If you get this package deal and add it to a f550 frame kit you shouod be able to get a 550, naza v2 and h3d2 zenmuse for around $1000 ;)

    http://www.multiwiicopter.com/products/ ... combo-deal

    The rest should easily be found under $300 and if you dont want the gimbal you could sell it for $500 or more making your setup $1000 minus whatever you sell the gimbal for.
     
  17. miskatonic

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    There is no hardware difference in the NAZA V2 GPS. Many people are selling it for $70-80 over the V1 GPS. I picked up a NAZA v2 +LED+PMU and V1 GPS for $256 brand new.

    Motors were $200 and they are 2810/720kv, ESCs were $120.