Threatening Email about FAA regulation

[bassethoundeye]

Let's be real. Flying for your friend and he gives you $1 buck for you to recharge battery is still illegal.
If you are a law abiding citizen like this, then good for you. Live that way.

If you want to fly for fun and at least get compensated for your effort, the safe way is just contacting them directly (people look for drone operator on criagslist sometimes) and just make an agreement you are getting paid for something else.
Having a website or posting an ad with portfolios to your youtube channel can be risky in the long run.

Like I said, drones are becoming cheaper, easier to operate and coming out with better cameras so that average individuals can shoot decent videos. When people need several images of their houses, short video of their wedding, videos of them doing Xsports, they are not likely to call pro guys and pay $$$.
(how much do they charge? $500 minimum I think? you can buy decent drone with that money now)
They will just find some guys online or from their friends to shoot for them and give them some money. It's illegal according to FAA but how can they track down thousands of drone owners?

So if you want to stay in Drone operating business, you better have killer set up (like Red camera on a drone) and go after very high profile clients.

 

[bassethoundeye]

Thank you sir. I slept better last night after reading several replies. now I can sleep without any worries!

Interesting that no one has really answered the OP's question.

The FAA will not issue a violation letter based on hearsay. They have to have provable evidence of a violation and a crybaby whining that you are flying illegally won't do.

The local FSDO may send you an educational letter. The educational letter has absolutely no legal standing and will not compel you to respond to the charges. It will be carefully crafted to scare the **** out of you, but it is not a legal order. That can only come from the enforcement division.
If you get such a violation letter, it will list the rules you have busted, the date, time and location of the violation, and a suggested civil forfeiture to settle the matter. That letter should be taken to an aviation attorney.

At this time there is no FAA rule that would make your flight illegal. (I am still waiting for someone to tell me what rule would be broken). The SkyPan case is an attempt to establish that precedent using aircraft certification as the basis for enforcement. It is going to be an interesting case to watch.

 

[phantomized]

It's 2015, the people will need to adapt, and soon enough every household in America and other places will have drones in their homes. A drone that can pick up your mail, make you coffee, perhaps even bring you groceries. I wonder if commercial use indoors on private property would change the rules. Right now though, it's really confusing.

 

[phantomized]

Let's be real. Flying for your friend and he gives you $1 buck for you to recharge battery is still illegal.
If you are a law abiding citizen like this, then good for you. Live that way.

If you want to fly for fun and at least get compensated for your effort, the safe way is just contacting them directly (people look for drone operator on criagslist sometimes) and just make an agreement you are getting paid for something else.
Having a website or posting an ad with portfolios to your youtube channel can be risky in the long run.

Like I said, drones are becoming cheaper, easier to operate and coming out with better cameras so that average individuals can shoot decent videos. When people need several images of their houses, short video of their wedding, videos of them doing Xsports, they are not likely to call pro guys and pay $$$.
(how much do they charge? $500 minimum I think? you can buy decent drone with that money now)
They will just find some guys online or from their friends to shoot for them and give them some money. It's illegal according to FAA but how can they track down thousands of drone owners?

So if you want to stay in Drone operating business, you better have killer set up (like Red camera on a drone) and go after very high profile clients.

There are many beautiful countries and unlimited places to explore, and there will always be a market for people that want to see amazing things. In a sense, you could look at it as journalism, freedom of speech and expression. A right, not a privilege. An art. A hobby. If someone does something stupid with it, it should be treated the same way as if someone did something stupid with another object, like a laser pointer. You point a laser at an airplane, you get in big trouble. Same with drones, you get caught flying near airplanes, you get in deep trouble. But flying responsibly should have nothing to do with exemptions and paying the Government sick amounts of money so you can fly your drone and make $1 somewhere in the process.

Just look at Uber, they are operating in a similar fashion in many cities around the world, are they legal with UberX? I don't know, from an insurance stand point, probably not. But they do call themselves a "technology" company and not a taxi for hire. I see something similar for drones.

What if I flew my drone and some random person seen me flying and said "hey, that's awesome, here's $20 I want you to stay here and fly your drone for 20 minutes so I can watch it". Is that commercial use? What if he just gave me $20 and said nothing? Just because I was flying the drone and I made money does it make it commercial? How about I am flying as a hobby but I catch some amazing footage of a tornado, a crime, a serious accident, an explosion and sell it to a newspaper or publish it online? What if I have ads on my website but my videos are showcasing a HOBBY flight? Is that commercial use?

 

[Meta4]

What if I flew my drone and some random person seen me flying and said "hey, that's awesome, here's $20 I want you to stay here and fly your drone for 20 minutes so I can watch it". Is that commercial use? What if he just gave me $20 and said nothing? Just because I was flying the drone and I made money does it make it commercial?

Instead of asking a bunch of anonymous forum members that will give you all sorts of answers, see what the FAA themselves say:
https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/model_aircraft_spec_rule.pdf

How about I am flying as a hobby but I catch some amazing footage of a tornado, a crime, a serious accident, an explosion and sell it to a newspaper or publish it online? What if I have ads on my website but my videos are showcasing a HOBBY flight? Is that commercial use?

Contrary to some opinions, the FAA don't care if you have ads on your Youtube channel.
That doesn't constitute commercial use.
The FAA have advised that in the case of getting important news footage, you can sell that as a recreational flyer without penalty.
That shows how screwy the whole thing is.
The FAA should stick to aviation safety rather than determining who can and who can't sell photos.

 

[bassethoundeye]

It would be fine if you use the common sense.

It's nothing wrong offering people ride here and there on criagslist and charge money for it.
But you might get in trouble if you try to make a living out of it especially if you get into an accident.
OR a taxi neighbor guy who is not making enough money lately, just want to report you.

It's not interesting market anyways. you get lots of attention when you fly it and people come up to you to say how cool it is. Will they fork out even $20 bucks to be filmed? No.
Heck, just to make cool videos on my own, I offered some people to film them for free on instagram. Haven't heard from them yet.

So I wouldn't waste time looking for Customers. But when there is a need, you can charge money at individual levels and you should be fine.
Just be aware though, there are Drone %@*#&'s who will try to report you because they are not making money and want to blame on you.
(By the way, I can advertise my photo/video service all day long for Cash without having business license and No One would care)

There are many beautiful countries and unlimited places to explore, and there will always be a market for people that want to see amazing things. In a sense, you could look at it as journalism, freedom of speech and expression. A right, not a privilege. An art. A hobby. If someone does something stupid with it, it should be treated the same way as if someone did something stupid with another object, like a laser pointer. You point a laser at an airplane, you get in big trouble. Same with drones, you get caught flying near airplanes, you get in deep trouble. But flying responsibly should have nothing to do with exemptions and paying the Government sick amounts of money so you can fly your drone and make $1 somewhere in the process.

Just look at Uber, they are operating in a similar fashion in many cities around the world, are they legal with UberX? I don't know, from an insurance stand point, probably not. But they do call themselves a "technology" company and not a taxi for hire. I see something similar for drones.

What if I flew my drone and some random person seen me flying and said "hey, that's awesome, here's $20 I want you to stay here and fly your drone for 20 minutes so I can watch it". Is that commercial use? What if he just gave me $20 and said nothing? Just because I was flying the drone and I made money does it make it commercial? How about I am flying as a hobby but I catch some amazing footage of a tornado, a crime, a serious accident, an explosion and sell it to a newspaper or publish it online? What if I have ads on my website but my videos are showcasing a HOBBY flight? Is that commercial use?

 

[LuvMyTJ]

(By the way, I can advertise my photo/video service all day long for Cash without having business license and No One would care)

Thats mostly true because in most jurisdictions in the United States, no professional license is required to run or operate a photography business. You are also very unlikely to have something go wrong taking pictures that could injure someone. The IRS and the state you live in will care if you are charging for the service and not giving them their cut.

Long story made short is to go the legal route if you plan the make it part of your regular money making venture. Once the new rules come out we will find out what will be needed to be in business.

 

[regdawg]

Well I'm sort of a newbie...just got into drones about a month ago. I just hope it doesn't get too bad as far as regulations and what not. I love flying my P2 and the last thing I want is not to be able to fly it anywhere because of FAA regulations. Not that it makes a difference but I'm in CA. I fly around my house and at a local park.

 

[Formstone]

While I agree that you could split hairs over the edit rule it would be too expensive to win.

Go the legit route. I am working on my sports license as of now.

As to the faa. I treat all government employees and politicians with the disgust and disdain they deserve. Eg my bike shop and charter business's will not sell to any non military government employees.

 

[DAP-UAV]

Enough Said. Commercial = 333. If this makes no sense to you, find out why it's so and be informed instead of complaining. Just saying.

 

[Bryce]

Ignore that person. If you have driven 61 in a 60 zone before, and are ok with that from a social compact viewpoint... your risks are very, very, very low. The FAA tracking pack an IP address??? ha ha ha... that is funny.

 

[ianwood]

This video is the best summary of the current situation I have seen yet. Anyone with questions about what is/is not allowed should be referred to this.

Many pros actually guard their knowledge regarding the 333 exemption and COA requirements so it's good to see some pros sharing it openly.

 

[sharper4]

Can you put an ad up to take pics / videos for free, if they make a "donation" for the trip? (I know it's totally splitting hairs and doesn't follow the spirit of the rules at all, but I'm just curious. I personally have no intention of doing this but something on page 1 made me think if it wasn't compensation but rather a donation, does it qualify the same).

 

[turbulence]

Can you put an ad up to take pics / videos for free, if they make a "donation" for the trip? (I know it's totally splitting hairs and doesn't follow the spirit of the rules at all, but I'm just curious. I personally have no intention of doing this but something on page 1 made me think if it wasn't compensation but rather a donation, does it qualify the same).

I don't think that will work. The donation probably has to be to a charitable organization.

 

[Bryce]

Can you put an ad up to take pics / videos for free, if they make a "donation" for the trip? (I know it's totally splitting hairs and doesn't follow the spirit of the rules at all, but I'm just curious. I personally have no intention of doing this but something on page 1 made me think if it wasn't compensation but rather a donation, does it qualify the same).

I don't condone it, but if you go 61 in a 60... well.... you know.....

 

[Buzz Covington]

As a commercial drone operator, it gets me riled up that I have jumped through all of the hoops to: 1) Get a commercial Pilot's Licence 2) Bought several thousand dollars worth of drone equipment 3) Registered my drones through the FAA 4) Received a 333 exemption from the FAA 4) And comply with all pertinent local ordinances....Only to have somebody with a new drone just say "Hey! I'll come photograph your place or do a video for you for a hundred bucks." If I saw you trying to take illegal shortcuts to take food off of MY table, you can bet your a$$ I would report you as well.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

As a commercial drone operator, it gets me riled up that I have jumped through all of the hoops to: 1) Get a commercial Pilot's Licence 2) Bought several thousand dollars worth of drone equipment 3) Registered my drones through the FAA 4) Received a 333 exemption from the FAA 4) And comply with all pertinent local ordinances....Only to have somebody with a new drone just say "Hey! I'll come photograph your place or do a video for you for a hundred bucks." If I saw you trying to take illegal shortcuts to take food off of MY table, you can bet your a$$ I would report you as well.

It is a pleasure to welcome you to the Phantom Pilots forum Buzz. I hope that you will take advantage of the benefits that come with membership and that you will be able to use the forum for the exchange of innovative ideas and as a resource for current developments in Phantom quadcopter’s.

Unfortunately this happens in many types of businesses. My wife & I own a Accounting firm that she created 33 years ago. We see 'kitchen table' accountants & tax prepares all the time. We also fix lots of work done by these so called 'professionals'. They undercut, (many times illegally), our legitimate business that has properly trained staff and an office. We pay all our dues and some guy comes along, buys a copy of turbo tax and does his neighborhood taxes (illegally) and maybe puts an ad on craigslist. We have training, overhead, software cost, staff cost, etc. we stay current on the latest changes, they have none of that. People are always looking to save a buck so some will take the risk and use them. The same applies to this, if someone offers a $50 video many folks will pay them over your properly set up and trained offerings. It sure makes it tough on those of us who follow the rules.

 

[480sparky]

As a commercial drone operator, it gets me riled up that I have jumped through all of the hoops to: 1) Get a commercial Pilot's Licence 2) Bought several thousand dollars worth of drone equipment 3) Registered my drones through the FAA 4) Received a 333 exemption from the FAA 4) And comply with all pertinent local ordinances....Only to have somebody with a new drone just say "Hey! I'll come photograph your place or do a video for you for a hundred bucks." If I saw you trying to take illegal shortcuts to take food off of MY table, you can bet your a$$ I would report you as well.

I've spent hundreds of thousands on tools, licensing, CEUs, insurance, performance bonds, vehicles etc. to become an electrician, and some yahoo buys a screwdriver and a pair of strippers at Home Depot and advertises on Craigslist to do dirt-cheap electrical work.

Turning the scofflaws in won't do one damned bit of good. As soon as one gets caught, there's a dozen more filling in for him. They're like the corner drug dealers. It's a losing battle. It's better to learn how to market yourself better, and attract the customers who are willing to spend the money on a quality product. If your target market is the low-price-is-king crowd, you're doing something wrong. You're not losing one freakin' dime from that type hiring who they do.... they will never hire you to begin with.

 

[Bryce]

As a commercial drone operator, it gets me riled up that I have jumped through all of the hoops to: 1) Get a commercial Pilot's Licence 2) Bought several thousand dollars worth of drone equipment 3) Registered my drones through the FAA 4) Received a 333 exemption from the FAA 4) And comply with all pertinent local ordinances....Only to have somebody with a new drone just say "Hey! I'll come photograph your place or do a video for you for a hundred bucks." If I saw you trying to take illegal shortcuts to take food off of MY table, you can bet your a$$ I would report you as well.

this is the only type you'd need worry about... but the chances of him 'seeing' you are less than one in a billion... It's sad about all the work he put into this when he could just "do" it like others do.

An electrician... I understand that... faulty wiring can burn down a house... actually kill people.

 

[ianwood]

You can roll the dice if you like. But no amount of creative accounting in the form of "I'll do it for free and you donate to my other expenses here" will dissuade the FAA from seeing it as commercial use.

And it isn't similar to going 61 in a 60. If you get pulled over while driving, you'd better have a driver's license. Same applies for commercial use and the FAA. You'd better have the right paperwork.