The DJI "Flyaway" Myth - DEBUNKED.
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Re: The DJI "Flyaway" Myth - DEBUNKED.
Well... hard to prove, but I believe the number caused by pilot error is much, much higher. Pilot error meaning either not maintaining their drone (clean those battery contacts!), not doing a proper pre-flight check, not waiting for a solid GPS lock, and/or accidentally switching to a flight mode they had not intended and weren't ready for (Manual, and, to a lesser extent, ATTI). In fact, I would put the number very close to 100%.Paul K said:
Re: The DJI
Your percentage error distribution would be more acceptable for me ,for one sample reason, it is in your ability to prevent fly away case, by doing your homework before flight. My biggest nightmare is to get into a situation when the craft pics-up another signal ,starts to fly certain direction and you can't do anything to bring it back.Wedeliver said:
N017RW
Premium Pilot
I can't speak to 5.8 GHz systems but I have flown 2.4 GHz Spektrum DSM, DSM2, and DSMX; DJI DESST; and Futaba T-FHSS systems with never any problems with the control system 'picking up' another signal.
It would be very difficult... since your TX is bound/paired to your, and only your, Phantom. So your RC is the only one your Phantom should ever "listen" to and obey.
There is, I suppose, the possibility that a stronger signal may overwhelm/swamp your connection... but it's not really another signal taking control so much as the Phantom not being able to see your signal through all the noise of the other one.
There is, I suppose, the possibility that a stronger signal may overwhelm/swamp your connection... but it's not really another signal taking control so much as the Phantom not being able to see your signal through all the noise of the other one.
I am planing to use FR SKY Taranis with my P2/GoPro; hope this will minimize the FAP :lol: (fly away phobia)N017RW said:
ianwood
Taco Wrangler
I see a couple categories for fly aways:
Platform induced flyaways
1. Mechanical: one corner is unable to produce adequate lift due to prop damage, motor friction, ESC issue, etc.
2. Sensors: the IMU and/or compass produce erroneous data due to internal defect.
User induced flyaways
1. Sensors: the IMU or compass produce erroneous data due to improper calibration/initialization or exposure to interference.
2. Commanded flyaway: the user still has control but has become disoriented, has inadvertently changed modes and/or is making mistakes due to panic. This is technically not a flyaway though the victim will claim it is.
I think there is also a potential RF issue with the P1 whereby it can get "stuck" due to interference. I am not familiar with it enough to know. The P2 does not have this issue.
Note, I do not think the GPS is responsible for flyaways as has been oft claimed. While GPS jumps can cause the Phantom to wander, it will rely more on IMU than GPS in low HDOP situations and will act like it is in ATTI mode. GPS dropouts have the same impact.
Platform induced flyaways
1. Mechanical: one corner is unable to produce adequate lift due to prop damage, motor friction, ESC issue, etc.
2. Sensors: the IMU and/or compass produce erroneous data due to internal defect.
User induced flyaways
1. Sensors: the IMU or compass produce erroneous data due to improper calibration/initialization or exposure to interference.
2. Commanded flyaway: the user still has control but has become disoriented, has inadvertently changed modes and/or is making mistakes due to panic. This is technically not a flyaway though the victim will claim it is.
I think there is also a potential RF issue with the P1 whereby it can get "stuck" due to interference. I am not familiar with it enough to know. The P2 does not have this issue.
Note, I do not think the GPS is responsible for flyaways as has been oft claimed. While GPS jumps can cause the Phantom to wander, it will rely more on IMU than GPS in low HDOP situations and will act like it is in ATTI mode. GPS dropouts have the same impact.
As an example of wifi and how it might be affected by other signals, in my work room I am unable to get a solid connection to the video on Phantom 2 vision quadcopters. Now Phantom 2 Vision Plus has a stronger signal and I can get a good enough connection that I can operate the plus camera in my work room, but not the regular vision. I think it is my roku that is sending the strongest wifi so I think I should turn it off and see if it helps. I like being able to test everything in my workroom, but it there is a problem like this I just step outside and then I can attach to the vision network and open and control the camera.
Re: The DJI "Flyaway" Myth - DEBUNKED.
ESC issue, I'll grant you. But I still see any issues from prop damage as "user-induced" issues. The pilot either did not perform an adequate pre-flight check to identify prop damage, got into a situation where prop damage occurred in flight, or knew there was prop damage and the pilot flew anyway.
Could almost say the same thing about motor friction... user could've not performed adequate maintenance or did not do an adequate enough pre-flight check. Though there is the rare instance where issues occur in flight.
ianwood said:
ESC issue, I'll grant you. But I still see any issues from prop damage as "user-induced" issues. The pilot either did not perform an adequate pre-flight check to identify prop damage, got into a situation where prop damage occurred in flight, or knew there was prop damage and the pilot flew anyway.
Could almost say the same thing about motor friction... user could've not performed adequate maintenance or did not do an adequate enough pre-flight check. Though there is the rare instance where issues occur in flight.
dronecamps said:
Do not waste twenty minutes of your life watching this.
Note: at 3:18 says "we need to stop saying 'flyaway'"
then goes on to use the term 'flyaway' and at 12:33 there's a title screen, "Flyaways With Phantoms"
Also, i take issue with the advice at 10:10 : "don't fly Phantom batteries past 30%". this is nonsense.
even the manufacturers suggest completing draining the batteries at regular intervals.
Recites a litany of things that can go wrong to think about each time before you fly
then ends with a "have fun!"
Two thumbs down
cruz_ctrl said:dronecamps said:
Do not waste twenty minutes of your life watching this.
Note: at 3:18 says "we need to stop saying 'flyaway'"
then goes on to use the term 'flyaway' and at 12:33 there's a title screen, "Flyaways With Phantoms"
Also, i take issue with the advice at 10:10 : "don't fly Phantom batteries past 30%". this is nonsense.
even the manufacturers suggest completing draining the batteries at regular intervals.
Recites a litany of things that can go wrong to think about each time before you fly
then ends with a "have fun!"
Two thumbs down
Darn I was trying not to post so much then I saw your post and thought I should add my 2 cents.
The battery part was the only thing I really thought he got right. Although he should have said something about oxidation, but I have been told by folks who work in the field that what he said is right and what DJI recommends is wrong. I personally have no way of know which is the best, other then I have 2 year old lipo batteries that hold a power and charge up just like when they were new. I recharge after use without worrying to much about how long I used the battery.
I think that started when I got my son a Razor electric scooter and that was the rule, no matter how long or short the use was, recharge after use everytime. In 10 or so years we have only replaced those batteries once and we were riding it this summer.
I might just be lucky, which I would not find to be my usual thing! Just my 2 cents..
LiPos last longer if you do not drain them completely (below about 10%).
DJI recommends you drain the battery completely every... however many normal cycles (can't remember how many at the moment) because it is, unfortunately the only way to recalibrate the level meter, which becomes more and more inaccurate the longer you fly.
So... what DJI recommends is, technically, "wrong" as far as battery life goes, but "right" as far as keeping your Phantom running properly.
DJI recommends you drain the battery completely every... however many normal cycles (can't remember how many at the moment) because it is, unfortunately the only way to recalibrate the level meter, which becomes more and more inaccurate the longer you fly.
So... what DJI recommends is, technically, "wrong" as far as battery life goes, but "right" as far as keeping your Phantom running properly.
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dronecamps said:
Naza flyaways happened alot with the orignal Phantom v1. not 1.1.1 not, 2 but the original Phantom 1. The flyaways never really involved a crash until the batteries ran out or the Phantom hit something in its horizontal path. The symptom is pilot loses complete control of the craft no matter where they are, open field, over water, in the city, in the country, and the craft flies horizontal with the ground, until it either runs out of batteries or it hits something---now this is a fact. Do some research of old forums from 2 years ago before you open up a camp to teach drones to newbs. just a thought.
thongbong said:
If this be true Dji has libility i think to correct the issue or? maybe buy up all the old units. i really don't know what i am talking about, but ät least here in the US used items still matter and car companies are required to fix recalls on vehicles that have been resold. it seems that dji is claiming no warranties exist except to the original buyer and that buyer had to buy it through a particular channel to receive coverage. i own a small retail store and i want to resell dji products witha manufactures warranty. i also own a phantom v1.1 and a v1.2 and 3 v1.1.1. I need to find an attorney that knows the law about this stuff. sorry to go off subject but perhaps it isright on subject.. flyaways.. would this mean that there are naza issues with the "M" used in the earlier models.
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Wedeliver said:
Unfortunately DJI has never owned up to the issue. There have been too many flyaways to account for on the original P1. For the pilots who were able to retrieve their videos, the same symptoms show up time after time, and the account is the same. If you do some googling, you'll find a few thousand experienced pilots who had a flyaway on the original P1, me included. The Phantom simply kept on flying until it was out of site. It never crashed, meaning it kept its longitudinal bearing until it ran out of batteries or hit something in its way.
A false flyaway happens when the Phantom crashes to the ground with a full battery, so remember a true flyaway keeps the longitudinal bearing until it runs out of juice or hits something.
I've had 4 Phantoms also, the original P1 (the very 1st model) is what you need to be concerned about. On P2 non vision the flyaways are nearly non existent, those that do report it usually have a video showing a quick drop in pitch and it hitting the ground, this is not a flyaway. Be weary of the P2V as there seems to be a handful of reports and videos that look like true flyaways though.
If you do get a lawyer to force DJI to give original P1 owners a refund, I'll sign on too.
ianwood
Taco Wrangler
Wedeliver said:
Cars are a regulated industry with minimum safety and emissions standards which the bulk of recalls fall under. There is no drone equivalent. That even the warranty period is unclear with DJI should tell you just how much they give a ****.
ianwood said:
I was just thinking of that as an example. Are there examples of other things, like walmart TVs, or computers?? I guess as I think about it that I just have wishful thinking. Well, there is always what happened with Packard Bell. The lack of attention to detail killed the company. They could have just done a little better, like dell, gateway, compaq and hp, but because the machines had some many real issues it put the company out of business.
Can you think of any examples where a products ability to function is warranted to whoever has it? and thank you for taking the time to answer me.
thongbong said:Wedeliver said:
Unfortunately DJI has never owned up to the issue. There have been too many flyaways to account for on the original P1. For the pilots who were able to retrieve their videos, the same symptoms show up time after time, and the account is the same. If you do some googling, you'll find a few thousand experienced pilots who had a flyaway on the original P1, me included. The Phantom simply kept on flying until it was out of site. It never crashed, meaning it kept its longitudinal bearing until it ran out of batteries or hit something in its way.
A false flyaway happens when the Phantom crashes to the ground with a full battery, so remember a true flyaway keeps the longitudinal bearing until it runs out of juice or hits something.
I've had 4 Phantoms also, the original P1 (the very 1st model) is what you need to be concerned about. On P2 non vision the flyaways are nearly non existent, those that do report it usually have a video showing a quick drop in pitch and it hitting the ground, this is not a flyaway. Be weary of the P2V as there seems to be a handful of reports and videos that look like true flyaways though.
If you do get a lawyer to force DJI to give original P1 owners a refund, I'll sign on too.
What do people think was the cause of these flyaways, the Naza M or firmware or all the above?
Do you think the current firmware address's this problem? (I said problem not issue, so there DJI) Or might this be why they are putting some distance between themselves and the P1. Even though it looks like the FC40 is still being produced, in a high volume, I think they P1 in any version number has been put to bed. Is that correct? There is that Droneguy attorney who setup the website to lobby the FAA, he might be able to help with this. I will pm him and see what his reply is.
Thank you for all the effort in the above post, that is what makes this forum such a great resource.
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