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So many Anti Jello devices to buy? What really works

Discussion in 'Phantom 1 Help' started by xstatic, Jul 16, 2013.

  1. xstatic

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    As the topic says, what really works? I see all these rubber mounted plates, metal wire fixes (which may be the best, but it would lower the camera too much to fit in the case), sorbithane, and moonge, which did not do much for me! I don't belive it came from the moon, that is why it didn't work I guess!

    Who fixed their Jello, and tell us your flavor? ( mmm Jello, say like Bill Cosby)
     
  2. Driffill

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    Call me crazy if you want to, but I have a theory and I didn't know exactly where to put it, but here looks like a good spot :)

    I don't think it is possible to remove jello 100%

    Now before I get to shot down by everyone, hear me out. I'm not saying its impossible to get an entire video without jello, or that particular mods will/won't reduce jello. But even with the most evenly balanced blades/motors and the "best" isolation mount, it is still possible for the gopro camera to resonate at a frequency that will produce jello!

    Balanced blades and motors will prevent the jello that occurs due to the prop or motor being unbalanced, but the design of the phantom makes it susceptible to vibration. Firstly, because its not fixed to anything, I.E. because its in the air flying/hovering there is nothing to prevent vibration from starting if there's is some form of unbalance. Secondly, it fairly lightweight, meaning it take less "unbalanced force" to cause a movement. And third . . .

    I'm going back to when I was making/designing my own wind generators, when looking at the design for my prop, there was one fundamental rule, you cannot use a 2-blade fan (prop), doing so would produce major vibrations thru the tower supporting the generator. This was due to the tower making the air flow uneven between the two blades when ever the prop was totally vertical. How does this relate to the phantom . . .

    Well as the prop spins over the arm of the phantom, it will cause a higher pressure under the blade (for a split second), making the blade "uneven". As the four blades can spin at different speeds, it will produce so many "split-second" high pressure/unbalanced rotations that it will transfer into high frequency vibrations, and within that range of vibration frequency, would be the frequency that produces "jello" in the gopro camera!

    I have a gimbal with the four "ear-plug" type jello isolation mount, I find I had less jello with my gopro attached using the stock mount, than with the gimbal! I'm not saying I didn't have jello in the stock mount video, but with the gimbal, I see more. Now I'm sure I could try however many different styles, but I dare say, each will have its own resonation frequency, that when reached, will produce jello.

    . . . And yes, there will be many videos that are jello free, and I will pay credit to the devices and methods used to reduce jello, but I don't think we will ever be 100% jello free (without any major design change to the phantom)

    Having said all that, I'll be happy to try anything people can suggest, because like everyone else, I'd like to have jello free videos myself :)
     
  3. martcerv

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    Dji zenmuse is probably the best cure, I dont have one yet but all footage I have seen seems to have cured the jello with that setup.

    Without a gimbal its a combination of factors, I have used the VGE anti jello mount and am now using another cant remember the name but I got it from helipal and they only stock one. Both worked but I did mod them a bit, the vge I found way too soft and caused bad camera motion at speed or in wind. The new one is a little stiffer but I still used a bit of foam and rubber bands to get the results I wanted.

    Prop balancing is critical and I have got good results with stock props and some others after balancing on the dubro balancer.

    For shooting in bright light using a nd filter on the gopro is a big help, I use the snake river prototyping adapters. I have one for the housing and naked camera using different level nd depending on light. Works great and also helps protect the lens plus you can thread any filters on it as they come with standard filter threads.

    Here are a couple of my videos the first is a full flight and the other with some heavier editing. I think I have pretty much overcome the jello issue but will still get a gimbal for the added stability it gives not only jello relief.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv0MQWlHulk[/youtube]

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZsQRMHwLq0[/youtube]
     
  4. xstatic

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    The wire method looks the way to go!


    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8g1Blg5ugv ... re=related

    It made a difference for this copter!
    Drifill that might be the solution

    Martcerv I can't view the video on my Ipad, so tomorrow I will check it out on my pc and let you know my impressions!
    I don't do impressions though, only Bill cosby ( jello!) I guess that dates me!
    Thanks guys for your responses!
     
  5. Roadkilt

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  6. xstatic

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    I think the wire mount looks a bit more stable. The only real test though is to do it in as windy a situation as the ball mount stabilizer. The flag wasn't flapping nearly as much in the wire video. I do think the wire will win out though. We need a video from you on building the wire mount. Yours looked nicely compressed and not too much of a space hog.
     
  7. Gizmo3000

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    The tough part about all these video comparisons is that they're not really done in a controlled environment.
    for instance in one of the above video's, the quad was clearly subjected to more choppy wind conditions than in the later video using the wire isolator.

    Personally, with brushless gimbal prices now in the affordable range, I would highly recommend looking at one of those, as they come with vibration isolation balls (of the larger variety that absorb more vibrations), but they also stabilize the camera, which will also remove rolling shutter effects, (plus eliminate the warping you see with post-stabilized video)

    the brushless gimbals might seem like a lot to jump into, but that's what most people get into once they grow weary of non-stabailized video, so might as well put your money into one of those now than to buy a anti-vib wire or rubber isolation that you'll eventually toss in the parts bin.
     
  8. Roadkilt

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    I agree that the gimbal is the way to go, but I also think you should get some flying time in before investing another few hundred on a gimbal that bad flying wont make for better video. The examples I used in the video were the best I had to make the comparison. being of a similar subject I have plenty more. In each case the wire mount came ahead, sometimes slightly, sometimes dramatically. The rubber composition is too soft to prevent the vibration. It works better loaded with the gimbal weight. Even after balancing the props, the stock DjI gopro mount is hard to avoid jello, almost anything helps.
     
  9. martcerv

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    Roadkilt, I see your pushing the wire method quite hard, not sure if your selling it or not but its bordering on spam with sticking your test video in about 11 threads and many times completely off topic. :lol:

    Did you watch my videos above especially the first one showing the full flight? I dont see any jello or camera shake using my modified rubber isolation mount in 2.7k30 and a ND filter. This shows takeoff to landing so not selecting just the best shots it shows how it performs all the time. I agree that all the ones available are too soft but can easily be modified to work well at reducing both jello and camera shake and the one that comes with the DJI gimbal looks to be a great solution with the firmer balls.

    Here are a couple more examples of a modified carbon/rubber mount with some foam and rubber bands in extreme conditions and a ND filter. These are with softer larger props so they arent quite as smooth as the carbons used in the first video I posted earlier but results are still pretty decent.

    This one flying flat out most of the time in a light breeze, a little shaky but not too bad considering how I was pushing the little phantom. The start has a bit of jello being low and slow with these props causes quite a bit of prop wash and a little unstable in flight. It smooths out at speed wen getting clear air even low down the turbulence off the ground isnt as big an issue.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOopiBu3CCE[/youtube]

    Here is one in very strong winds, the shake is what the phantom is doing in strong gusty winds pretty much no jello just a rouh old ride for the phantom and a little sketchy with wind swirling and gusting pretty hard.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z69MhlX1AE[/youtube]

    Id like to see example video in those types of flights showing the full flights with the wire method shot in 30p. The gimbal would be a huge help in the strong wind and is the only option if you want useable video in medium to strong winds flying a phantom. I am not sure about how a gimbal will handle fast flying but definitely will be avoiding hitting the ground with a gimbal onboard. :lol:
     
  10. Roadkilt

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    Yeah sorry about going crazy with the overly enthusiastic posting of my video. guilty. No I don't sell wire mounts, and I think it is only slightly better than no mount. But I was disappointed by the rubber balls, they really were awful in other video I shot, worse than no mount. However, I have ordered a Zenmuse so I'll be leaving the world of simple gopros soon.