Simplest Solution for FPV Glasses/Goggle Flying?

KenKopter said:
.....
Do folks really get to the level where they can fly the quadcopter well AND manage the app functions (assuming they can see the phone screen well enough on a sunny day) or is a 2-person operation fairly common? .....

You will probably be pleasantly surprised how easy it is to fly the P2V. The beauty of the GPS mode is that if you take your fingers off the sticks the machine will just hold station in the air. This means you have all the time you need (subject to available power) to make any changes on the app (start/stop video, take a snap, tweak camera settings, check your orientation using the radar etc etc). Just a guess but I think that two person operation when one person pilots the P2V and the other does the photography is rare.
 
I'd agree. If you are shooting stills then there's plenty of time to tweak any camera settings in between shots. If it's critical to catch a moving target you can shoot a burst.

If you're shooting video then once you've made any settings changes then it's just a question of hitting record and then flying - the rest is done in the edit. The stock Vision doesn't really lend itself to doing smooth gimbal tilting on the fly in any event. Some people have done a little software hack to allow you to use a spare finger to operate a lever that you add to the rear of the transmitter which controls tilt. That might prove beneficial, although it's not an "approved" mod - but there doesn't appear to be any concerns over doing it that I've seen reported by those who've done it.

It's probably rare to find two-person operation in anything outside the pro multirotors designed to lift high-end DSLRs or broadcast-quality video units. You'll then come across dual control as the gimbals on those are full three-axis with almost full freedom of movement. Often the pilot will fly visually, or perhaps by reference to a dedicated FPV camera mounted on the airframe, and the camera operator will usually use video monitors so that the director/DP can see what's happening in the shots.

But now I digress. ;)
 
Paul, I can see what you're saying for photos. But I had visions of dramatic videos swooping along the curve of a beach, gradually coming down in altitude (sort of a zoom-in effect) and continuing along in that manner. With our sun here in Anguilla, it's very hard to see the phone's screen, which is small in any event.

So if one person focused on taking the optimal route while FPV-goggle-flyig, communicating to the other that "I'll start to head down towards that beach bar, so get ready to tilt the camera up a little as you see me come down towards it," THAT person worries purely about working the camera tilt (and could be in a shaded spot, looking at the larger Kindle screen).

Also, the pilot would never need to even think about orientation. S/he'd merely fly it according to landmarks, like in real life.

It seems like most people can do all that "solo." But, once you commit to video goggles (which have the added extra fun of total immersion :) ), it does seem that you really do need a 2nd person to work the camera and other app functions. Unless there's something (else!) that I don't know, you couldn't do that while wearing the goggles?

However, Pull_up, if the tilt-from-app functionality is not smooth, that would be a problem -- another fly in the ointment?

I won't tell my daughter about the pro configuration that you explained, though. She's gotten into surfing in a big way and has seen the Hawaiian vids. She's just just looking for an excuse to go around the Caribbean and surf (and I don't mean the Web!). ;-)

All the best,
Ken
 
What a fantastic thread!!
Thanks goes out to Pull_up, but also to the originator of this thread who had the balls to ask the questions that many of us (at least me!) have wanted answered.

KenKopter, I have really enjoyed the enthusiasm that you have shown with your research and have been shadowing some of the sites you have listed.
So far, I am thinking the iTV Goggles might be the best bet, unless I wait to see the release price for the Fatshark Dominator 2.
The Ziess goggles are outrageously expensive and outside what I would speed on some FPV goggles.
I have looked at cheaper goggles and using a HDMI to AV adapter or similar interface, but ultimately I want to keep the tethered cables down to the most basic that I can.
At the moment I use the Samsung Galaxy Note 2 as my display and will use the HDMI output from this (which will allow me to plug and play with larger screens for group displays (emergency managers at an incident).

Keep up the good work and let me know how the project works.
Thanks
Todd
 
Thank you Ken. I had tried to download on a iPad Mini and no App. Have done now to my iPad.
Have bout one of the made to order metal cases, had to cut some out to fit P2V, so much for 'fit' !
Think I will takeout all shaped foam as will not take P2V with guards and other stuff I carry....
Need guards as I do close up of structures.
Happy flying
Sunny
 
Thanks very much, Todd (jinglesnz), for those kind words. A wise man once told me, "Don't be afraid to ask the stupid questions. You learn much faster that way." And, um...

Don't ask about the copter blade cuts on my left foot and right hand. ;-) It does help to read the manual (as in "don't touch whirling blades, but it was out of control on the ground in one of earliest landings, chopping against all sorts of stuff and my daughter couldn't turn it off -- as in "Don't PANIC!"). ;-)

Still, the manual only takes you a certain part of the way, and then there is the real world. Here's another "stupid newbie" tip (this one not in the manual)...

If you're having trouble seeing the phone well, you may have inverted the installation of its holder. That limits the angles at which you can view the phone.

I thought about that over and over again until I thought, "DJI has engineered this copter to perfection. How could they make such a basic oversight? WE must have it wrong."

So I took out the screwdriver, reversed the holder 180 degrees and can now see the phone much better. Nori and I took it out yesterday to the backyard and...

Wow! It's clear enough now to see (there's now more room to angle the phone).

What a difference. Flying through the phone is so much easier.

You simply get high enough to see some landmarks and you stop looking at the copter, simply fly by phone. We got some great vids of the shoreline of Anguilla, and of our home with St. Martin in the distance, all from a unique perspective.

You can fly along the shore and everything. And then...

Bring it home.

The learning curve should be faster now. :)

I still feel that a second person working the app on a large screen tablet would be a plus, but at least we can now see the phone much better, angling it for less glare, and can "fly by phone" without fear of losing this magnificent device. :)

--

Todd, I came to the same conclusion (re which glasses). I'll skip all the details of each possible model (I tend to go too long, sorry about that).

I was just about to purchase the ITVgoggles but got stuck since PayPal does not include Anguilla as a "ship to" address. You'd think that they'd have their own merchant account and a more professional payment processing system. Little things like this (and their meagre social engagement) worry me.

So I promise -- I will report back on these glasses.

--

Todd, we'll use the Kindle, but the Samsung Galaxy Note 2, with its larger screen, should serve well, too, if you choose to have a second person working the app.

--

BTW, I wrote ITVgoggles with questions (excellent replies, always a good sign). Here were the key replies...

1) The WideView 3Dxi is the right model for FPV. If you get into them for movies, this model does not accept a micro card, which is kind of a loss compared to the WideView 3D (which cannot be used for FPV).

Still, you can also use the 3Dxi to watch Netflix, etc. But, on a plane, you've have to connect it to your tablet, clunkier than if you could just pop a loaded 32GB card into the glasses (as other options offer).

If you REALLY want both, WideView XL does both, but it's a lower resolution -- they said that it's "considered an entry level unit," probably a euphemism for "not great." ;-)

Tradeoffs, but it's the 3Dxi model for FPV.


2) It DOES come with a light shield, so ambient light should not be an issue. (Also, I've since found other pilots using them and liking them.)


3) They come with 1 year limited manufacture warranty, which covers any manufacture defects only. Return with 7 days.


4) If you don't like them, you can return them within 7 days, with a 15% restocking fee.


5) Finally, it's NOT a direct-no-adapter micro-HDMI to HDMI connection. The resolution is 854x480 (in the small print), so an adapter needs to convert your devices output to what it displays.

--

NOTE: Vusix is same res, Sony is 1280x720.

The discovery that the glasses were not full 1080 almost made me go with the Sony, but the video quality is excellent, so this will be more than enough. Also, I just can't see the Sony device being comfortable, let alone I'd be looking pretty weird with those on. ;-)

Just FYI, these ended up being the top 2 competitors...

http://store.sony.com/WFS/SNYUS/en_US/- ... nal-Viewer

http://www.vuzix.com/consumer/products_wrap_1200dx/

--

The ITVgoggles come with connectors -- see "Compatibility" on this page...

http://itvgoggles.com/details.asp?productID=64

As you see, there IS one for Lightning (a question in the other thread), but you have to buy that one from them, it seems.

In my case (Kindle, with its micro-HDMI output), I need to purchase this (at least, I hope I've got this right!), an adapter that takes me from micro-HDMI to VGA...

http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Act ... 008O7SBOS/

(I have one final question in to them, to make sure the VGA end is female.)

Their (included) VGA connector takes me the rest of the way, to the phone.

Depending on what device you have, you may need to buy the "front half" (device to connector).

While it's not the slick HDMI to HDMI connection that I was hoping for (I missed that their resolution is not 1080 -- all the companies keep that in the small print), the VGA connection does add a little bulk. But it still looks like the easiest setup, and the lightest glasses that I found.

--

Sunny, glad this was helpful to you.

I'm not sure what you mean by ("made to order metal cases") and the rest of it, but it sounds like YOU do, and that's what counts. :)

--

OK, 'nuff. I'll be placing the order for the ITVgoggles and will order the cable once I know for sure that it's female VGA.

And then... I promise to report back. The FVP with the phone was pretty good. The goggles should be something else. :)

All the best,
Ken

P.S. Reminder: this discussion relates purely to the Phantom 2 Vision. We ruled out Fatshark and other goggles made specifically for FPV because they transmit on 5.8GHz which interferes with the Vision's transmission (since it uses 5.8).
 
I have been trying myself to find an easy, plug and play you're FPV Goggle experience with my PV, and now a second P2 without gimbal which I bought soley for FPV / Goggles.

I went with the SkyZone goggles from Fox Tech FPV, which I found bundled with a 5.8 32ch transmitter, and a Sony mini HD camera, with the total cost being $570.

I spent last night wiring it all up, then soldering, only to find out the camera broke in transit, and the lens inside is cracked.

The cracked lens is obviously causing quality issues, but I was very disappointed with what I could see, especially compared to the Vision's much higher quality FPV.

The SkyZone goggles however do have an AV in port, which is actually the same four terminal pin that plugs into the Visions camera, to RCA on the other end.

While I look around for a new camera for the P2, I'm going to try mirroring my Samsung Note 3's screen to RCA cords through the micro usb, and video in to the SkyZone goggles using the P2V camera. Ultimately if I can video into the goggles using the stock vision camera I'll return the P2.

I also have a second phone, Droid Bionic which actually does have an HDMI output, I'd still have to use RCA for work video in, with that set up have a better quality picture as opposed to the micro USB?
 
Phew, after a bit of back-and-forth with ITVgoggles, I'm finally ready to place my order with them. However, they only take orders through PayPal and Paypal does not include Anguilla in its country drop-down menu! It's hard to understand why a company of this size doesn't have their own merchant account and just clear directly. They must lose a lot of orders to folks who don't have PayPal.

NOTE: This is specifically for PFV-flying with the Phantom 2 VISION. As Pull_Up explained earlier, the FPV-specialized goggle companies sell excellent products but the frequency they use conflicts with what the Vision uses. Fatshark has announced that they will have a pair of glasses coming out in April that will work with Vision...

http://fatshark.com/product/1757.html

Similar resolution (800x600 for FS vs 854x480 for ITVg) and a neat-sounding "lost model recovery" ability. Also, it appears that these will accept HDMI input directly (eliminating the need for an external adapter connection). Pretty clunky-looking, through (hopefully, they adapter is in the unit and they DO accept HDMI directly).

Anyway, since my needs are simple and the "sunglasses-look" is fairly common on our beaches, I'll stick with ITVgoggles. ;-)

One point, when I researched micro-HDMI to VGA adapters at Amazon, almost all end in female VGA connections, like this...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0068J ... UTF8&psc=1

It's lucky that I asked them which one I need, because it turns out that you need the male connector, like this, which are far less common (at least on Amazon)...

http://www.amazon.com/1080p-Input-Outpu ... 00APJL1XG/

That one has terrible reviews, but this next one would seem to get the job done. I trust that's a male VGA connector?...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0091C ... ZUO6BD70OD

This is NOT easy if you're not a technophile. Might be easier to just wait for the Fatshark unit. Anyway, I'll check with their sales department and make sure the above unit with good reviews will get the job done.

All the best,
Ken
 
First result! :) Re: Simplest Solution for FPV Glasses

Ordering is turning out to be a real pain. First, there was the issue of payment from Anguilla and Paypal. Once we ironed that out (we'll wire them the funds), Support from itvGoogles told me they had the connector needed for Kindle.

When I pushed to make sure that they knew Kindles goes micro-HDMI to full HDMI (I had mentioned it before), they said "oops, we only have the mini-HDMI connector." There has also been confusion over what male or female VGA from the micro-HDMI (from Kindle) actually means. doh.

So I sent them photos from Amazon to be sure. It has not been easy. Anyway, we're all set.

Meanwhile, my daughter and I have shot our first vid using the Phantom 2 Vision and an iPhone...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

I've no doubt that we'll do better with a co-pilot running the tablet, while a pilot focuses purely on the FPV-through-glasses, communicating as needed with co-pilot runs the camera tilt, watches distance and altitude, etc. It's alarming to lose connection due to distance, hard to see detail such as finding a single surfer in the water, etc, on the small phone screen.

So I'm still really looking forward to trying this will the goggles. Meanwhile, though, I'm super-impressed with what can be done with our beginner-skill-level.

This is going to be a lot of fun! And, I hope, bring some attention to our little-known island. :)

I''ll be adding a full review when I get the goggles.

All the best,
Ken
 
Beautiful part of the world. If you want to add to your money pit and smooth out the footage you could jump on the gimbal bandwagon?! I posted some first results from mine yesterday on the Rotorpixel thread and in the Videos section. With your light and scenery I suspect it would look even better than my UK spring morning sunshine did!

Keep us posted about how the goggles work out for you.
 
Thanks very much, szobell. My daughter uploaded a second one. It has received a blizzard of shares (almost 300, her most-shared FB post ever)...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=79 ... eam_ref=10

The Facebook algo has also sent it to over 40,000 people, another record (way ahead of any other post).

It's our most famous beach (called East Shoal Bay). We're getting better at various types of manoevers, but we are generally in tradewinds that can toss it around a little. You can edit around problem spots, of course, but Pull_Up's post (just above) sounds like it would cut this down considerably.

Pull_Up, I found a couple of relevant posts from you on this topic elsewhere, including this one...

viewtopic.php?p=89980#p89980

This comment struck me..

I have bought and fitted the Rotorpixel gimbal and it's gone from a quality of video that I was personally happy with to a quality of video that I am personally ecstatic with (see here for some footage using the gimbal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1vJNmyYcTE

I checked that video out and it is AMAZINGLY smooth. I hate to get off-topic on my own thread, but would this help us in windy conditions, too? Also, I noted elsewhere in your post that you added this to your P2V. I had assumed the P2V was pretty much of a "closed box - not to be altered." If not,

Could I ask you to post URLs that explain what you bought (and where) and how you adapted it to the P2V? I've seen your comments that you are not a DIY geek, either, so it can't be that hard to do?

We're really excited about the potential of these videos to widen awareness of our little island, which by the way Pull_Up, is British (well, a British OT technically). We're practically neighbors! ;-) AND this is really fun. So it's worth the effort if this will improve the smoothness of the videos.

As these become more commonplace, people will expect it, in any event.

Thanks very much for that, Pull_Up. As you noted, we're happy with the quality, but "ecstatic" is good, too! :)

All the best,
Ken

P.S. Pull_up, you had earlier recommended these as a possible choice...

http://fatshark.com/product/1757.html

I worried about when they would actually get delivered, so continued on my way toward the ITVgoggle. The experience has been such a pain, though, wasted so much time, that they are now in PRE-RELEASE...

http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php ... eo-glasses

116 are "in stock" (not sure how that can be when it's in PRE-release) at...

http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index. ... ts_id=2546

It looks, though, like battery is NOT included (nor do they show which battery to buy). And that raises the need for a recharger.

And it looks like the input is mini-HDMI, so I'll need a micro(from Kindle)-to-Mini HDMI cable.

What can't anything be smooth? :)

And now I'm back to being not sure which way to go. If these are coming in a couple of weeks, it may be the way to go, given that FPV is what Fatshark does (the other's main purpose is TV) and that there does not seem to be the need for a clunky adapter between the Kindle (or phone) and the goggles.

I've sent a note to the retailer about which battery to buy and asking about cable and adapter. Opinions on which way to go?
 
No one told me price was an issue to choose the best possible FPV goggles for our P2V's.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Hello Ken,

Glad to see an outpost of the former empire looking so nice. ;)

Right, I'm not into DIY at all, hence why I pre-ordered a Rotorpixel gimbal.

See: http://www.rotorpixel.com
Read: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6508 237 pages if you want to wade through the lot (not to be recommended)
Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1njtavc0Yo Plug and play, one small screwdriver required, 2 cables to plug in, 15 minutes to install. It's so easy I didn't bother filming the whole thing, just a couple of possibly tricky bits.

A 2-axis gimbal will definitely help with wind, and you can keep the aircraft in GPS mode all the time for those sat in one place panoramic sweeps, rather than switching to atti mode to get a level horizon but drifting downwind. It will cut down on your flight time (there's more weight to carry) and it might reduce your wifi range a little due to the gimbal motor close to one wifi antenna. But I don't think you're looking to do hard core long distance FPV flying and max range sorties so it probably won't matter. I haven't had flyable weather since I made that film (and a daughter who fractured her ankle) so I've not done any proper endurance and range testing - although during the flight I filmed I didn't have a single glitch on the wifi so that bodes well.

Downside is it's a pre-order, currently 4-8 week lead time. There is another option with a shorter lead time from http://www.dronexpert.nl (again there's a thread dedicated to that one). It's also plug and play but a completely different design. It's more expensive. That's it right now for "plug and play", no-solder, no-working it out options, but there are cheaper gimbals out there if you are, or know someone who is, an electronics guy.

As to opinions on which way you should go goggles-wise I have none, as I've never strapped a pair on so I have nothing to add to your experience - I'm waiting for you to tell us the way to go! I suppose one thing to say for the fatsharks is if you decide to move to another quad/camera platform then you will be able to receive traditional 5.8 FPV transmissions on those, whereas the TV type ones won't be any use in that situation...
 
Decisions, decisions... when I have to make them, I tend do what I do best - something else. Double the trouble when I now have TWO decision to make, as I do now (gimbal and goggles).

Thanks, Pull_Up! ;-)

--

To cavaleiro01 - you recommended Cinemizer on the first page of this thread as well. Pull_Up had recommended them, too, since they're HDMI-in, which is what I need.

However, I summarized all the options that I knew of at the time (Pull_Up added the Fatshark DominatorHD as a strong option after that) here...

viewtopic.php?p=73248#p73248

The Amazon review (only 4, unfortunately) were mixed...

http://www.amazon.com/Cinemizer-multime ... 0091OI530/

The best one raved about it. When I checked his other reviews, he ONLY gives 1-star or 5-stars. Funny thing -- he reviews mostly electronics or condoms (5* for 1 brand, 1* for the other). Interesting mix. Anyway, I digress...

The problem with having only 4 reviews is that you don't get reach "wisdom of crowd" confidence. But if you google "zeiss cinemizer review," you'll find more mixed reviews at pcmag, cnet, etc.

Doesn't sound like they are worth the money.

--

Regarding the Fatshark DominatorHD, which is now taking pre-orders (see my post above), I posed some questions to the retailer mentioned. I got prompt replies...

- the "116 in stock" was the number of pre-orders that the retailer had.

- they will not be available until at least late April. Those words ("at least") sound ominous.

- the battery required (it's NOT included), if anyone is interested is a "2s lipo battery"...

http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index. ... cts_id=386

- regarding recharger, he added that "you'll use whatever charger you use for lipo batteries for this battery as well."

Problem is, I don't have one of those. I don't see that they sell them, either. I've asked if they somehow are recharged while in the goggles or if an external recharger is needed (just what the world needs, yet another recharger ;-) )

- and finally, it's a MINI-HDMI input. My Kindle is a MICRO. A micro-to-mini-HDMI cable is a tough beast to find. I finally wondered if the difference was just "marketing terminology." It's not. If you're as dumb as I am about this stuff, here's the difference...

http://usbandfirewirecables.blogspot.co ... micro.html

The only one that I was able to finally find (in case anyone needs the same)...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00594 ... PDKIKX0DER

--

Once I've got the recharger lined up, I'll probably go with Fatshark. FPV is what they do and I've not been impressed in dealing with iTVgoggles.

They'll come when they come. Gotta put this one to bed, spent too much time researching this. Hopefully, this thread will be useful once I post the review.

All the best,
Ken

P.S. Pull_Up, thanks very much for the Rotorpixel info...

http://www.rotorpixel.com

The Youtube vid reassures me that even I can do it.

--

I assume that it gets its power from the drone, doesn't need its own battery? If I have to buy another battery and recharger....

Anyway, the whole thing sounds fantastic.

But - naturally, it's not available either.

I'm soooo glad I discovered this industry. ;-)

One thing -- Your note about it reducing wifi range made me dig a little bit. On RotorPixel's FAQ page...

http://www.rotorpixel.com/contact/

They say...

[The] video transmission distance will be degraded coming from one side of the camera by some amount (proper range tests have not been done yet). However, in many of our tests, we've found that the main transmitter control signal (5.8GHz) is usually lost well before the video signal is lost.

If the live video feed temporarily stalls while within range, all wifi functions will remain in operation (start/stop recording, photos, camera tilt, image review, etc.). By simply pressing the "back" button, then re-entering the camera, the live feed will usually be restarted. (Unless you’re out of range).

We tend to push the drone fairly far out and have lost contact with it a few times (happens when the vide-lag is bad and we lose track of distance as reported by the app - the "2nd person" copilot helps by eyeballing distance now).

They also added that the Android tends to stall more than iPad, which is too bad since I plan to use my Kindle when we get the glasses. We have had a stall with my S3, but never with iPhone, so this may be an issue (gimbal aggravating video feed).

I checked out the competing "DIY for Dummies" product lead that you provided, Pull_Up...

http://dronexpert.nl/product/dji-vision-gimbal-2/

Check out the very clever side-by-side video comparison. Smart idea.

Differences that I note...

- They don't mention any problem with the antenna-blockage issue.

- It's lighter in weight (140g vs 260g per your YT vid), so should get a bit more flying time.

- The "7th channel" feature is included (and does not disable the tilt function on the smartphone/tablet app). For those wearing goggles, this looks like a slick add-on. You can tilt (via the remote) without having to look at an app.

But, yes, you guessed it... 6 weeks delivery. <sigh>

Pull_Up, you said that "that's it" for easy DIY-gimbal, so I assume that the Zenmuse is NOT easy to install?

And finally, what's the general consensus from those 2 monster threads? Does DroneExpert get the nod due to the points about or does Rotorpixel do a better job of stabilizing? Or does it have problems with video-blockage, too? Other problems?

I need a bottom line before I lose my mind here. :)

Seriously, thanks very much for all your help. Don't forget to look us up when you visit the colony. :)
 
Great thread and spectacular views, KenKopter!

To add another iron in your fire, you may want to check out some of the youtube tutorials (or google search) how to reduce fisheye lens effect using PhotoShop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyDXZv816J4
[url=http://www.tricedesigns.com/2...w.tricedesigns.com/2013/08/05/ ... o-cameras/[/url]
The second link is for GoPro lenses but can be adapted for the P2V

I have caught the bug and will be transitioning from a P2V to a P2 with ZenMuse / GoPro 3+ because of the gimbal capability and relatively stabilized video. I thought briefly about trying to convert a P2V to a P2Z but it is simply not cost effective, or, to my reading, not possible even with a new 2.4GHz controller.

As Pull_Up has stated, going the P2Z (2.4GHz control / 5.8GHz video signal) rouge gives me more flexibility to go with either goggles, or, screen. I'm leaning toward the latter so I can have LOS. But then again, it's cold and not as bright in Canada as it is for you :lol: and my kids are not old enough to be spotters. They are having a blast on Heli-X though! I may have created two more R/C monsters!

Best of luck
 

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