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Simplest Solution for FPV Glasses/Goggle Flying?

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision Discussion' started by KenKopter, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. KenKopter

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    Hello to all,

    Total newbie, here, so please be gentle. :)

    Seriously, I'm so glad to have found this amazing set of forums. I sure wish I had found this community and read this sticky note...

    viewtopic.php?p=35718#p35718

    ... before I experienced my own first "flyaway." I didn't understand why Phantom's Pilot Training Manual had a "don't panic" note until then!

    I mean, there's nothing BUT panic when your $1200 pride and joy is a dot that keeps getting smaller and smaller. But, true to its promise to return home, it did indeed (and against a stiff tradewind at that!). It landed within a few feet of us, battery alarms going off for the last couple of minutes. Exciting!

    --

    Anyway, I must admit that, even after a few more practice sessions, I have had trouble staying oriented once the battery orientation changes.

    So I tried to imagine that I'm the pilot, seeing what he sees regardless of direction, and just steer according to that. If the copter is 90 degrees left (off the original), it's easier to remember that flying left (relative to me) is now "right toggle up" since THAT is now "straight ahead."

    That has helped. However, when it gets further away/higher up, it gets hard to see (even plastered with stickers) what the orientation is. And doing figure-8s with the camera always pointing straight ahead? That's going to take some time to master, especially with my sense of direction.

    And THAT is when I had the thought "why not BE the pilot immersively, with glasses?"

    One tends to ignore the phone app because it's awfully hard seeing either the iPhone or Samsung S3 in the sun. Even if it was visible, it's hard enough running two controllers, let alone adjusting the tilt of the camera using the phone's app, all at the same time.

    I had no idea if these glasses existed, but discovered an industry of products for this acronym, FPV.

    --

    Sorry for the length of this, but as a bit more background, we live on a tiny island in the Caribbean called Anguilla. My daughter has a website about it, anguilla-beaches.com. It receives thousands of visits per day, which helps our tourism industry quite a bit.

    She wants to create some of those dramatic beach vids that we've seen elsewhere. Actually, as we played with this idea, there's a heck of a lot of fun we can have with these while promoting our home.

    But it's going to take quite a while to get proficient enough at flying this incredible invention, before we'd get close enough to risk losing it in the sea, let alone producing really exciting vids.

    That is where FPV comes in.

    --

    My daughter and I figure that capturing the beauty of Anguilla from this unique perspective would be a 2-person operation - one person flies (FPV) with the skill that FPV should accelerate, while the other works the app and tilts the camera for optimal angles from inside a blind (which we have to cut down wind when doing beach vids). Communications between the two of us would fine-tune the results.

    A nice father-daughter project is the added bonus. :)

    --

    Actually, I feel like an idiot, since no one else seems to have these troubles. Regardless, I figure that if someone is in the immersive experience of "being" the pilot, it doesn't matter which direction the battery is pointing. Going "straight" becomes relative to the camera, not something the pilot has to worry about.

    You simply fly according to what you see. You don't look at your copter. You don't struggle with the remote, trying to figure out angles. You just fly like an actual pilot.

    In short, if my right hand pushes the right stick up, the pilot goes in the direction that the camera is pointing. If it pushes left, the copter goes left, relative to the camera. NO thought involved - guiding the Phantom becomes intuitive.

    Please tell me -- do I have that right, or am I missing something? Sorry for this really newb question, but if I have that wrong, the rest is pointless.

    --

    This "idea" (at least, I thought it was an idea at the time) led us to HOW we'd do it. I had previously plugged my Kindle Fire into our plasma using its mini-HDMI-to-regular-HDMI cable and it worked perfectly, playing what I see on the Kindle directly onto the plasma.

    So, all I needed was a pair of video glasses that would accept HDMI (we'd use the Kindle instead of the phone -- bigger and more visible screen).

    I didn't even know if these things existed, but during one of my searches, this post came up, which is how I discovered these forums....

    viewtopic.php?p=44708#p44708

    Reading that whole thread with growing excitement, I realized that there are two basic options...

    1) straight video glasses, such as the ITVgoggles (or some other brand) suggested in the above post that I had found. This option is interesting for another reason, which is, of course, the primary purpose of this type of glasses..

    If the video and audio quality are of the high level that it's said to be, it would be amazing to watch a movie on the plane or before going to bed, when I tend to read or watch something on my Kindle. There's no need to hold the Kindle for 2 hours AND you get a real theatre experience.

    -0R-

    2) Fatshark or other glasses that are especially made for FPV. I would lose the "home theatre on my head" option, but I get some specialized FPV benefit, except I'm not sure what that is, except...

    This category of goggle cuts out ambient light. I don't know if that's a serious enough factor with the regular glasses or not to be a deciding factor? On the other hand, the video quality is supposed to be lower -- I'm not sure how important that is, either.

    We have the Phantom 2 Vision, so a feature such as head-tracking would not seem to apply since the built-in camera only tilts up-down. What other advantages are there? Disadvantages?

    One thing -- it seems that it's not a SIMPLE matter of running my Kindle into a pair of Fatshark (or other FPV brand) goggles. It seems technically more complicated to set up, possibly needing more equipment than JUST the goggles?

    -

    So finally (and with apologies for the length of this), here's the question(s)...

    Putting aside the home theatre and taking into account our 2-person operation plan, which option makes the most sense for us and why? If it's the former, all I have to do is order them and plug them into the Kindle (although I'm not sure which glasses to choose - I can't find a single comprehensive comparative review of all the major brands, but I'll figure it out if you tell me THIS is the right choice for us, and will report back what I find, if anyone is interested).

    If the latter (FPV-specialized) is the right choice, please explain the major advantages, given how we'd like to work. Can you still use something like Fatshark with a Kindle, or does it need a whole new monitor? What would the optimal configuration be for the Phantom 2 Vision? Which brand is generally considered "best" for that?

    Money is a consideration, not really THE issue. We want to get the best results possible, but don't want to take things aport, solder them, etc. I've never been good at turning a screwdriver. ;-)

    That said, if there is an option that delivers a massive improvement, I'm sure I could find someone here who could follow instructions. We want to amaze folks with these videos. :)

    --

    The above thread did not really come to a resolution. I wish Gavin (who suggested ITVgoggles) came back and told us what the experience was like, but he only ever made the one post. There are many other threads about the latter option, but many of them assume more knowledge than newbies like my daughter and me have (zero, basically).

    --

    Complete "for dummies" answers would be tremendously appreciated, both by us and future generations struggling to get from "here" (not knowing that googles even existed) to where you all are (doing some incredible things that I don't understand). A thread that helps newbies make the transition would be fantastic (if this is all answered in a thread that I missed, my apologies -- please point me to it).

    I promise in advance to feedback on whatever direction we choose. Someone in the thread mentioned above asked him how it went. I'll be sure to let future newbies how WE made that next, mysterious step and how it went.

    Thanks very much in advance for any help you can provide to help us get "there." :)

    All the best,
    Ken
     
  2. SunnyCoastFlier

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    Hi Ken, fantastic thread......you are not alone!
    I do not have your answers, but do have similar questions.....I would like to just set up an FPV, the glasses would be a luxury! So is there a lead to set up an FPV? Apple Mini is no good as there is no Phantom App, and as the rest of my hardware is Apple an FPV seems the way (or glasses).
    I have not had a fly away yet! (Touch wood).
    For vision (well no vision) I have a Sony Experia and this is no good as the camera software is useless, the I phone works well, but as we know it is a tad small.....
    So if there is some advice out there on the goggles or how to set up an FPV please come on back.....
    Keep on flying Ken
     
  3. KenKopter

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    Hi Sunny,

    Setting up the FPV is relatively painless.

    1) Download and install the "DJI Vision App"

    Mac (ex.,iPhone, iPad, iPod touch -- hope you have one of those?)
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dji-vis ... 39159?mt=8

    Android (ex., Samsung, Nexus0
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... sion&hl=en

    For Kindle, I had to sideload the .apk, also fairly straightforward. You download it from Google Play, find it in your Kindle through one of the File Management apps, then double-click.

    2) Once you have the app installed, open it up after you have turned on remote control, copter, camera , and extender. You'll be asked for your CJI login (one-time only).

    3) Now, back on your device with the app, go to Settings FOR THE DEVICE, and change wireless connection from whatever you are using for WIFI to "Phantom_1" (followed by 5 characters, if memory serves -- NOT the other option "FC200" or whatever, that's for the camera).

    4) Once you're hooked up to the WIFI, click Camera on your app. You should now be seeing (on your device) what your camera is seeing.

    And that's it, Sunny! I can get that far, but what I'd like to do now is connect my Kindle to some video glasses or FPV goggles, as simply as possible, using whatever is generally regarded as "best." That's where there is either a paucity of information or too much advanced info.

    We seem to be stuck in-between. Hope this has been helpful.

    All the best,
    Ken
     
  4. Pull_Up

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    Hi there.

    Out of the box,standard fatsharks are not going to work with the Vision - they operate on 5.8GHz, the same frequency as the Vision's transmitter. I'm sure you can see why that might be a problem!

    So, you have other options. Some people have set up a larger tablet (7" android, iPad mini, even iPad or 10" android) and either attached them to the transmitter or set them up on a separate tripod.

    Another option is to get goggles with HDMI in (e.g. Zeiss Cinemizers) and use a device with HDMI out options (some Nexus devices on android, some iOS devices with appropriate adapter. The Zeiss are top dollar, other cheaper options may be available.

    Fatshark is about to release a model of its goggles that accepts HDMI input as well, the dominator HD: http://fatshark.com/product/1757.html (ready in April I believe).

    Now I don't know for sure but I believe the Kindle has HDMI out in which case with the right cable and the right goggles you can get an FPV solution rigged up.

    Other options for helping with orientation issues include:

    Fit a bright light on the front (or back) so can see which is which;
    Use Intelligent Orientation Control (IOC - description of it in the vid in my signature below) by switching from Vision Mode to NAZA mode;
    Read Shrimpfarmer's thread here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8694

    Hope this is some useful starter information...
     
  5. rmklaw

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    I am also considering going FPV with the Vision. I am thinking about the Zeiss Cinemizer OLEG since it plugs directly into the iPhone adapter. One concern I have is that it may not be immersive experience since it looks like a narrow field of view

    Anyone has tried them?
     
  6. Pull_Up

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  7. KenKopter

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    Hi Pull_up,

    Thanks very much for the help. You overestimate me with you say, "I'm sure you can see why that might be a problem!" except that I surmise that it somehow conflicts with some part of the built-in Vision's system.

    So let me ask the stupid question (no pride here if I can figure this out :) )...

    It sounds like a different "tramsmitter" is necessary. There are several transmissions happening - what part of the Vision is considered the "transmitter?" And how do folks get Fatshark working if there is this conflict?

    Does some part of the copter have to be turned off for Fatshark to work? What extra equipment does that mean is necessary?

    I suspect that many newbies could benefit from a "why Fatshark is better and how to set it up" step-by-step. I do, contrary to all appearances, pick things up quickly once I get past that initial "no clue" stage. :)

    --

    Thanks for the tip about Zeiss Cinemizers. I found them on Amazon. The OLED appears to be their flagship...

    http://cinemizer.zeiss.com/cinemizer-ol ... /home.html

    Found them on Amazon...

    Cinemizer OLED multimedia video glasses by Carl Zeiss ($789)
    http://www.amazon.com/Cinemizer-multime ... 0091OI530/

    I couldn't find much about ITVgoggle, but THIS tip opened a door. They only have 2.5 stars, mixed reviews, although there's only 3 reviews so far.

    One of the reviews mentioned "HMD." Looking at the keywords in the source code of ITVgoggles.com led me to term "head mounted display."

    So, I've got a name for this industry! That leads to many strong options, it seems. In Amazon, the "Customers Who Viewed This Item Also Viewed" section finds several others with stronger reviews to consider. I'll include them here for convenience of others...

    --

    Sony HMZ-T3W Head Mounted 3D Viewer (4 stars, 21 reviews) $998
    http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HMZ-T3W-Head ... B00FNJGJN0

    --

    i-Glasses 920HR (3.5 stars, 3 reviews -- but 2 of them were 5 stars, 1 person got a faulty pair) $299
    http://www.amazon.com/I-O-Display-A5028 ... B002LKFYYY

    --

    Vuzix Wrap 920 Video Eyewear (3 stars, 37 reviews) $617
    http://www.amazon.com/Vuzix-Wrap-920-Vi ... B002SUCMUG

    NOTE: Vusix sells a Lightshield...

    Vuzix Corp. Wrap Lightshield (4 stars, 7 reviews)
    http://www.amazon.com/Vuzix-Corp-366T00 ... 004GAO1OQ/

    The reviews convince me that these will result in a much better experience, one person specifically mentioning FPV. One called it a "MUST HAVE"

    --

    Vuzix Wrap 310XL Widescreen Video Iwear Eyewear Glasses (3 stars, 15 reviews) $289
    http://www.amazon.com/Vuzix-310XL-Wides ... 003YKN4CE/

    --

    And several others below that in price, but likely also quality.

    --

    The Sony unit looks like it blocks out light without an accessory, has tremendous reviews and is wireless. That may mean that it could pick up the video signal directly from Phantom, which would be pretty slick...

    There would be no need for a cord tying to the phone. I can see how that might cause problems.

    I've left a question at Amazon since none of the reviews or Q&A addressed FPV use or ambient light. You can find it at...

    http://www.amazon.com/Person-Phantom-Vi ... GDWRIBF/1/

    2 answers already. The light may not be blocked out completely. And one person is less enthusiatic (mixed) about the product than the reviews.

    --

    The i-Glasses 920HR sound pretty good, at 30% of the price, with 2 outstanding reviews. Needs more researching.

    Anyway, it looks like there is a solution here. :)

    Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, Pull_up!

    The Kindle DOES have an HDMI (mini) out port. As mentioned above, I've already used it to connect to our HD plasma and it looks terrific. So it's just a matter of mini-to-regular HDMI cable into one of the above goggles...

    Now it's just a matter of digging deeper for the perfect solution. It felt like a barren field until now!

    --

    Your link to an upcoming HDMI version of Fatshark was interesting, too...

    http://fatshark.com/product/1757.html

    It raises the question - are these now "just" video glasses, too, or is there something special about Fatshark that provides important piloting capabilities that I'm missing?

    --

    What remains is the decision whether to go in the "simple direction" or with "true FPV" googles like Fatshark. Is there some compelling reason to use them with the Phantom 2 Vision?

    Or are you implying that the 5.8GHz creates an incompatibility that requires workarounds, extra equipment, without extra benefit for this "all-built-in" copter (camera can't swivel, only tilt)?

    This has really helped. Some information regarding Fatshark to help demystify all the technical threads surrounding the use of these (and other FPV-specialized brands) would wrap this topic up for newbies like me.

    I "get" that there's an incompatibility due to the 5.8GHz issue. What I don't understand is why an owner of a Phantom 2 Vision would want more than regular video glasses that can block out ambient light.

    Can anyone comment on that, please?

    Thanks very much.

    All the best,
    Ken
     
  8. Pull_Up

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    Ok, I'm not experienced using traditional FPV equipment but here's the basics:

    The standard frequency for model flying control transmitters is 2.4GHz. In order to send a camera view back to a screen or goggles the 5.8GHz frequency was used, with a video transmitter unit on the aircraft sending to a receiver unit (standlone or built in to screen or goggles) on the ground. This is the method used for FPV flying using the Phantom 2 (non-Vision) and most other aircraft/FPV combo's.

    The Vision uses a digital signal over wifi - 2.4GHz - for its FPV and telemetry downlink. This would interfere with a traditional 2.4GHz control transmitter. So DJI engineered a 5.8GHz control system for the aircraft (I believe unique to DJI thus far).

    So traditional 5.8GHz FPV video transmitters risk interfering with the aircraft's control frequency (not good).

    Hence why the simplest way to get an immersive goggles-type FPV with the Vision is to simply mirror the screen of your smartphone/tablet through HDMI to some goggles with HDMI input. You would then see exactly what your smartphone screen shows, just in front of your eyes and hence what the camera is pointing at. The alternative is to send it to a bigger monitor or use a bigger iDevice/Android device.

    Hope that clears that up a bit.

    As to which goggles are best, etc, well that's out of my experience - I'm happy for my purposes using smartphone/small tablet. But note that although the Vision sends it's FPV stream over 2.4GHz it's only visible via the iOS/Android app.
     
  9. Pull_Up

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    ...and i apologise for all and any errors and ommissions in the above - it's getting late! ;)
     
  10. cavaleiro01

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  11. P2VUp

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    The Oculus Rift also has an HDMI interface and is a wide field of view. They are the development versions for now available at their web site for $300 (oculusvr.com). Not sure how the controls would look at the edges of the screen, but I bet the barrel distortion of the P2V image might flatten out nicely in the Rift display. The development kits aren't high resolution but neither is the iPhone downlink video. Might be a great match. Anyone tried it? I am really thinking about it...
     
  12. KenKopter

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    Thanks so much for that excellent explanation, Pull_Up, at...

    viewtopic.php?p=73260#p73260

    For folks like me, that's must-reading, especially this part...

    But, as you said earlier, Fatshark uses the same frequency, hence the interference. Got it.

    Given that, why do most users in these forums (who want the immersive experience) seem to use Fatshark? What are the upsides to choosing it over the easy solution, which is, to quote you...

    That makes the most sense to me, especially for Phantom 2 Vision where a feature like head tilt, which would be amazing for a free-floating camera that can swivel, would be invaluable (but can't be used with Vision since you can only tilt the camera up or down).

    Or do I have that wrong? Does the "head tilt" function enable you to tilt the camera up and down? If it does, that would eliminate the need for a second operator to control the camera using the phone or tablet.

    That was really helpful. All that's left is if someone could explain why so many folks choose Fatshark and, given the interference, what else is needed when you go that route since some sort of workaround must be needed to prevent the interference?

    I found this post by Gizmo3000 (1500 posts so obviously with a lot of experience like you, Pull_Up), that said...

    viewtopic.php?p=25691#p25691

    If that's correct, then it would seem that Fatshark-type FPV is not an option for Vision users, where everything is built-in. If THAT is correct, then we are left with the set of options that I outlined above or your suggestion, Pull_Up, of waing for Fatshark's upcoming HDMI goggles...

    http://fatshark.com/product/1757.html

    I don't see the advantage of built-in DVR recording (since the Vision does that already), and the resolution does not seem to be as high as some of the higher-end "regular" glasses. Other features (such as the head-tracking) doesn't seem like they would apply to the Vision. It does, though, look like it would block out all ambient light.

    The bottom line, it appears, is that "regular" glasses, either the Sony or the Vusix with its "light shield," seem to be the solution for Vision users. Can any Fatshark users confirm that? (I'll PM Gizmo3000 to see if he can add any help on this).

    Thanks again, Pull_Up, much appreciated.

    All the best,
    Ken

    P.S. To cavaleiro01, who suggested the Oculus Rift. Whoa! That's one big unit. I'd feel pretty strange using that on the beach. ;-)

    That aside, it does have some excellent reviews on Amazon...

    http://www.amazon.com/Oculus-Rift-Devel ... 00F5CWD0I/

    Ignore the angry reviews. Some guy seems to be selling it for $3000, when you can buy the same thing directly from Oculus for $300!...

    https://www.oculusvr.com/order/

    However, note that this for developers who want to develop supporting products for it using their SDK. You have to click that "I understand this hardware is intended for developers and it is not a consumer product." So their documentation may be focused more on developers. I can't find the consumer version for sale yet.

    Also, on the product photo on that page, you can see some sort of in-between device, which would make this a rather clunky set up. I'll dig further into the Sony product -- if "wireless" means that their glasses can also pick up the feed directly via the copter's WIFI, that's really the perfect scenario since there'd be no need to tether phone (or tablet) to the glasses.
     
  13. Pull_Up

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    Users on this forum using Fat Sharks are not actually in this sub-forum, because the Vision uses wifi for sending its video and telemetry stream back to an android/iDevice and you need an app to decode it. Users who have the Phantom 2 (non-Vision version) have traditional 2.4GHz control frequency and no built-in camera. They attach a GoPro, link GoPro to a 5.8GHz video sender on the aircraft then enjoy the view on the Fat Sharks. Standard radio transmission used to get the video from aircraft to ground.

    So, Phantom 2 Vision - complete out of the box solution, not designed to be modded (but tell that to the guys tricking them out for big range, but that's a different story!), plug and play with your smartphone. Downlink includes video preview, telemetry data, full camera control over shutter, settings etc. If your phone/tablet has HDMI out then you can mirror your screen onto anything with HDMI in, though - monitors, hoem cinema goggles, etc.

    Phantom 2 (non-Vision!) - designed for GoPro, you can add whatever 5.8GHz video transmitter/receiver option you wish that suits your budget, etc, use goggles or screen or whatever. No remote camera control, no telemetry out of the box unless you add additional devices (like mini iOSD from DJI, etc). Need to either have some technical ability to put it all together or pay someone to do it at point of sale or after.

    Hope that clarifies further.
     
  14. KenKopter

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    Pull_Up, that didn't just clarify, it NAILED it! :)

    Now I totally understand - FatShark makes no sense at all for those with Phantom 2 Vision. DJI created Vision, having seen how many people were going to all the work of creating FPV, right down to the goggles.

    Vision is perfect for folks like me. However, Vision comes with certain limitations, like any "all-built-in" solution. That's fine. If this works out well but we want "more," we can always buy CJI's next iteration or develop the perfect custom copter (I've noticed that there are folks who do this as a service).

    As to tricking our current Vision out for greater distance, um... I think that I'll stick with the protection vs. flyaway for the time being. ;-) Once we get this puppy plugged into the right pair of glasses, though, our 2-person operation should give us the system we need to fly over beaches with reasonable skill (not getting mixed up when you're not sure which direction the battery is pointing) and present Anguilla from a beautiful new perspective.

    Thanks a million, Pull_Up. THAT was the missing piece. Like I mentioned, it's impossible to under-estimate how little newbies know, info that you veterans take for granted. Or maybe it's just me - but hopefully, this will be helpful for others, too!

    I'll be back with a review of whatever glasses we finally choose! Again, thank you!

    All the best,
    Ken
     
  15. Pull_Up

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    No problem. Of course the downside of the HDMI output is that it's a wired solution. The upside of it though is that you can pilot through goggles, but your co-pilot can still use the phone or tablet to operate the camera shutter and tilt, adjust camera settings, etc. (although you'll see what they do on your "screen" as it's just a mirror, so best not to mess with the actual FPV view too much if you're getting close to the palm trees... ;) )
     
  16. Gizmo3000

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    Well I'm trying to sort out the information.

    I don't have the Vision, so I'm uncertain if/what kind of video-out it might have to use with goggles that have video in .
    but if it has HDMI out, and you can find some other goggles that have HDMI-in, then perhaps that's your only option.

    simultaneously, I know that you CAN in fact get Fatshark Domintors that accept the 2.4ghz Rx (to work with a 2.4ghz Tx), however I'm not very confident that they use the same 2.4ghz that the Vision does.
     
  17. Pull_Up

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    The Vision doesn't use 2.4GHz radio transmission, it uses 2.4GHz wifi transmissions and you need an iDevice/Android at the other end to convert that into the image and the telemetry, etc. The Vision itself has no "outs" at all, but the viewing device if chosen wisely can have HDMI out, and that's what then mirrors its display onto another device, be it a large monitor or goggles with HDMI in. You could also use goggles that accept RCA in if you use an HDMI-RCA converter I would imagine...
     
  18. KenKopter

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    That's a good point, Pull_Up. There'll need to be some communication between us, but yes... that division of labor should work well. You make a good point re wired. A further refinement that could "untether" pilot and co-pilot (good name for the person running the screen) would be the following...

    1) co-pilot - as described, using app on Kindle (or any tablet, I'd imagine)

    2) pilot also connects via app, using iPhone or Android phone. Its only purpose is to wire it to the goggles, untethering the two people.

    That way, the co-pilot can navigate while sitting in the shade. Meanwhile, the pilot can wander off blindly into the waves, I guess, while gleefully piloting. ;-)

    Seriously, this should work well IF either our Samsung or iPHone are HDMI out. If there is no HDMI-out from phone to goggles, I imagine that image quality would not be as good as it would be coming from the Kindle (which is HDMI to HDMI). We'll experiment and see.

    --

    To Gizmo3000, thanks very much for responding to my PM and dropping by. Basically, I'm a newb who missed a couple of key points while wondering about if/how to use Fatshark with my new Phantom 2 Vision. Pull_Up explained about the 5.8Ghz interference of Vision's transmitter and Fatshark.

    So we concluded that connecting my Kindle (the DJI Vision app works on it, when side-loaded in) directly to some regular HDMI googles (like ITVgoggles) would be the easiest way to get immersive FPV flying. One person manages the app's functionality using the Kindle (bigger, easier to see), while the other does the FPV flying.

    It should also make it much easier to fly with since the it's hard to keep track of where the battery is when watching the copter and the phone's screen is hard to see in the sun.

    The other basic conclusion was that Fatshark is more for those using the Vision-less Phantoms, where there is no "5.8 conflict."

    I reached out via PM due to your post on a related thread which didn't come to a firm resolution. Does this make sense to you?

    All the best,
    Ken
     
  19. Pull_Up

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    Sorry to put another fly in your ointment, Ken, but you can't have two apps connected at the same time. This does make sense, otherwise anyone with the DJI Vision app on their phone could crash your flight and mess with your camera, even make your aircraft yaw around with the accelerometer mode - it's a sensible security measure.

    I keep taking your toys away, don't I?! :)
     
  20. KenKopter

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    Yes, you do. ;-)

    Oh well, back to Plan A.

    A question...

    Do folks really get to the level where they can fly the quadcopter well AND manage the app functions (assuming they can see the phone screen well enough on a sunny day) or is a 2-person operation fairly common? If the latter, it would be a reasonable and simple to add a preference or setting for the app... "How many simultaneous connections?"

    Choosing 2 would be "at your own risk," with a security warning. And for extra security, it could revert to single-connection after usage.

    If enough people fly "dual," it would be a nice, easy feature to add. One can dream, right, about removing flies from that ointment? :)

    Again, thanks very much. This has really crystallized

    All the best,
    Ken

    P.S. Re research about best goggles to use, the Sony pair (from the list that I made in the previous post), which was the leading contender, has certain problems (tons of wires and discomfort/difficulty "getting it all right." So I've dropped them.

    At this moment ITVgoggles leads the pack for elegance, simplicity, picture quality and doing EXACTLY what I want. The major worry there is that they get very little publicity and are dead in social media (very little engagement) However, it certainly looks like THE most elegant and effective solution -- I have sent questions in to their Sales people (including ambient light, which they may, in particular, suffer from).

    Vuzix is another possibility (the newer Wrap 1200, not the 920 that I originally listed). They have much more Web traffic, according to Alexa...

    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/vuzix.com (150,000, decent for a niche of this size)

    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/itvgoggles.com (3 million, poor even for a blogger)

    Their social media is also dismal, though, which is weird for such a cool product.

    As a standard of comparison, traffic to these forums is...

    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/phantompilots.com (averaging around 100,000 or so, weighting more heavily for the U.S. but with international traffic growing). These forums get found at Google and other engines better then the 2 bigger companies above! Great results for a niche site run by a much smaller operation, I would imagine. But look at the degree of engagement of folks -- these forums are just superb.

    Checking relative traffic within a relatively small niche is useful. I worry about ITVgoggles' ability to last with so little traffic -- if the product was great, they should have much more traffic (3 million is very low) and should be able to grow much more buzz in social media than they do. Not good signs.

    If my questions to ITVgoggles are answered well, I'll likely go with ITVgoggles. If not, Vuzix. Or I may wait for those new Fatsharks. Although they don't sound like they measure up in terms of image quality, these folks do focus totally on the needs of FPVers.

    Other options are falling by the wayside for various reasons. But if anyone can swear by a particular brand of video glasses/head mounted display for FPV with the Phantom 2 Vision, please post here?

    Otherwise, the final choice will be somewhat of a gamble. There are a couple of extensive comparison charts online, but no ratings with them. And there are amazingly few reviews.

    As an aside -- There's an online biz opportunity for someone who's really into FPV, or perhaps a separate forum here might prove popular. One's first instinct is to search for reviews - there are almost none of any value, either video or written.

    But I digress. ;-)