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Self policing and better get insurance

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision + Discussion' started by Flyer91, May 3, 2014.

  1. Flyer91

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    OK, so it's time to get verbally abusive with people when we read about them doing something stupid with these things.
    Not so much that berating some moron that's jeopardizing your ability to fly where/when it's safe will prevent the inevitable, but we might as well take our recreational "kick the dog" frustrations out on these buttheads by ganging up on them.

    We not only don't chastise people doing un-smart things ..... we seem to celebrate their accomplishments of flying higher and farther away than the last posted moron-record.
    IMHO .... not too flippin wise and/or what will do a whole lot to keep the hobby free from restrictions ....... especially when we all seem to post concerns about flyaways and loss of control.... for whatever reasons.
    Also ......most charters of most forums don't even allow anyone to gang up on idiots ..... as it's against the forum rules.
    So ... to the general public (and more importantly ..... lip licking politicos) we are cannon fodder by our own words.

    Of course I only 'semi'-jest about getting verbal with people that post the "I flew 2000 ft alt, or 1.5 miles away", but the lack of our being able to police ourselves 'is' going to come to a head this summer, and we 'will' see widespread, restrictive legislation as a result.

    Bragging on open forums about these types of actions is totally beyond stupid, when only a few accidents that 'will' happen and 'will' take lives, are "easy to scare the general public" opportunities ...... that have little backlash (from the super-minority population of drone flyers) for the politicians that 'will' use them for their stands, and are what politicians call a "gimmie".

    Although I don't have any special inside info, I would certainly not be surprised if the limits DJI added to the Assistant are as much a function of their corporate lawyers' concerns about liability litigation as it is something of a marketing feather.

    In any case as the weather gets warmer we 'will' see more of this ........

    http://singularityhub.com/2014/02/18...vilian-drones/
    http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...ors&id=9292217
    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...g-efforts.html
    http://www.statter911.com/2014/04/16...e-oh-arrested/
    http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/...pv-and-rc-last

    If you feel your hobby/investment is worth it, you want some liability insurance .... up to $2.5 million (and you are certainly going to need it if you hit somebody ...... especially in the coming crap-storm), have a large and poweful voice/lobby on your side, ........ a 'great' monthly magazine ..... do yourself ..... and us all a big favor ...... and join the AMA and get all that for $58 per year.
    For info look here:
    http://www.modelaircraft.org/documents.aspx
     
  2. panhygrous pantler

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    How do you plan to get "verbally abusive" with people on forums when they can't hear you?

    The superfluous "feel good" AMA insurance is merely supplemental to your existing insurance. But that doesn't stop folks from preaching about it...
     
  3. CRankin

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    Rather than getting abusive with people, I'd suggest that those of us who wish to fly our equipment responsibly do everything we can to distance ourselves from them and show that irresponsible actions are not welcome in our community.

    We could start with ignoring them, or simply banning them from our forums, and clubs, and meetups. If those actions prove ineffective, then we could/should consider other means - though I'm not exactly sure what those could be at this point.

    I agree with your concerns, though. I do think that a few idiots have the potential to create problems for everyone... That being said, I don't know how immediately willing I'll be to obey any new laws that I feel are overly restrictive. As long as I'm not doing anything to put myself or others in danger, the government ought have no right or reason to prohibit any flight. (Though I don't think I'd care to test that theory in places like downtown DC any time soon. ;) )
     
  4. Flyer91

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    Well ..... you do have to have enough intelligence to connect the dots on how to get verbally abusive on a forum, and you also need to be capable of mustering enough common sense and awareness that not everybody that flys a drone has insurance.
    But then .... you (self admittedly) can't even understand how to get verbally abusive.
    End of lesson. :lol:
     
  5. panhygrous pantler

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    You really need to find an adult to help you understand why you can't get verbally abusive on a forum.

    They should start by explaining the definition of "verbal"

    Beat of luck.
     
  6. Flyer91

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    Yup, that's what I meant by "semi-jest". ;)

    The idea of banning posts with dangerous activities described, is a god idea.
    I'm not sure if that is something that Adam would want to take on though, and I could understand if he didn't .

    These are flying cameras, not stunt/sport RC aircraft, but if a person wanted to fly them like that there are safe/sanctioned places to do it.
    This has historically been flying fields and those fields require each member or guest have AMA membership specifically for the insurance.
    But .... AMA insurance provides coverage for flying at other than just fields and their restrictions mirror the limits in the new Assistant ( or more correctly .... the Assistant mirrors the AMA rules).

    In any case ...... unless we can come up with ways to discourage the activities that will lead to restrictive legislation, it will happen.
     
  7. Flyer91

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    Me thinks you mean vocaly, or in your case ..... more probably ..... oraly. ;)

    It's 2014 and this is what verbal means ....... these days :

    ver′bal·ly adv.
    Usage Note: Verbal has been used since the 16th century to refer to spoken, as opposed to written, communication, and the usage cannot be considered incorrect. But because verbal may also mean "by linguistic means," it may be ambiguous in some contexts. Thus the phrase modern technologies for verbal communication may refer only to devices such as radio, the telephone, and the loudspeaker, or it may refer to devices such as the telegraph, the teletype, and the fax machine. In such contexts it may be clearer to use the word oral to convey the narrower sense of communication by spoken means.

    And so ends 'adult' lesson #2. :lol: :lol:
     
  8. RedRyderMedia

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    I suggest we stop the lessons and stop getting distracted by the meaning of verbal, and focus on the issue of a minority in this hobby ruining the hobby for others by provoking some outside the hobby to actions none of us want to see happen.

    My limited experience so far has been surprisingly positive from the general public when they first encounter my P2V+. I for one hope we self police this hobby to prevent the minority from changing that positive reaction for something negative.

    Unfortunately, I suspect those that are responsible enough to get liability insurance, aren't the ones that act irresponsibly with their quad.

    I suspect the problems will be from two general types, 1) the irresponsible pilots during the newbie phase when their impulsiveness exceeds their skills. Hopefully these will crash and burn and exit the hobby for financial reasons. 2) the daredevil that survives the newbie stage but continues to push the envelop until the odds catch up to them.

    I don't presume to know the solution, I'm just trying to offer some thoughts in hopes we can begin to agree on the problem.
     
  9. Big Chips

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    here is my reply to this thread.... and being a world record setter in distance for the stock PV2 1.2 miles :D

    So which you are you? Guy with the headband or The Mack with the hat on???? I am the MACK!

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JEWzS8B2j0[/youtube]
     
  10. SilentAV8R

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    Not sure what you know about it, but from my years of being around the AMA I have found the AMA insurance to be an effective tool at limiting your liability in the event of an accident.

    Yes, it is secondary to other insurance, if you have any. Otherwise it is primary. But before getting complacent about your homeowners ask your agent if you are covered for flying a "drone" or model aircraft. If the answer is yes, ask about the limits. Many times even if you are covered the limits are very low.

    AMA membership also gives you $25,000 in medical insurance (covers you in case you stick your hand in a prop, etc.) and also $1,000 in fire/theft/vandalism coverage.

    Saying it is superfluous indicates to me that you rally have no direct experience or understanding about the AMA and how their insurance works.
     
  11. Flyer91

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    Neither ....... I'm the guy telling you the cops are coming ..... ;)

    I've seen your video and IMO you are not the problem.
    Although you did appear go over a few houses that you could have easily avoided (and that was probably not in compliance with what the AMA would have covered you for if you had of done any damage) your flights were basically over forest, and are statistically not on par with somebody doing that same sort of thing over Manhattan.
    And as such I doubt if you flew that same path every day for the rest of your life you would ever cause a "news worthy event" even if you crashed on every flight.

    People that are doing the things that will get us all a bunch of restrictive rules to live with (if we end up being that lucky to only have restrictions) know that they are pushing it, or are just not bright/mature enough to be flying these while unsupervised.
     
  12. Flyer91

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    You are of course correct regarding the "lesson".
    I digressed ...... :oops:

    Yeah .. the public, once seeing these things .... seems to respond very favorably .... as long as we aren't flying over their custom and collector cars at an informal gathering, or over their kids in a playground.

    But that good will between us and them will fade quickly if the media continues to get it as woefully wrong as in one of the links I posted ...... pilots license to fly them indeed!
    The media makes bank selling sensationalized stories that seem to become fact to people with little knowledge of the subject.
    And when you add first responders saying they they are concerned about these things ...... it helps to paint a need or at least a path to consensus for restrictive regulation.

    That's where joining the AMA and helping them to help us .... with their big voice/lobby, is one step we can all take to have a foot in the door ....... that's in the early stages of slamming closed at an accelerating rate.

    IMHO: We will never prevent it being 'done to us' by trying to police ourselves.
    We don't have the 'collective' will, nor more importantly ........ the means to stop the morons before they bring it upon us.
    But I sincerely hope I'm wrong .........
     
  13. srandall25

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    What does AMA cover in terms of damage to someone's property or injury to someone else?
     
  14. Flyer91

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  15. SilentAV8R

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    AMA Liability coverage is $2.5 million. Medical for you is $25,000.

    Coverage is secondary unless there is no other insurance, then it is primary. But even if you have primary your policy may not cover you as you think it does or has relatively low limits. Many HO policies do not cover models at all.

    It's worth the $58 a year for me to have that as back up and to know that AMA is working to keep the FAA in check.
     
  16. Elginet

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    AMA only covers you when flying at a sanctioned field.
     
  17. Elginet

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    I've got an email into my insurance guy that does my house and cars. I'll let ya know what he says.
     
  18. SilentAV8R

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    I have posted this endlessly the last few days. This is absolutely WRONG!! AMA insurance covers a member NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE FLYING. Period. The main requirement is to be operating in accordance with the AMA Safety Code.

    Also, there is no such thing as an AMA "sanctioned field". Just does not exist. AMA does not, and never has, sanctioned fields.

    I really do not know how to make that any more clear.
     
  19. SilentAV8R

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    I look forward to hearing if you are in fact covered and at what limits. You did specify that this was for operation of your multicopter, right?
     
  20. htownphantom

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    I wanna see the answer also