Safe response to police officer who says to stop flying

[dkatz42]

So if my next door neighbors 10 year old boy accidentally threw his ball over the rear fence and it landed in my back yard, the boy is guilty of trespassing (actually the parents are rightfully guilty as they should have control over their children under the age of 18) and I have the right of calling the police and pressing charges?

While this may technically be true, in actuality I doubt it has ever happened. (Now if the kid is doing it on purpose, there's all manner of infractions that could be brought to bear.)

This is one of the reasons we give the judicial branch the power to toss cases--the law is a blunt instrument. Most of the time it works reasonably well.

 

[Buster2]

I recently did a little flying over an airpark in Palmdale next to the Skunkworks and after one battery, I was greeted by Security. They expressed concern that I was taking pictures of their active runway and once they discovered my flying camera, they asked me to delete the pictures I took.

I explained what I was doing and showed them some of the pictures I had taken and they were somewhat bewildered by the Phantom and asked me to leave.

I complied for two reasons. 1. I didn't want any problems because their concern was valid. And 2, I didn't want to create a bad impression for future Phantom Pilots.

It was quite a thrill to have some decent subjects and this experience gave me more ideas and a desire to take pictures resposibly without intruding and or hazzarding and people or property.

 

[Buster2]

Now as far as the future was concerned, I set forth a few protocalls to avoid bad public relations while capturing some very nice pictures/video.

First of all, I would respect people and property by maintaining a reasonable distance as not to disturb the natural order of things (no paparazzi) or business.

Secondly, I would try to inform people what I was doing so that they would not jump to conclusions. It seems more people see it as a military spy drone rather than a unique platform for getting incredible shots of subjects that would otherwise be near imposible to capture.

Well, it worked! You be the judge!

 

[Pull_Up]

<gets binoculars and views screen through them from 12 inches away>

Good job, lovely shots of the aircraft carrier in particular.

 

[iResq]

Weather permitting, I'm gonna try to film/photo the Chesapeake Bay Polar Bear Plunge tomorrow. I will set up on unused portion of the beach and never fly over or near the participants. I fully expect to be asked to stop as (back to OP question) the police have a right and duty to stop activities that could be considered dangerous, regardless of any actual written rule/law.

 

[CyberVet65]

Never ever argue with a LEO in the field! Do what is requested without any sass or attitude or you could find yourself restrained. If you wish to argue/discuss the issue , do it in court. Get the ticket and look up the law and take it to court. Often LEO's do not know the law. They respond to someone's call or complaint. This could be all about your "rights" but if you are "in the car" it is difficult to make your point.

 

[Scottrod]

<gets binoculars and views screen through them from 12 inches away>

Good job, lovely shots of the aircraft carrier in particular.

LMFAO. You said exactly what I was thinking when I looked at the pictures.

 

[kamkilla]

i would say yes sir, i will vacate but could you find the laws associated with your actions telling me to vacate?

 

[catattacksdog]

Cybernetic made a very valid point.
I am a police officer in a city in this country (the state or city is not important). We are required to be familiar with hundreds of laws,but with that being said we by no means know everything. When you are confronted by an officer, chances are he is there because someone called him. Meaning he is investigating a report by another citizen.

Please do not argue with anyone, or give anyone grief. It will get you in far more trouble than if you just go along with it. Let him do what he needs to do, ie warning citation or arrest. Then, go home and research your argument if you need to.

As far as me personally? I would respond (because I have to) but chances are I'm going to let YOU educate ME. Because despite what my bipolar half feels, I don't know everything. I would talk to you about how awesome your drone is, ask you if you know where/when you can or cannot fly, then explain why I came out in the first place. And if our conversation meets my level of satisfaction, I will wish you good day and happy flying.

then when I am questioned later about my actions, I can explain to the citizen and my supervisors how cooperative you were and our discussion on the matter.

In terms of trespassing? There isn't a snowballs chance in hell I am arresting or citing you. Or even hassling you about it.

 

[AllanVB]

Now as far as the future was concerned, I set forth a few protocalls to avoid bad public relations while capturing some very nice pictures/video.

First of all, I would respect people and property by maintaining a reasonable distance as not to disturb the natural order of things (no paparazzi) or business.

Secondly, I would try to inform people what I was doing so that they would not jump to conclusions. It seems more people see it as a military spy drone rather than a unique platform for getting incredible shots of subjects that would otherwise be near imposible to capture.

Well, it worked! You be the judge!

what happened to the pics?

 

[Qwadjok]

When it comes to flying in city parks, there may very well be city ordinances that prohibit such activities. Mostly due to safety. If an RC pilot crashed their plane into a group of people having a picnic, who do you think they will have their lawyers contact. The city. The city and many other jurisdictions have these ordinances in affect for this reason. Safety of the people who use these parks. With the rise in UAV pilots and the rise in defective UAV's falling out of the sky, you can see why they don't want someone flying in a park.

Your best bet is before flying, check with the city. Some parks now have signs that list what can't be done there. It is your job as a UAV pilot to know the laws and ordinances for where you fly. Ignorance is no excuse for not knowing the law.

I don't live in the city, but if I did, I would learn what the laws are and not just do what I want and claim I didn't know. You don't have the right. It is your responsibility to know the laws and do so in a safe manner. If UAV owners keep abusing these laws, the laws will get stiffer.

I film at public sporting events and have never had a complaint because I seek permission in advance and do so safely. You can see some of these events on my YouTube channel. http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCid_d3C ... Iew/videos

It all comes down to using common sense. If you work with the law, the law will work with you.

IMHO

QJ

 

[catattacksdog]

If you work with the law, the law works with you.

That is said perfectly.

 

[Buster2]

Thanks Pull_Up and to Allan VB, I'm still trying to figure out how to post pics....... I'm new to Forums.

I will say, this Forum site has given me a wealth of Knowledge that would other wise take some time and of course money (crashes)!

I'm soo impressed with the P2V that I spent days researching the P2 w/Gopro. I finally decided to get one and it's E/R.

 

[pbleic]

"The law prohibiting trespass to land extends beyond uninvited entry onto
another's land on foot or in a vehicle. Trespass also occurs when there is an
uninvited entry into the airspace above the property of another or by burrowing
beneath the property of another. This follows the old common law rule that land
ownership allows the owner the right to use and enjoy the extent of his real
property "up to the heavens and down to perdition." Therefore, the flying of a
model aircraft into the airspace owned by another without the landowner's prior
permission is a violation of the landowner's right to the quiet use and enjoyment
of his property and does constitute a trespass."
...
I'd suggest anyone who wants to know the likely legalities read the whole thing. The law is very often not what we think it is. Whether or not we agree with it is immaterial.

IANAL, but I know that this is much more complex than the AMA statement. To get a more nuanced view, read this (or at least the relevant section): http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R42940.pdf
The Supreme Court rejected, in Causby, that the landowner's rights extended to the heavens. In fact, Causby created the concept of a public airway that is now regulated by the FAA. They held that “the landowner owns at least as much
space above the ground as he can occupy or use in connection with the land. The fact that he does
not occupy it in a physical sense—by the erection of building and the like—is not material.”

Read the whole thing, which goes into privacy, nuisance, etc.

 

[jwuman]

[youtube]http://youtu.be/pDId6Du-yoE[/youtube]
Now more knuckle heads causing the wrong publicity here in CT USA...police dont even know the law or lack of a law, but that being said,,,, flying over a crash scence with a dead body visible is plain wrong and piss poor judgement. this will certainly stir debate at the state govt level and will certainly cause one of our elected incompetent to create more knee jerk laws....

Pilots use your head when flying these, the more bad rediculous publicity we get will certainly end up ruining the hobby for everyone....Hartford, CT PD supervisor in video quotes "the PV2 pilot broke a federal law"? what federal law? the pilot should have been charged with interfering with police since they had to divert attention from the scene to this knuclehead flying a PV2 over the dead body sticking out of the mangled car, real smart guy,,,,,have some decency ,,,that was rediculous...total lack of common sense.....

 

[Buster2]

I finally figured out how to post my pics right.

 

[Buster2]

Oh, I almost forgot...... If all else fails...... tell the Officer "this isn't the droid your looking for"!

 

[Mactab]

That's great Buster. Now all you need to do is work out how to put your posts in the correct place(s)
Nice pics all the same.

 

[Scottrod]

Oh, I almost forgot...... If all else fails...... tell the Officer "this isn't the droid your looking for"!

Hahaha that's funny

 

[raynardo]

Cybernetic made a very valid point.
I am a police officer in a city in this country (the state or city is not important). We are required to be familiar with hundreds of laws,but with that being said we by no means know everything. When you are confronted by an officer, chances are he is there because someone called him. Meaning he is investigating a report by another citizen.

Please do not argue with anyone, or give anyone grief. It will get you in far more trouble than if you just go along with it. Let him do what he needs to do, ie warning citation or arrest. Then, go home and research your argument if you need to.

As far as me personally? I would respond (because I have to) but chances are I'm going to let YOU educate ME. Because despite what my bipolar half feels, I don't know everything. I would talk to you about how awesome your drone is, ask you if you know where/when you can or cannot fly, then explain why I came out in the first place. And if our conversation meets my level of satisfaction, I will wish you good day and happy flying.

then when I am questioned later about my actions, I can explain to the citizen and my supervisors how cooperative you were and our discussion on the matter.

In terms of trespassing? There isn't a snowballs chance in hell I am arresting or citing you. Or even hassling you about it.

My third flight of my P2V was off my backyard early one morning to get the correct light so that I could get some great shots of my backyard. I live on a hill which has a very steep slope to the neighbors about 40' below me.

The flight lasted but a few minutes and I got the shots I wanted.

About 20 minutes later as I was getting ready to take a shower, two police officers knocked on my door. They stated that they were there because one of the neighbors below me claimed that I was filming inside her bathroom window while she was taking a shower.

Before I go any further, here a few points:

• 1. If I was interested in seeing nude women, why would I choose a 50 year old through a bathroom window?
  2. I could easily see the most nubile nude bodies doing the most interesting things in HiDef for free on the Internet.
  3. I could much more easily use my 1000mm lens from my backyard if I wanted to. I don't.
  4. How could she tell which direction my P2V's camera was pointing?

Nevertheless, I invited the officers into my home office to view the shots I had taken on my computer. First off, they were impressed with my home office! Then they wanted to know all about the P2V. At that point one of the two officers left in his patrol car (they each came in their own). Watching the video the remaining officer was content that I was actually only shooting in the direction of my backyard.

Still, he filled out an incident report getting all my personal information. After which he left, and drove down to the reporting party's residence to inform her that she was totally mistaken.

The officer admitted that he knew nothing regarding any laws or regulations regarding UAV flights. I gave him a briefing, which basically said that there aren't any real laws on the books where I live.

And that was that. I was courteous and obliging. It worked for me. And know that I'm a contrarian at heart. . .