I feel your pain. Now go to work so you can pay your taxes and have the government tell you what you can do for fun.
Sad Day Indeed had to sell my P3P
- Thread starter PhotoGuyAaron
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Sorry to see you leave... but the people need to understand that liability is the same for anyone using it "privately" as well.
Just because I'm flying it as a "hobbyist" doesn't mean that I won't be liable for it hitting someone's head.
If my daughter is flying a toy helicopter and it hits somebody in the eyeball, makes them blind in one eye, I'll be out a million dollars.
So for the poster that is giving it up solely for liability purposes... well, the liability was exactly the same as if he was in the back yard and it went on a fly-away and hit somebody.
Just because I'm flying it as a "hobbyist" doesn't mean that I won't be liable for it hitting someone's head.
If my daughter is flying a toy helicopter and it hits somebody in the eyeball, makes them blind in one eye, I'll be out a million dollars.
So for the poster that is giving it up solely for liability purposes... well, the liability was exactly the same as if he was in the back yard and it went on a fly-away and hit somebody.
People hate to hear it, but it is (almost) 2016 and doing photos and videos with a Phantom is not much of a business. DJI is going to sell a million units this Christmas and a lot of people have similar aspirations. They buy a Phantom and think that a few jobs will pay for the unit.
It's like regular photography. Having a cheap dSLR has not been enough for a long time unless you are really, really good at selling. Too many people are chasing too few dollars. On the low end, clients like realtors are just going to get their own Phantoms to snap RE pics. And on the high end, clients are looking for much more in terms of quality and professionalism (insurance/etc.)
In order to get paid well, a skill needs to have more demand than supply. Phantom photography is not it.
What is more likely to continue to happen is that people already doing certain jobs incorporate a Phantom into their workflow. The guy doing roof /solar panel inspections will just do the flight himself. Architects/construction people monitoring progress do it themselves. Etc. That is mostly how people are doing it right now. A stand alone drone business needs to have something very interesting on offer to see success.
It's like regular photography. Having a cheap dSLR has not been enough for a long time unless you are really, really good at selling. Too many people are chasing too few dollars. On the low end, clients like realtors are just going to get their own Phantoms to snap RE pics. And on the high end, clients are looking for much more in terms of quality and professionalism (insurance/etc.)
In order to get paid well, a skill needs to have more demand than supply. Phantom photography is not it.
What is more likely to continue to happen is that people already doing certain jobs incorporate a Phantom into their workflow. The guy doing roof /solar panel inspections will just do the flight himself. Architects/construction people monitoring progress do it themselves. Etc. That is mostly how people are doing it right now. A stand alone drone business needs to have something very interesting on offer to see success.
This says it all:
“If the individual takes the pictures or videos or gathers other information as part of a hobby or recreational activity, then a later decision to sell some or all of those pictures, videos or other information” would not change the character of the operation and “no FAA authorization for that operation would be required.”
“If the individual takes the pictures or videos or gathers other information as part of a hobby or recreational activity, then a later decision to sell some or all of those pictures, videos or other information” would not change the character of the operation and “no FAA authorization for that operation would be required.”
We can still fly in the parks here, they even put in a small paved airstrip out in a large open field near me. The regional park is very large (about 6000' across) and I fly there for practice a lot. It so sucks that the knee-jerk reaction by many local administrations is to ban flying all together.
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Where is this quoted from? All the pro photographers I work with have a very different understanding of the law for commercial sale. Some of them are heavily invested in the commercial drone market.
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Aaron,
It's a small world. I'll bet you shipped to Illinois. This is Tim. I do hope you find a way around the rules or at least a way to continue to film while flying. Your work is solid. Being a chief marketing officer, I look at creative all day. I have seen it all. I really liked your work. (Even the grounded versions!) If I ever need a shoot done in your area, I'll call you. I am still on the other side of the world but will call once everything arrives.
This is a strange first introduction post, but it will have to do. Greetings to all of you. I am a relative newbie only flying recreational crafts. This is a major upgrade and to be honest, I'm a touch nervous!
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Tim so glad you found this board it has been invaluable to me. Some really good helpful people and a great place to get feedback on your work. I was going to share it with you on your return. Best Phantom site by far! Safe travels. Your bird should not take more than 6 more days to get to IL. Hopefully you get back soon.
- Aaron
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He's taken it from the same place I did in #11 above: Sad Day Indeed had to sell my P3P | DJI Phantom Forum
It's from the FAA and specifically referring to taking newsworthy images while hobby flying and selling them.
As a roadway inspector I started taking photographs from a simple drone about four years ago. I applied simple "common sense" rules to keep away from pedestrian and vehicular traffic. The photos and videos were very useful for monitoring project progress in addition to the ground-level photos and video normally obtained. All of a sudden many contractors and inspectors "discovered" aerial photography and the practice exploded as contractors and clients realized this option to traditional aerial photography already used.
As a result of recent restrictions applied by the FAA my company took the initiative and obtained the 333 Exemption. As a larger firm they can afford to pay for what the current criteria is to use UAVs.
I stopped by a local flight school and asked about the costs associated with obtaining a private pilot license...about $55.000. Ouch. The flight school said they were not aware of an FAA certificate that would meet the requirements of the 333 Exemption. PhotoGuyAaron already pointed out the insurance costs.
But Recce3 did have a valid point Aaron...the current guidelines are evolving quickly in response to the proliferation of drones being purchased and flown and probably pressures from the aviation industry...some of whom are/were reliant on firms paying for aerial photography products. Now many of those previous clients can obtain their own aerial photography. There is and will be push back against the FAA from many different sectors.
I agree you should keep your Phantom and keep flying to maintain and grow your proficiency as "pilot-in-command." Knowing how to fly your aircraft in a variety of circumstances and environments...like without GPS assistance...will put you ahead of the "competition." Flight logs, maintenance records and "stick time" could give you an edge. Fly the aircraft...don't just go through the steps...FLY IT...push the limits within reason. And...enjoy the opportunity you have to fly...some still dream to do what you are ready to stop doing.
And that...as they say...is my two cents worth.
People talk about all this massive savings in efficiency that drones supposedly provide, and then they whine that it costs $5K or $10K or $20K.
If it was true that drones did provide all this massive efficiency, no one would complain that much that it costs them $20K to set up because it would still be a ridiculoulsy good deal. That's the reality of the matter. Businesses that see value don't mind dropping $20K for something that will make them even more money. And businesses that think $20K is a ton of money are clearly not getting any big benefits from using drones. They might be trying to justify their hobby by rationalizing it as some sort of business use case.
Perhaps you asked about commercial pilots license or something else.
To get a basic PPL in the US, it costs about $10K. Some people manage to do it a lot cheaper if they use fractional ownership/leasing arrangements.
The reason why FAA is currently using traditional PPL is because that is the only thing that actually exists. It demonstrates that a person has a basic understanding of "road rules for the sky" if you will. It is also something FAA has control over. They can yank your licence if you do something stupid with the drone, for example.
But as you pointed out, these are temporary rules while they figure out actual rules. For a long time, FAA basically refused to grant any 333 exemptions. At least they're opening up the sky and letting people get in. And they are monitoring how the current fleet of 333 holders fare.
Let's not forget one other thing: there's TONS of PPL guys out there. RC guys may not like it, but there's more than enough PPL people who fly RC who don't need to do much to get their 333 exemption.
I paid under $5,500 total when I trained and tested for my pilot license in 2007, and I know you can still do it for around that or at least under $7,500 if you're not flying brand new aircraft. I trained in Cessna 152s and 172s that were built in the 70s and 80s.
If you've ever wanted to fly, and you want to get into business using your Phantom, then you've found a pretty good reason/excuse to finally get your pilot's license
Witold,
I stand corrected on the cost and you are correct, the brochure pegs the cost of the private pilot training and FAA check ride as $10,345.00. The $55,000.00 not only includes commercial, but certified flight instructor as well.
So $20,000.00 (cost of drone, PPL, insurance and other start-up costs) may not be unreasonable in this day and age to start a small business.
And I don't think anyone would disagree there are PPL who fly R/C. But I would think those PPL and long-standing R/C fliers are more than slightly irritated at all those who fly in blatant disregard for even the simplest of rules which have resulted in the latest FAA response.
Thank you for the clarification...gave me the opportunity to get the numbers correct. I guess that means Aaron should still consider not selling his drone...it may get more cost friendly in the end.
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I am very sorry I did not see that this only related to hobbyist who captured news worthy content. I thought it related to ALL hobbyist content that then could be sold later. Sorry if I mislead anyone with this.
As far as commercial use, the fewer the barriers to entry, the worse it gets. As a business owner, you want it to be hard for the competition to enter and compete with you. You want most people to say that it is too hard, too expensive, too much time involved. You do not want every kid with a Phantom undercutting you. Strict regulation/high barriers to entry are generally good for businesses like this.
The biggest thing that hurt this hobby is the "responsible" hobbyists who draw imaginary calamities anytime they see someone doing something "irresponsible." But not because they themselves repost (aka: promote) the heck out of video in question posting it everywhere, and adding their 2 cents how irresponsible something in the video is. These scarecrows are the ones feeding paranoia that quads will start falling on people's heads everywhere and they are the ones promoting (reposting) all the bad behavior.
It doesn't matter anymore, though. It's too late. At this point, we see what we get in terms of rules and that's all we can do. No use stressing about something we can't affect, IMO. It is what it is.
I understand that a couple of guys in WA State claim that they are selling photo services (editing and production) and there for the device that the content comes from is irrelevant. Also, as I have said many times here, get away from people.
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Anyone can sell anything to anyone. (Of course if the product you sell is legal)
You don't have to be professional to sell a photo. If you are the only one who took a picture of a celebrity getting killed, the media WILL buy it don't worry.
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This is the point to this: it is ILLEGAL to sell drone photography commercially unless you have an exemption, pilots license, and commerciall Inshurance. I think you missed the point of most of thr posts.
