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Rules and regulations in delray beach

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by eturk49, Mar 26, 2016.

  1. eturk49

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    I was planning to fly my drone over the beach in delray in south Florida. I know that I am farther than five miles from the airport but I have been seeing helicopters and single engine planes flying over head. The planes were define lay flying under 400ft. Does anyone know if there are any rules about flying in south Florida?


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  2. alokbhargava

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    Even if there are no restrictions, the moment you spot any aircraft at beach, you should immediately lower your P3. In case you see them frequently, avoid flying your P3 there.
     
  3. NormanNormal

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    Not sure in Delray but on Palm Beach Island they have a strict ban. I was taking shots at the beach and within 10 mins an officer approached and me shut me down. He explained the fine is $250 but I got off with a warning. Took my info, said im in the system, if I go there again I'll get the citation. Also I agree with alok, watch for low flying planes and helicopters. Had a few whiz by at 250ft over the water...
     
  4. rcheing

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    I flew at Delray Beach's coastline south of Atlantic Blvd yesterday. Everyone seemed curious and I was for the most part busy showing of the P3 to some folks. I made a video of my family and I took the P3 out about a quarter mile and made a video of a nice yacht passing by. The altitude of my flights were between 50-100 feet. I saw a guy on a motorized paraglider, one helicopter and a small replica of a warbird that scared the crap out of me because he seemed to be coasting at idle at about 100-200 feet and I thought the guy was having engine problems. Eventually he climbed altitude though. I wasn't in the air when these aircraft came by, except for the paraglider guy, but I lowered to 20 feet and stayed away.
     
  5. NormanNormal

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    Sounds awesome can you post some of the footage? Or at least a private link? If not no worries.
     
  6. rcheing

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    Please excuse my videos while I try and learn some video editing skills. However, here goes:




    I used the automatic video settings with a ND16 filter. I tried shooting in LOG the other day, but my editing came out horrible. :) I still need to learn Adobe Premiere and video editing in general. By comparison, here's my photo editing. This one is right above Bocaire Country Club between Congress Ave and Military Ave in Boca Raton.

    Bocaire Country Club - Shaddock Lane.jpg
     
  7. NormanNormal

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    Great footage and nice photo. Looks like you had fun. Glad you didn't have any trouble. I'm still bummed out that I got banned from the beach.
     
  8. rcheing

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    I'm wondering if they could enforce that fine being that air jurisdiction is the control of the FAA. I honestly don't think they could ban you from Palm Beach Island. From what I hear, the courts are having a hard time upholding the fines that the FAA has been handing out to some folks.

    Could some other folks chime in please? I would think it's probably better and cheaper to just pay $250 than to have to go through the time and costs of going to court, but then what precedent are you setting? Hmmm.
     
    NormanNormal likes this.
  9. NormanNormal

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    Maybe not but I am not taking a chance. I don't want the trouble or potential trouble. They shut me down within 10 mins. It's obvious that quad pilots are not wanted there. When I say banned from the island I mean flying there, of course. They told me I would be fined if I flew again, that is the exact way they said it. If you google palm beach drone ban there are some articles about it. It says the 2nd offense is $500.
     
  10. rcheing

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    Just read an article which talks about the ordinance Palm Beach Island has which states no aircraft should fly 1000 feet or below while over Palm Beach. I had no idea a city could create an ordinance like this. It seems they are getting into FAA territory. I'm with you that it's not worth the hassle, but at the same time I'm questioning their legal reach.

    If anyone is knowledgeable in the subject, here is a link to the official Palm Beach ordinance: Municode Library

    EDIT: Here's another article which states "Since the sky is controlled by the Federal Aviation Administration, the most that cities and counties can legally do is regulate where drones can land and take off. City officials can't set rules restricting where drones can fly once they are airborn."

    It looks like Delray will be the next city to try and ban drones. Though the article says that Boyton Beach tried but failed and Boca Raton has a ban from launching in city parks. However, yesterday I flew the Boca Raton coastline from Spanish River Blvd to almost Palmetto Park which is within 3 miles of Boca Raton airport. I was able to successfully secure permission from the Boca Raton Airport tower. The controller had to check with her "superiors" because she said a recent letter was given to them but then she called me back to let me know it was OK to fly in that area. Furthermore, since it was a Sunday, she said that if she could not contact her managers than she was just going to tell me it was OK to fly.
     
    #10 rcheing, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  11. tcope

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    According to the news articles I could find, the city is imposing general aircraft rule to drones. Here is what it appears they are using:

    Sec. 14-31. - Minimum altitude.
    Exclusive of taking off and landing and except as specifically permitted in this Code, no aircraft shall be operated within the police jurisdiction of the town at an altitude of less than 1,000 feet

    According to the news, the city stated they were asked if drones could monitor the eroding beach and the above ordnance was used to say, no.

    But review the ordinance:
    "Exclusive of taking off and landing..."

    So you can launch and land a drone within the city.... it's specifically allowed. Then read the ending part:
    "... no aircraft shall be operated within the police jurisdiction of the town at an altitude of less than 1,000 feet"

    The local police have jurisdiction over any/all aircraft flying under 1000'? I don't think so (say Federal US Code). IMHO that ordinance is not only vague but it's not worded very well. For example:

    "Sec. 14-34. - Taking off, landing.
    It shall be unlawful to take off or land any aircraft in the town other than at a location duly designated for such activity.

    Designated by whom? Is this designation the same for all aircraft? Or perhaps different spaces exist for airplanes and drones. Why can't a property owned designate his/her own land for a drone?

    IMHO, its all crap. But this is certainly not the first time a city has attempted to intimidate drone fliers. It won't be the last.
     
  12. rcheing

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    This is exactly why I think this law could be challenged, but to have to go through all that trouble though.
     
  13. xgaul

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    Local cities don't own the airspace. So they can't do **** about flying. If it's a park that has banned drones on their property then you can't launch or land from there but they can't stop you from flying over. Even if it's only 50feet above ground


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  14. liam milano

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    Hey there I'm trying to put together an intro video for a live music videos series I'm filming in Delray Beach, and I wanted to do splice some cool drone shots from the beach to downtown at day and night. I don't own a drone (and wanted to know the rules about flying in Delray) so I googled and found this thread. Would you happen to have some footage or be interested in shooting some?
    Thanks,
    Liam
     
  15. joet

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    I would argue that the FAA's position is that State and Local governments also cannot legislate operational areas. Apparently, case law would permit "land use" restrictions - limiting where drones can take off and land.


    Read the PDF located here: FAA Issues Fact Sheet on State and Local UAS Laws

    Some excerpts (emphasis mine):

    EXAMPLES OF STATE AND LOCAL LAWS FOR WHICH CONSULTATION WITH
    THE FAA IS RECOMMENDED
    • Operational UAS restrictions on flight altitude, flight paths; operational bans; any regulation
    of the navigable airspace. For example – a city ordinance banning anyone from operating
    UAS within the city limits, within the airspace of the city, or within certain distances of
    landmarks. Federal courts strictly scrutinize state and local regulation of overflight. City of
    Burbank v. Lockheed Air Terminal, 411 U.S. 624 (1973); Skysign International, Inc. v. City
    and County of Honolulu, 276 F.3d 1109, 1117 (9th Cir. 2002); American Airlines v. Town of
    Hempstead, 398 F.2d 369 (2d Cir. 1968); American Airlines v. City of Audubon Park, 407
    F.2d 1306 (6th Cir. 1969).

    Congress has recognized the national responsibility for regulating air commerce. Federal
    control is intensive and exclusive.
    Planes do not wander about in the sky like vagrant
    clouds. They move only by federal permission, subject to federal inspection, in the hands
    of federally certified personnel and under an intricate system of federal commands. The
    moment a ship taxies onto a runway it is caught up in an elaborate and detailed system of
    controls. It takes off only by instruction from the control tower, it travels on prescribed
    beams, it may be diverted from its intended landing, and it obeys signals and orders. Its
    privileges, rights, and protection, so far as transit is concerned, it owes to the Federal
    Government alone and not to any state government.
    ” Northwest Airlines v. State of
    Minnesota, 322 U.S. 292, 303 (1944)(Jackson, R., concurring).

    Air traffic must be regulated at the national level. Without uniform equipment
    specifications, takeoff and landing rules, and safety standards, it would be impossible to
    operate a national air transportation system.” Gustafson v. City of Lake Angeles, 76 F.3d
    778, 792-793 (6th Cir. 1996)(Jones, N., concurring).

    “[W]hen we look to the historical impetus for the FAA, its legislative history, and the
    language of the [FAA] Act, it is clear that Congress intended to invest the Administrator
    of the Federal Aviation Administration with the authority to enact exclusive air safety
    standards. Moreover, the Administrator has chosen to exercise this authority by issuing
    such pervasive regulations that we can infer a preemptive intent to displace all state law on
    the subject of air safety.
    ” Montalvo at 472.

     
    #15 joet, Sep 10, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016