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Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is considered)?

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision Discussion' started by KenKopter, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. KenKopter

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    Hello to all,

    I (raw newbie) started a thread on "Simplest Solution for FPV Glasses/Goggle Flying?" at....

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8774

    We seem to be down to 2 good choices, with each of us buying 1 and we will leave reviews there.

    Along the way, I raised the topic of "DIY Gimbals" (i.e., for idiots). To avoid taking that thread off-topic, I am starting this one.

    --

    Pull_Up said there were two basic choices, one by Rotorpixel...

    http://www.rotorpixel.com

    The other by DroneExpert...

    http://dronexpert.nl/product/dji-vision-gimbal-2/

    Pull_Up, you referred me to this post that you had made, in response to my worry about RP's statement (on their site) about video-blockage of antenna...

    http://www.rotorpixel.com/contact/

    I'm guessing that you meant this post...

    viewtopic.php?p=92020#p92020

    You said...

    What's "hardcore FPV?"

    I am running "totally stock" (although not for much longer, it would seem). Are you saying that I'd need to install some kind of antenna to get around this problem?

    In your post in the original "glasses" thread, you said you beat your wifi distance records (with Rotorpixel installed) and that you had installed your Horizon helical antenna to extend range BEFORE that, so it should be apples to apples testing. However...

    Wouldn't that new antenna eliminate the ORIGINAL-antenna-blocking problem since IT would no longer suffer from the partial blockage. Or not?

    In other words, doesn't this modification avoid the blocking problem. Or, more likely, am I missing something?

    This newbie is getting mixed up.

    --

    By the way, I noticed at least 5 or 6 posts by you, just to that thread on that day. This post of a video by you is a great demo of what I need to stabilize our Phantom 2 Vision in our tradewinds down here...

    viewtopic.php?p=92021#p92021

    ... amazing display of stabilization!

    I hadn't noticed how much you post in these forums until you mentioned "a" post by you. Ha! That was quite a hunt. ;-)

    Seriously, you are truly an amazing treasure here! Thank you for all your help!

    --

    One thing that REALLY worries me about Rotorpixel, though, is that people who are posting on the gigantic Rotorpixel thread, the one at...

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6508&start=2510

    Some were projecting late-June to July, then August, for deliveries if ordered today. Later, a post mentioned that none were shipped this past week, and is guessing at 2015 delivery.

    Companies with this type of production problems either turn a single sticking point around quickly or they just keep struggling. Even best case looks like more than 2 months, though, given the backlog.

    I'd like to get going ASAP so we don't have to re-shoot as much vid later (I'm sure the difference is going to be big, no matter which we choose, so we'll end up wanting to "re-do" when we see what "could have been").

    --

    I found the Taco Toy gimbal you mentioned...

    http://www.taco-rc.com/servlet/the-Brus ... Categories

    Looks OK in the vid, but then again... it would. ;-)

    I worry, too, about the email address... tacotoy@gmail.com

    Gmail?

    And not much about them online...

    Sounds like a small operation, I'd be pretty worried about the long-term quality and the support of the product.

    --

    All in all, your alternate recommendation (DronExpert from the Netherlands) is looking like the way to go. I had noted in my earlier post that it seems to compare favorably (although it's more expensive, but that's OK) to Rotorpixel...


    There's a huge thread on this topic, too...

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5516

    They've had several months of experience to smooth the bugs out, it would seem to me. And folks are indicating about 4-6 weeks to get their order.

    Given the comments above re RP's delivery problems, I've done a little more digging. Reviews by users in the DE thread here seem good, although there's a little hot-gluing needed to firm it up, it seems...

    viewtopic.php?p=85088#p85088

    But basically, those who've been using it for a while have what they want, a stable shot...

    viewtopic.php?p=88690#p88690

    Users who comment in this YT video are happy...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-KSYxV6hNk

    Another review...

    http://vidoz.com.ua/video/7qsHwgh2YO9.html

    And Support seems excellent...

    viewtopic.php?p=92735#p92735

    But, of course, inevitably along comes a post like this to worry me all over again...

    viewtopic.php?p=88166#p88166

    I really dislike these type of posts. But a more serious one questions whether it cuts distance...

    viewtopic.php?p=92923#p92923

    ... followed by others who seem happily unchanged.

    All in all, folks seem happy with it.

    --

    OK, getting down to bottom line and hoping that the goggles and the gimbal arrive within 6-8 weeks, which do YOU suggest, Pull_Up - and anyone else who knows about these things?

    Based on general consensus from the 2 monster gimbal threads, one on Rotorpixel and the other on DronExpert...

    Is there a compelling reason NOT to order the DronExpert?

    Sorry for the length -- hopefully, it serves as a summary starting point of 2 massive threads, for those just reaching this point.

    I suppose, basically, I need Pull_Up, who's been so helpful to a few other newbies and myself on the other thread, to bless the direction I'm leaning. All opinions, of course, are more than welcome. :)

    Thanks very much, in advance.

    All the best,
    Ken

    P.S. And a related question...

    Inevitably, I can see the need for greater distance. So, should those Horizon antennae be installed first or does it matter and are they the best "DIY for Dummies" product to extend range significantly?
     
  2. Pull_Up

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    I haven't used a Dronexpert gimbal, but I chose not to buy it due to both the costand for other reasons not directly related to the simple question of "does it stablilize the footage", so I can't comment on it. You've already seen my views on the gimbal I have got, but they are no good to you in a comparison exercise.

    Regarding wifi performance... "hardcore FPV" means what some of the guys on the threads devoted to pushing the P2V wifi distance are doing: flying beyond visual range as far as they can - someone has just done an unconfirmed 5km distance, for example. I'm not interested in that - for my filming purposes I'm more than happy with a completely solid 2000ft of range. My stock extender gave me 1000ft of wifi range with a stock aircraft. I modified it to accept a Horizon FPV 2.4GHz 9dB helical antenna and without changing the aircraft I more than doubled that. There had been speculation that fitting a third-party gimbal with a motor over one of the wifi antennas on the camera would degrade wifi performance. After attaching the Rotorpixel I noticed no negative impact at all - in fact my first range testing flight with the gimbal improved on my previous best by a couple of hundred feet! So I was meaning that if you install a third party gimbal and your completely stock setup does see a drop in wifi performance, fitting an antenna similar to the one I did on the range extender only should completely negate any drop you might see and then vastly improve the range in any event. I didn't have a totally stock setup with which to test, hence my caveats about my wifi performance. You may find that if you currently get about 1000ft of range and you fit a gimbal you still get 1000ft of range, or you might then get only 750ft. Adding a third party antenna on the range extender only would not only recover you back to 1000ft, but then take you further than you got before, even with a gimbal attached. Hope that's clearer.

    If a prime driver is getting going soon, then dronexpert are looking at about 4 to 6 week lead times, Rotorpixel are quoting 4-8 weeks, but that's from when they ramp up production and there's no date. Taco Toy have just released a plug-and-play version of their 3d printed gimbal and it's shipping with less than a week delay. Your desire for other qualities like durability, future transferability, support and parts availability, etc, etc, may or may not enter into the equation, too.

    Bottom line is all the gimbals should, with varying degrees of tweaking, get you nice stable footage once properly installed. The other factors then come into play for your final decision.

    Just to throw a spanner in the works there are rumours of DJI bringing out a gimbal attached to a Vision+ or Vision 3... Nothing official announced yet, but the rumour mill is turning. Personally I doubt any DJI Vision gimbal would be retro-fittable to existing Visions, but if the new version is real then it makes sense that it would have a shiny gimbal and perhaps better camera...?!

    Enjoy your decision-making!
     
  3. johnbowen

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    Just got my Dronexpert gimbal. First flight, checked stability, took it up to about 50 feet. Descended. The P2V came down much more quickly, perhaps due to increased weight? I had a moderately "bumpy" landing, but not enough that it would normally have caused any damage. Dronexpert mounting plate now has a crack running about 2/3 way down the plate, parallel to one of the legs, and appeared ready to break all the way through. If it had done so than it would have been unable to have it rest on the legs I've taped it up with some gorilla tape as a stop gap measure.

    Also seeing a huge decrease in camera range. Not certain why I'm seeing such a decrease, but my camera range has dropped from 12-1300 feet before the gimbal, to now 200 feet at best. Same location, direction of flight, altitude. I had changed my antenna, which was easily done, without drama, with some suggestions for antenna, etc from a knowledgeable forum member. I made the changes after I had read that gimbals could effect video range. I'm confident I did not screw up the antenna install, having worked previously on a good number of delicate, sensitive electronic devices. I've tried it with the antennas oriented in every configuration possible, and have tried three different antenna; no noticeable improvement in range. All antenna had shown moderate to significant improvement when used by others. Not me.

    Other than the antenna, it was raining lightly when I tested the range after the gimbal install.

    A bit more for you to deliberate on.
     
  4. dastagg

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    I flew mine yesterday for some construction photos with the Dronexpert gimbal on mine. I flew to a height of 600 foot with absolutely no issue and was showing about 300 foot in distance away from me besides the height. I had no issue with communication with the camera. Have not flown to see how far it goes before losing communication, but have done this height and distance with no known issue. Can't say why the plate on the mount of the Dronexpert would be broken without a crash or other since there is no pressure on the mounting plate and only rests on the legs. May need to call Dronexpert and they have excellent customer service and may would wish to discuss your problems you are having with distance also? Don't believe you are experiencing the norm with your issues. I love my gimbal so far, but looking hard at moving up to the s1000 DJI with a real camera attached (Canon 5d Mk III) for some really nice end shots and views, but still unsure as of yet of what is needed to get everything I need out of it. I am working with an emergency response team to do work with them at my company and they will foot the bill if it will do all I need to do with them. The Phantom 2 Vision works as it is but wish to have better control with better resolution. Just now starting to investigate this machine and is a pretty hefty investment, so I need to insure it will do what is needed.
     
  5. johnbowen

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    I'm considering ordering an LHCP antenna, etc from horizon antenna. I wonder how long for them to get it to my hotel in Hawaii.

    Frustrating.

    Others have reported the mount cracking.
     
  6. Pull_Up

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  7. gpauk

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    FPVLR makes, IMHO, the best add on antennas you can get - also posts in here:

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9993
     
  8. Sledge

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider


    I'm in the same boat regarding an upgraded platform. The s1000 is quite a system...but I feel it's size is just too big ....it may be perceived as imposing and dangerous in some settings. And I also like the turnkey nature of a P2V style bird.....so I am seriously considering waiting for the Flying Eyes HX3 (or possibly the smaller QX2) both are much "finished" and "competent" looking and less DIYish.
     
  9. NEILS

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    With regards to dronexpert gimbal, I have one and it seems to work fine for now!, will it last?, to be honest I doubt it due to design, if the choice had been there when I bought mine between de or rotorpixel I would have chosen rotorpixel, its like anything new it takes time to iron any problems out, rotorpixel seems to have a lot more going for it with regards to a proven design and can be upgraded and adapted to fit other cameras.

    As far as I'm concerned its a no brainer
     
  10. KenKopter

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    Hi to all,

    Thnanks very much for some terrific feedback! :)

    --

    Pull_Up, judging from reports of possible distance-loss with both versions, I'll be using a range extender to make sure we don't have the problem. We could use the extra distance, in any event

    Those 5KM flights of "hard core FVP" sound incredible, but with 15-20 minute of flight time, I'd surely plunk ours into the Caribbean Sea sooner or later. ;-)

    Instead, a nice doubling of distance, which is what you report, is just what we need. Could you tell me, please what exactly to order, and where? I noticed from this spreadsheet...

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ring#gid=0

    that you bought the Horizon FPR Blackhawk Micro 2.4 (helical) AND the Horizon FPR Blackhawk Micro 5.8 (helical) for the Remote Controller. They seem to come as a package. Do I order this two-component set?...

    http://horizonfpvantennas.mybigcommerce ... nds-kit-6/

    They have several options in their Phantom 2 Vision section...

    http://horizonfpvantennas.mybigcommerce ... -2-vision/

    The "Vision Extreme" kit sounds interesting (hey, it says "Extreme" ;-) )...

    http://horizonfpvantennas.mybigcommerce ... treme-kit/

    Is there something in there that is DIY-easy and gives even more range?

    Whichever, I'd want the gold version, since salt does a real number on copper/steel. But which of the above do I order, with the proviso of easy-install?

    Also, a question -- does this run of the drone's battery power or do I need batteries, recharger, etc. for it? I don't think so, just want to be sure I have all that we need.

    OK, that will wrap that up. I hope.

    P.S. on this...

    FPVLR's "6.5 turn LHCP" gets 1000m, which would be nice....

    http://www.fpvlr.com/store/index.php?mo ... ategoria=8

    But I assume you chose Horizon because FPVLR is a trickier install?

    http://www.fpvlr.com/store/dettaglio_ar ... rticolo=29

    --

    The gimbal decision was harder. johnbowen reported a cracked mounting plate with his DronExpert, due to a hard landing (and adds that others have reported the same). That's not good, just something that should not happen. He also reports serious distance loss, although he had changed antenna, too.

    We don't crash (anymore ;-) ). We just catch the drone by bringing it down to 4-5 feet and then grab hold of a the landing gear. With 2 people, it's just smoother and easier to do. We take off the same way (in reverse), avoiding the sand on beaches.

    --

    dastagg, on the other hand, reports no distance or cracking issues with DE. That s100 DJI sure looks sweet, dastagg. We're happy, though, with our video quality for web work. It will probably eat at me though until I surrender. ;-)

    --

    NEILS pulls no punches. He has a DronExpert and recommends the Rotorpixel as a "no-brainer."

    Heck, how could I NOT choose the RP after that? That pretty much nailed it down, along with Pull_Up's recommendation. So...

    I've contacted RP for an estimated ship date (used their form and placed a phone call to Keri Wilk, left a message). If it's more than 3 months, I'll order the 3DPOWER Plug-N Play Brushless Gimbal as a stop-gap. Some folks seem to have trouble setting it up....

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10651&hilit=3DPOWER+Gimbal

    But it seems to get the job done, so should improve things for the time being. They ship quickly. It will be fine while I wait for the RP to come.

    Naturally, I can't buy direct from them, since they only take PayPal (they really are a small operation), so I've emailed them directly to bypass the order form.

    I'm telling you, this industry does not make it easy! ;-)

    Thanks very much, everyone. Just need some answers re the range-extender and I'll order the right one. Hopefully, that'll be that...

    Longer range, smooth vids and goggles. It's going to be even greater than it is now!

    Eventually.

    All the best,
    Ken
     
  11. Pull_Up

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    Hello! I mainly bought Horizon because they are in the UK, therefore shipping and delivery time was a factor. The installation should be identical - making an external antenna point on the range extender upon which to stick your antenna of choice (or try a few!).

    I bought the "Super Kit" because it came with all cables and fittings to mod the range extender and transmitter and, if I wanted to, antennas to fit to the aircraft for extra range. I don't need more than I've got, so I haven't modded the aircraft at all. I'm keeping hold of the 2 skew planars though because you never know when they'll come in handy! If you don't want the aircraft end bits then you need a 2.4 Blackhawk (and possibly a 5.8 Blackhawk, but see below) and the relevant cables. If you email Will at Horizon he'll be back to you in very short order and can probably put together all the bits you'll need. Other suppliers should be able to do exactly the same for you I would have thought. I modded the tx and the range extender myself. No soldering, just some care, a Dremmel (other drilling and grinding devices are available!), a sharp craft knife and a hex driver and cross head screwdriver were what I used. Took me about half an hour. Oh, and I bought the 5.8 as well because I was losing control before I was losing wifi (I was only getting about 350m of the 500m minimum you should get. Others with unmodded transmitters are getting out to 3000ft without touching it. The helicals are more directional, so if you don't have control range issues then you may want to stay with the stock omnidirectional whip. I don't find aiming an issue as I have it parallel to my 2.4 Blackhawk on the range extender, so as you're used to aiming the extender at the aircraft then I just naturally point the tx at the aircraft and both antennas are in the zone.

    As ever the caveat is that my flying conditions will be very different from yours and there does seem to be some variance in performance amongst people's tx's and range extenders which might be hardware related or might be just down to the flying location, amount of RF interference, etc, etc.
     
  12. KenKopter

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    Thanks very much, Pull_Up. You are a fountain of knowledge. I even understood the part that said "contact Will." :)

    I'll PM you for his private email address. Thanks very much.

    --

    On the RP note, I heard back from Keri. Here's the current state of their union....

    So figure 8 weeks. Those estimates and rumors about August or even 2015 are off-base.

    He went on to say that the Taco Toy product breaks easily and has damping problems, but I'll skip his exact language. Given the reasonable time frame and the questionable quality of my "backup plan," I've placed an order for the RP and will wait patiently. :)

    Thanks very much to all.

    Warm regards,
    Ken
     
  13. Pull_Up

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    Well, it's in his interest to play down the competition, but I do agree with him about fragility and gimbals. One forum user dropped his Taco off the table to the kitchen floor and it broke into several pieces (they agreed to send him replacement plastic parts at no charge, which is good). People have had minor crashes with the dronexpert gimbal and the plastic has broken or cracked. One user with the Rotorpixel had a crash and only the camera mount broke, no other damage at all, and that replacement part can be ordered from Rotorpixel.

    The main selling point for me is the future-proofing of a third axis upgrade, mounts for other cameras and the fact you can carry it on to other airframes, not just for use with the Vision. But everyone will have their favourite - it's like asking if you prefer android or iPhone... It somewhat polarises opinion! ;)
     
  14. iDrone

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    KenKopter, for what it's worth these are strictly my opinions expressed hundreds of posts ago but perhaps worth repeating here. Making a digitally stabilized gimbal to support up to 80g weight is no longer rocket science and is pretty much off the shelf these days, and there are some very good ones out there. However moving, stabilizing, & tracking (yaw) more mass (120-200g) rapidly becomes more difficult requiring lots of beef: beefier motors & bearings, beefier motor drivers, beefier structural design in everything from motor shafts to mounting arms to servo feedback circuitry & the software which monitors & corrects positional errors caused by normal flight plus gusts & overcoming hysteresis (lag) trying to wield more mass in as short a time gracefully back to where the camera should be pointing so as not to affect framing & image stability. Another challenge is to use as little precious power as possible (more weight, bigger motors, more power consumption, less flight time).

    You & the rest of us are pioneers, looking for the best of the best during the first development phase of medium-duty "prosumer gimbals" coming into the marketplace, not to be confused with "hobbiest gimbals" for lightweight RC or professional gimbals we use here in film-making.

    My money's on RP for a number of reasons but here's a few of the more interesting ones: lot'sa beef... Motors, bearings, shafts, aluminum superstructure, proven digital controller, open/optimizable controller firmware, 1-arm CG suspended camera, easily optimized sensor positioning, swappable camera mounts, 3rd axis upgradeability, and it's all Plug 'n Play... not Plug 'n Pray (and no that's not an ethnic slur).

    High-speed (low density) mass-produced 3D printed parts are fine for non-critical parts or "destructible" replaceable parts, however in my experience take too long to print in high-density and therefore unsuitable for fast mass production. Printing structural parts at high-speed almost certainly implies the part will be made in low-density, hence weaker and ultimately easy to break when impacted by fast-torque or shock (such as from vibration & hard or multiple landings. Aluminum superstructure has none if these issues and doesn't bend as printed & even CF structural members do.

    So I hope that helps clear up the playing field on a technical level. I'll let you decide on other considerations like support, continued development of enhancements & firmware upgrades, etc.

    iDrone :D
     
  15. johnbowen

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    just recently checked my connections on my external connections. All was good. Changed antenna to TP-Link 8dbi on both connectors, with about a 30% improvement. I'm now getting about 300 feet, best case. The signal is highly variable; definitely have some reflected signal issues going on, etc. Stop flying, let it settle down, it seems to reacquire signal. Turn sideways, same thing.

    I've ordered a 2dBi LHCP and a 2.4GHz LHCP Half Sphere Helix 9 dBi from www.fpvlr.com/store; i'm confident I'll see an improvement in range; hopefully back out to 1000', as a minimum.

    If that does not help enough, then it's time for some camera antenna mods.

    All things being said, yes, I think the Rotorpixel is the way to go. Too bad this stuff was not mainstream through amazon. Then i could decide whether it met my expectations/needs, and return if needed.

    i've also trying to work out some jello issues. I'm not sure if it might be gusty wind related, or actual jello. Best way to describe it is a shutter while stationary, or when changing direction/height at a moderate or greater rate. New DJI props installed; BTW.
     
  16. johnbowen

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    To add to iDrone's comments; I totally concur with what you have written. I'm on vacation in Hawaii, wanted the gimbal for that trip. Live and learn. We are the betas testers for the industry at this point. Rotorpixel, at least from my perspective, has the better engineered design. Some of dronexpert's parts are clearly 3D printed at high speed, making them also styrofoam like in their strength (and fragility). I understand light; but it also needs to be strong. Titanium would be great IMO; very light, strong, able to dampen vibrations. Hard to work with; but a reason the military aerospace industry loves it.
     
  17. Studiowise

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    I haven't been on here for what seems like months but as this topic had mentioned damaged Dronexpert gimbals, I thought i'd just broadcast how amazing Dronexpert's customer service has been for me.
    A month ago, whilst taking shots on a crappy day, in crappy conditions and in a crappy location, I managed to totally destroy my gimbal.
    I boxed all the bits I could find and sent them back to the Netherlands.
    Not only did they rebuild the whole gimbal but they also took on my request for a modified lens filter and mini hood. They then took about machining a bespoke ND filter holder and mini lens hood for me. Whole thing shipped back to me by UPS in a new metal carry case and with all new replacement parts to fit it back to my Vision.
    Total replacement cost to me £0.00. Absolutely amazing
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Pull_Up

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    Studiowise that was a major mess, and indeed major customer service effort! One might say that they absolutely did the right thing given the nature of the results of the crash (I'm assuming the aircraft survived relatively unscathed?) as it does highlight the inherent weakness of plastic as structural component when hanging off the bottom of the skids. Still, if they intend to rebuild and replace all crash damage like this for free then that might explain the price differential and might convince more people to go down that route. Do you think this was a "standard" service or is there a reason why this might have been done as a "special" for you?

    Oh and welcome back, we missed you. :)
     
  19. Studiowise

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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    Hi Pull_Up,
    I see no reason why i would be singled out for special treatment other than I have been active on one or two forums which they might have spotted. Yes, just chipped blades on the Vision.
    I flew today for the first time since the rebuild and i was really impressed with the results. I still need to tweak my settings and i'm tempted just to dial the whole thing down to a sky crawler rather than what its capable of at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I love flying fast figure of eights with tight reactionary turns but they're not conducive to the type of footage i'm looking to capture. The 7th channel on this gimbal is brilliant and I can now start to plan my smooth pans. Currently working on skid stabilisation, I flew today with some bracing installed but I think I can improve things even more.
     
  20. KenKopter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
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    Re: Rotorpixel or DroneExperts Gimbal (after all is consider

    Thanks very much, Pull_Up.

    I've put in my order for the Rotorpixel, so now I wait 8 weeks. :)

    --

    iDrone, this summarizes the state of the union eloquently (I've been thinking exactly the same)...

    viewtopic.php?p=97497#p97497

    The industry is in transition, not able to keep up with a more mainstream/prosumer demand. Or, as johnbower put it...

    That, and an authoritative site that boils this niche down with authoritative reviews of drones and accessories, best packages for various needs, flying techniques, etc. would do quite well as an online business.

    Forums are great for what they do, and this one is lucky to have so many really helpful contributor. But the first person to put up a quality drone info-site should do quite well.

    --

    Studiowise, this is fantastic testament to DroneExpert's Support...

    viewtopic.php?p=97583#p97583

    Although the breakage issue convinced me to go with RP, it's great for those considering DE to know that they back up their products.

    That 7th channel feature looks very slick, was almost the turning point to go with DE. If I remember correctly, RP's 7th channel feature was harder to set up, or was optional.

    Since we'll be using FatShark goggles, being able to control tilt without having to touch the app, AND while ALSO letting a "spotter" tilt while using a tablet, that's slick.

    I do hope Rotorpixel sharpens their 7th channel to that level by the time they ship to me. :)

    Again, thank you to all.

    Bottom line on "easy DIY gimbal for Phantom 2 Vision" is the following...

    1) most folks recommend RotorPixel

    2) those with DroneExpert are generally happy. Although their gimbal breaks rather easily, their Support is excellent.

    3) The third product, from Taco Toy, is cheaper (only $250 - you don't need to buy the other bits on the order page, although it may be wise to have backup pieces). They email back quickly, but there were no comments on their Support quality.

    4) Rumor that DJI may itself produce one.

    Again, thank you to all!

    All the best,
    Ken