Responding to law enforcement

[johan]

"A couple things... first, if you are flying as a hobbyist, it's NOT illegal or even against FAA regulation to fly within 5 miles of an airport."
That's a misleading statement. Makes no difference whether you call yourself a hobbyist or a commercial operation. No aircraft can operate in class B, C, or D airspace without ATC clearance and two-way radio contact.

Not true. Only class B requires a clearance. No clearance is required to operate inside class C or D airspace. Two-way contact is all you need there. Seems to me, taking out my phone and calling a class D tower and telling them I'll be flying 4 miles southwest of the field at or below 200' for the next hour should satisfy the two-way communication requirement quite well.

 

[Deleted member 29014]

Not true. Only class B requires a clearance. No clearance is required to operate inside class C or D airspace. Two-way contact is all you need there. Seems to me, taking out my phone and calling a class D tower and telling them I'll be flying 4 miles southwest of the field at or below 200' for the next hour should satisfy the two-way communication requirement quite well.

Really? Did they throw the FARS away while I slept?

Sec. 91.129 — Operations in Class D airspace.
(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required by the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the Class D airspace area, each person operating an aircraft in Class D airspace must comply with the applicable provisions of this section. In addition, each person must comply with §§91.126 and 91.127. For the purpose of this section, the primary airport is the airport for which the Class D airspace area is designated. A satellite airport is any other airport within the Class D airspace area.
(b) Deviations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the airspace concerned. ATC may authorize a deviation on a continuing basis or for an individual flight, as appropriate.
(c) Communications. Each person operating an aircraft in Class D airspace must meet the following two-way radio communications requirements:
(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace....

Sec. 91.130 — Operations in Class C airspace.
(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operation in Class C airspace must be conducted in compliance with this section and §91.129. For the purpose of this section, the primary airport is the airport for which the Class C airspace area is designated. A satellite airport is any other airport within the Class C airspace area.
(b) Traffic patterns. No person may take off or land an aircraft at a satellite airport within a Class C airspace area except in compliance with FAA arrival and departure traffic patterns.
(c) Communications. Each person operating an aircraft in Class C airspace must meet the following two-way radio communications requirements:
(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.

 

[Man.Of.Kent]

my reply did not violate any forum rules.

Isn't the point of the report option to report posts that you find offensive or against the spirit of the forum? In this thread you have scolded two people and told them to leave. I think what the moderator is saying is that you should have reported the offensive posts and he would have disciplined appropriately (which, in fact he already had).

 

[GoodnNuff]

Luis is used to the 3DRPilots forum where we have to police and moderate the list ourselves.
IMO sometimes that is more effective than a designated "voice of authority." Some people respond better to their peers than they do to "the man" when it comes to curtailing their group behavior.

 

[Deleted member 29014]

Isn't the point of the report option to report posts that you find offensive or against the spirit of the forum? In this thread you have scolded two people and told them to leave. I think what the moderator is saying is that you should have reported the offensive posts and he would have disciplined appropriately (which, in fact he already had).

 

[Man.Of.Kent]

Nice picture. Why is the man tickling his horse?

 

[johan]

Really? Did they throw the FARS away while I slept?

Sec. 91.129 — Operations in Class D airspace.
(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required by the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the Class D airspace area, each person operating an aircraft in Class D airspace must comply with the applicable provisions of this section. In addition, each person must comply with §§91.126 and 91.127. For the purpose of this section, the primary airport is the airport for which the Class D airspace area is designated. A satellite airport is any other airport within the Class D airspace area.
(b) Deviations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the airspace concerned. ATC may authorize a deviation on a continuing basis or for an individual flight, as appropriate.
(c) Communications. Each person operating an aircraft in Class D airspace must meet the following two-way radio communications requirements:
(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace....

Sec. 91.130 — Operations in Class C airspace.
(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operation in Class C airspace must be conducted in compliance with this section and §91.129. For the purpose of this section, the primary airport is the airport for which the Class C airspace area is designated. A satellite airport is any other airport within the Class C airspace area.
(b) Traffic patterns. No person may take off or land an aircraft at a satellite airport within a Class C airspace area except in compliance with FAA arrival and departure traffic patterns.
(c) Communications. Each person operating an aircraft in Class C airspace must meet the following two-way radio communications requirements:
(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.

Wow, look at your copy and paste skills. Did you learn that all by yourself or did you take a class on it? I guess you've never flown NORDO aircraft to/from class C or D fields before. Fun stuff, you should try it.

Generally you call the tower on the phone which gets you the supervisor who can then transfer you upstairs to the on-duty controller. Tell em' who you are, where you are and what you intend to do. They may give you some instructions such as stay southwest until reaching [landmark] and if you're going to land at the field they may clear you to land right over the phone before you launch (if its a slow day) or they'll tell you to look for the light. But you will never hear 'cleared into the class charlie' or 'cleared into the class delta' because despite your earlier claim, no clearance is required to operate in that airspace. And while your magnificent copy and paste skills have revealed what the FARs say about two way radio communications, I've never had a problem flying NORDO aircraft in those types of airspace when I needed to so long as I called ahead and let them know what I was going to do and when.

Here's the thing that everyone tends to forget. ATC is there to provide services for us, not the other way around. They control certain parts of the airspace but they don't own that airspace, we the people do. I have every right to use of the airspace for my own purposes so long as I keep them informed.

 

[ianwood]

my reply did not violate any forum rules.

Seriously? First, read this:

9. Public discussion about moderation or moderator decisions is not allowed. If a moderator deletes or edits one of your posts and you disagree with the action, contact the moderator concerned. Do not repost deleted material.

Then this:

2. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Excessive sarcasm, belligerence, insults, profanity, anger, offensive comments about race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and national origin, are not acceptable.

4. Stay on topic by keeping discussions relevant and on-track.

13. Discussions about politics, weaponry and religion are permitted only in association with the topic of this forum or in the “off-topic” section and will be closed or removed if they become disruptive.

End of discussion. If you disagree, take it up with me privately.

 

[snerd]

Just. Wow. When you think that everyone else is the problem, it's usually "you" that is the problem.

 

[Bob Denny]

All states have Peace Officer Standards and Trainining boards. I suggest you go look at the standards in your state. They are public. All sworn law enforcement officers, deputies, etc. must qualify to the standards. Then if you are curious about the additional qualifications and policies for your local police, go get them, they are also public. Now educate yourself before you start commenting about police this or that.

Meanwhile a sworn peace officer can ask you to talk with him/her and with reasonable suspicion can prevent you from leaving pending further investigation. You are required to stick around, but not to incriminate yourself. You can stop talking other than to identify yourself.
Lucky for us, we do not have a national police force. Responding to police baiting and bashing for the errors at the margins will create an opening for our very own Gestapo. I know you want your local police to be immune to community issues and to respond to the DOJ.... Right?

 

[Man.Of.Kent]

Careful, Bob, not cool to be pro cop with so many cop haters here.
ps- I asked to be deleted from membership so I won't be around much longer.

Come on Luis. No one is condemning your irritation with irrational **** heads. You were picked up for doing the moderators job instead of using the correct procedure.

Isn't it ironic for a law enforcer to take the law into their own hands?.

 

[ianwood]

As a law enforcement officer, you of all people should understand that this forum has rules. This is not a site of cop haters or cop hater haters. I suggest everyone go flying.

 

[JKDSensei]

ADIOS!

Disrespecting the admins or moderators is just dumb.
We are here because of their hard work and efforts. The LEAST you could do is show some respect. Their forum....THEIR rules....whether we agree or not. What part of that is not crystal clear?
The amazing thing is you weren't banned. That is testament to the tolerance of the people who run this forum. This forum will go on without me or you.

I won't get personal, but I find it odd how some will throw the "maturity" word around when they have no clue what it means.

I saw this coming for a while.

 

[Mike Drone7]

I had an interesting encounter with a local cop just yesterday in the small town where I live. It was an early Sunday evening at a local school which has a 1/4 mile by 1/2 mile open area with scattered athletic fields. There wasn't a soul around so I figured great close place to fly just before twilight and get a few good pictures of the sunset. Well I was about 300 feet up and 1800 feet away when he pulled up asking is that you flying that thing? I set my Phantom to hover out in the distance and answered yes sir do you want me to leave? He got out of his car and was looking over my shoulder at my iPad and said no that things pretty cool what can you do with it. Well after a quick demo and answering a bunch of questions the battery was pretty low so I hit RTH and said watch this! He was amazed and said that thing is incredible. After landing we talked a bit more and right before he left he mentioned that if anyone was around don't be flying that thing. I just laughed and said don't worry sir I always fly safely. So as it turned out my nervousness quickly turned into a nice experience for both of us.

 

[MikeTess]

I had an interesting encounter with a local cop just yesterday in the small town where I live. It was an early Sunday evening at a local school which has a 1/4 mile by 1/2 mile open area with scattered athletic fields. There wasn't a soul around so I figured great close place to fly just before twilight and get a few good pictures of the sunset. Well I was about 300 feet up and 1800 feet away when he pulled up asking is that you flying that thing? I set my Phantom to hover out in the distance and answered yes sir do you want me to leave? He got out of his car and was looking over my shoulder at my iPad and said no that things pretty cool what can you do with it. Well after a quick demo and answering a bunch of questions the battery was pretty low so I hit RTH and said watch this! He was amazed and said that thing is incredible. After landing we talked a bit more and right before he left he mentioned that if anyone was around don't be flying that thing. I just laughed and said don't worry sir I always fly safely. So as it turned out my nervousness quickly turned into a nice experience for both of us.

So, why did that police officer initially make you nervous?

 

[kirk2579]

ADIOS!

I have a degree in criminal justice, definitely not anti establishment.. My kids are 2 doctors and career Army NCO.

I haven't been pulled over in over 20 years or so and I am sorry to say Luis I am glad I never met you on the road side. Your temper is quick! Your demeanor seems to be "us against them". That is clearly not a good mental state for a peace officer, retirement was good for the folks around you.

To disagree or feel different than you does not a hater make!
people in general have got to get over this "I been disrespected" thing! life is to short and seldom is anything worth the fuss!

Take care and have fun flying!

 

[apd3984]

Wow, after all the recent bad press about drone operators and police, I feel like I can't catch a break on duty or off.............

 

[BlackOpsTeamster]

Wow, after all the recent bad press about drone operators and police, I feel like I can't catch a break on duty or off.............

Well, be comforted in knowing that the vast majority of people know and understand that every group or organization has it's own share of knuckleheads and does not paint the entire group or organization with the same brush APD. You know, as a vet I quite often hear, "thank you for your service" and I always appreciate it. That kind of respect needs to be extended to first responders more frequently IMHO. So having said that I'd like to take the opportunity to say to you APD and all the other dedicated and hard working first responders:

Have a good day sir,
BOT

 

[Mike Drone7]

So, why did that police officer initially make you nervous?

Hey Mike. Just a bit nervous because I had no idea how he was going to react since I was at town owned athletic fields adjacent to two schools but as I said there was no one around on a Sunday evening.

 

[AirApparent]

Come on Luis. No one is condemning your irritation with irrational **** heads. You were picked up for doing the moderators job instead of using the correct procedure.

Isn't it ironic for a law enforcer to take the law into their own hands?.

Nope. It's done all the time.