Recreational drone now illegal in most of Canada...

Next to none actually...


A quick google search says there are tests planned, and simulations of damage, but nothing has been documented that I was able to find.

If they don't publish anything, it means it goes against there agenda, and 0 significant damage was done... I spoke with an aircraft engineer and he explained to me that Phantoms class of aircrafts would do no damage to an airplane or helicopter, worse case scenario would be if it does a direct hit on a cesna type aircraft prop and unbalance it causing vibration and forcing a landing, but the chances to actually hit the props of a small aircraft are so low, even if someone would try it would be almost impossible to achieve... The government know this, but their agenda is to make the people think that drone are dangerous and not let the common people access to this technology, they only want it for corporations and military...
 
We are no longer allowed to fly 9km from airports, 75m from buildings, and a lot more, since 10am this morning...
And there is no way to get recreational liscence, etc...
Sad for everyone in Canada...

Ottawa toughens rules for operating recreational drones
I never fly in an irresponsible manner. The thing I hate is being painted with the same brush everyone else is. My best guess is that not one of the people making these new laws is a drone flyer. I believe we should have a set of rules and a minimum age for drone use,but not the Gestapo style approach being rammed down our throats. I've joined N.O.D.E., let's see if it helps get my voice heard
 
I would like to see ACTUAL verified proof that there is a problem. So far the verifiable incidents that I have seen have been 1.)a few uninformed people (that would benefit from better community communication - flying in forest fire areas as an example) 2.) Reckless people who break the rules and don't care about (or don't think about ) the consequences of their actions on themselves or the general public. These are the same people who aim laser pointers at planes, drive drunk or speed in school zones and then 3)there are fly aways where drones are spotted at ridiculous heights in random places and 4) the people that intentionally out to harm people.
There are already lots of laws to deal with criminal acts, there needs to be more public education so people understand why flying near a forest fire causes problems. The manufacturers can step up with more robust flightsystems to prevent fly aways and tougher enforced penalties for people who want to harm people on purpose.
None of the proposed new laws will address any of these issues. I don't believe age limits help or should be traded so we can have more freedom. I would suggest that better parenting is a better solution. Get involved in your kids life instead. Adults are always willing to trade off kids rights when they are older than the cut off. I know more 30 year olds that shouldn't be flying a quad than I do 12 year olds. (many of the 30+ year olds are members of this site)
Rules and laws need to be designed to address an actual real proven problem that is backed by facts not government supported fear mongering by the media.

This announcement by the Government is a trial balloon that has been raised to determine public opinion and to see the strength of our community. We are failing. So many divisions have opened up... Adults vs kids, Pros vs amateurs, rural vs urban etc. clubs (like MAAC) vs privateers . The Government has us on the ropes already in the first round, the crowd is fighting among themselves and are willing to turn in their neighbor's quad so they can keep theirs. It's sad to think that I can no longer (or soon) take my grand kids out into MY backyard, take a video of them playing and let them fly (supervised, with safe limits) or take a few after dark videos of them "camping" in THEIR yard without breaking a Federal law and risking a 911 call dispatched SWAT team executing an American style no-knock warrant and holding my family at gunpoint... for flying a quad.

That makes me proud to be a Canadian. Our local police already put out a statement that they will be enforcing the new law in response to any complaint calls they receive. They said they won't be patrolling for drones but have to take any 911 call seriously. What a waste and there will be conflict when they start entering homes. There always is.

Just a sad situation
 
I would like to see ACTUAL verified proof that there is a problem. So far the verifiable incidents that I have seen have been 1.)a few uninformed people (that would benefit from better community communication - flying in forest fire areas as an example) 2.) Reckless people who break the rules and don't care about (or don't think about ) the consequences of their actions on themselves or the general public. These are the same people who aim laser pointers at planes, drive drunk or speed in school zones and then 3)there are fly aways where drones are spotted at ridiculous heights in random places and 4) the people that intentionally out to harm people.
There are already lots of laws to deal with criminal acts, there needs to be more public education so people understand why flying near a forest fire causes problems. The manufacturers can step up with more robust flightsystems to prevent fly aways and tougher enforced penalties for people who want to harm people on purpose.
None of the proposed new laws will address any of these issues. I don't believe age limits help or should be traded so we can have more freedom. I would suggest that better parenting is a better solution. Get involved in your kids life instead. Adults are always willing to trade off kids rights when they are older than the cut off. I know more 30 year olds that shouldn't be flying a quad than I do 12 year olds. (many of the 30+ year olds are members of this site)
Rules and laws need to be designed to address an actual real proven problem that is backed by facts not government supported fear mongering by the media.

This announcement by the Government is a trial balloon that has been raised to determine public opinion and to see the strength of our community. We are failing. So many divisions have opened up... Adults vs kids, Pros vs amateurs, rural vs urban etc. clubs (like MAAC) vs privateers . The Government has us on the ropes already in the first round, the crowd is fighting among themselves and are willing to turn in their neighbor's quad so they can keep theirs. It's sad to think that I can no longer (or soon) take my grand kids out into MY backyard, take a video of them playing and let them fly (supervised, with safe limits) or take a few after dark videos of them "camping" in THEIR yard without breaking a Federal law and risking a 911 call dispatched SWAT team executing an American style no-knock warrant and holding my family at gunpoint... for flying a quad.

That makes me proud to be a Canadian. Our local police already put out a statement that they will be enforcing the new law in response to any complaint calls they receive. They said they won't be patrolling for drones but have to take any 911 call seriously. What a waste and there will be conflict when they start entering homes. There always is.

Just a sad situation

I'd like to give a [emoji106] to about 9 different points in this post.
 
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(...)
That makes me proud to be a Canadian. Our local police already put out a statement that they will be enforcing the new law in response to any complaint calls they receive. They said they won't be patrolling for drones but have to take any 911 call seriously. What a waste and there will be conflict when they start entering homes. There always is.
(...)

My bigest concern here is, in our current society, there's alway these mens or womens (I don't want to generalize) who will call 911 over nothing just to annoy peoples, because they need attentions or simply because they are jealous ("I don't have a drone! So he can't have fun!"). I don't know about you guys, but where I live, it's kind of frequent. Like this one who call 911, not the police station, directly 911, because he ONLY saw a group of 7 teenish boys in a park at 9pm. They were just here talking, doing nothing wrong. (and, yes, this is a real case)

In my city, there is a beautiful place where I could take very good picture, It is not hard for me to fly my drone following the new laws there. But there is a flaw. There's no launch points outside any "75m circle from almost anything". So I need to break the law for a couple of second till I place my drone outside these restricted zone. I have my own judgment, I know if I can or can't take it in the air, and I don't mind twisting the laws a little to make it so, but I'm concerned about these "CALL 911 NOW" peoples.
 
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I'm concerned about these "CALL 911 NOW" peoples.

Yes, that is very much a legitimate concern as well. When did flying a drone over a squirrel in a field become such a threatening event that emergency services are encouraged to be involved?

My God this continues to make less and less sense every day. And we pay these officials very well, with our money, to come up with his stuff??

I feel sick.
 
I feel sick.

As drone pilots and photographers, we are trying to explore and pioneer the use of this technology. We are not out to cause catastrophic losses of life and property while terrifying every manner animal and vegetable. Transport should give us a sensible set of "guidelines" and from there, let us use our common sense. We do not need to be legislated by hearsay, speculation and the interest of "pro UAV companies".
 
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It's funny, the minister of transport is so worried about my little 1.25 kg drone and yet they allow freight trains loaded with every chemical known to man to run through every town and city in the country... I know the two are totally unrelated, but it just goes to show how biased their thinking is. There are daily occurrences of train derailments and accidents involving trains, maybe he should put a ban on freight trains within 9 km's of any town? I know it's a silly comparison, but it just smacks of someone with a drone phobia, retire Marc Garneau, we have enough fossils in politics!
 
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Here's the letter I wrote to the minister today, for what it's worth. I tried to cherry-pick only the aerodrome radius restriction to make it short enough that the policymakers read it. I also emphasized that the interim order paints my old foamy seaplanes with the same brush as my Phantom 3S, which is completely incoherent. I know not everyone will agree with my direction here, but I hope this inspires others to write as well ([email protected]).

Dear Minister Garneau --

I am a model aircraft enthusiast, writing in relation to your recent interim order respecting their use.

These rules -- and in particular the aerodrome radius rules -- are overbroad and disproportionate for meeting the objective of public safety. They do not represent an equitable balancing of rights. I ask that your office consider refining them to better meet the needs of all concerned.

I have been an electric RC model flyer for about 15 years. I fly small RC seaplanes, along with a model quadcopter with a stabilized camera, on a cottage lake in Nova Scotia. My heaviest model is about 1.5kg, but most are made of foam and have a flying all-up weight of no more than 700g. Standing on my dock in summer I fly a maximum radius of about 400m. Only the quadcopter has a camera capable of offering a first-person perspective while in-flight.

I am a former member of the Model Aeronautics Association of Canada. I let my membership lapse a few years ago, as MAAC's primary value is for members using its approved flying fields.

I appreciate the perceived need for enforceable rules governing the use of models. I am as appalled as anyone at some recent reports of irresponsible use of quadcopters, particularly around airports and crowds. I support rules and tools for enforcing them. It infuriates me that the bad decisions of a few people can prejudice everyone, and I would like to see consequences for those people. At the same time actual safety incidents involving drones in Canada are exceedingly rare.

My biggest concern with the interim order is the 9km no-fly radius for broadly-defined "aerodromes," being "airports, heliports and seaplane bases or anywhere that aircraft take off and land."

The 300' altitude ceiling offers complete safety for full-size aircraft to within a very short distance of an airfield, particularly off-flightpath. In fact the altitude ceiling would still prevent interaction between RC and full-size aircraft if it were raised to 400', consistent with the US rules.

I am sure you have had input from many RC flyers on this restriction. For me, my cottage lake appears to be just inside the radius for two "seaplane bases." I have never seen these bases and very seldom see seaplanes passing overhead. When I do see aircraft they are several thousand feet up.

The 9km complete prohibition may make sense for some airports, but for most small and rural "aerodromes" a much smaller radius, or a more nuanced restriction to a lower altitude within the radius, would not compromise safety. Further, why would a helipad, purpose-built for aircraft that do not need a lengthy approach, need the same radius as an international airport?

RC aircraft use is recreational, but so is full-size flying for many pilots. Where recreational use conflicts, the government should be seeking a fair balance between users. The "seaplane bases" near my lake, for instance, are for recreational pilots. The interim order unfairly elevates their recreational use to the prejudice of mine, and many other RC flyers in my area.

I have to think your interim order was not aimed at curtailing the kind of flying I do, but your office needs to appreciate that the vast majority of RC flyers in Canada are just like me. We take our hobby and its safety seriously. We're interested in aviation but recognize this is as close to flying as we'll ever get.

This summer when formulating the final legislation on model aircraft please consider a more rational, nuanced aerodrome radius restriction, synthesized with the maximum altitude rule, and taking into account aerodrome type and use.

Yours,...
 
Everyone in Canada......Report your own Drone! Make sure you say it was not flying (this is not breaking the law) But Reporting is perfectly legal and they should respond to you or admit that no one is in the office as they cashed paycheque and left the building like most idiot government workers do.......Here is the link:

Drone incident report form - Transport Canada






Privacy Statement


Transport Canada (TC) is committed to protecting the privacy rights of individuals and safeguarding the personal information under its control.
“Personal information” is defined as any information, in any form, about an identifiable individual; refer to section 3 of the Privacy Act for further details regarding personal information.
Personal information collected by TC is protected from disclosure to unauthorized persons and/or agencies subject to the provisions of the Privacy Act. Individuals have the right to the protection of and access to their personal information and to request corrections where the individual believes there is an error or omission. Individuals may contact the Department’s Access to Information and Privacy Protection Division to request corrections. Doing so of course is a completely useless, as we can barely find the washroom and our assholes with both hands, so please understand your corrections will go unheeded and unnoticed.
The information requested is required by the Department for the purpose of regulatory follow-up and will be used to investigate. Your personal information will be shared with Transport Canada Civil Aviation for the purpose of regulatory enforcement.
Yes what actually will happen is....nothing as we just sit at our desks then collect our paycheques and go home.
The information is collected under the authority of the Aeronautics Act (R.S., 1985, c. A-2).
Provision of the information requested in this document is voluntary and you may, without prejudice, decline to respond. Should you decide to complete the form, it is important to know that the submission of your information constitutes consent to the collection and use of your personal information.
Your personal information will be used for the following secondary purpose: statistical trend analysis. The personal information collected will be retained for seven years. The form containing personal information will be destroyed after 84 months (seven years).
 
My bigest concern here is, in our current society, there's alway these mens or womens (I don't want to generalize) who will call 911 over nothing just to annoy peoples, because they need attentions or simply because they are jealous ("I don't have a drone! So he can't have fun!"). I don't know about you guys, but where I live, it's kind of frequent. Like this one who call 911, not the police station, directly 911, because he ONLY saw a group of 7 teenish boys in a park at 9pm. They were just here talking, doing nothing wrong. (and, yes, this is a real case)

In my city, there is a beautiful place where I could take very good picture, It is not hard for me to fly my drone following the new laws there. But there is a flaw. There's no launch points outside any "75m circle from almost anything". So I need to break the law for a couple of second till I place my drone outside these restricted zone. I have my own judgment, I know if I can or can't take it in the air, and I don't mind twisting the laws a little to make it so, but I'm concerned about these "CALL 911 NOW" peoples.
Yes I agree calling 911 is not a solution. Letters written to the right place will probably not change anything. But this form? as a subtle protest pointing out how stupid this is and a waste of time and tax dollars? .... Drone incident report form - Transport Canada

Lets keep them busy without calling 911
 
Canadian Government Overreach to be sure. I hope that they come to their senses! I hope it doesn't come to this where I live (states). But the same sort of thing happens in the USA all to often. When I was young if some poor kid hurt himself at the pool, or lost a finger on fireworks, or crashed on his skateboard; that's all it was. Now, the pools are cemented over, all consumer fireworks are banned, kids get arrested for driving their skateboard or bicycle in "banned" locations. America (and maybe our gracious northern neighbors) started finding that as soon as something like that happened and a few (not a majority) citizens cried foul... the "Public Servants" started crafting laws to ban all such possibly risky activities. That's been going on for decades and the majority of sane and safe individuals are punished by having their favorite thing made illegal. It's ludicrous. What used to be a wonderful family activity became criminal behavior. Start writing letters, form clubs, do civil service in the name of the clubs. Make your good sane and safe activities public, show responsible behavior, etc. And maybe hire a really good lawyer before setting out to do your hobby.... ;-(
 
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As drone pilots and photographers, we are trying to explore and pioneer the use of this technology. We are not out to cause catastrophic losses of life and property while terrifying every manner animal and vegetable. Transport should give us a sensible set of "guidelines" and from there, let us use our common sense. We do not need to be legislated by hearsay, speculation and the interest of "pro UAV companies".

I hope they do that for Canadians drone hobbiests sake! Also for societies sake. Sensible regulations and prosecution of evidence based offenses - not someone calling 911 and confabulating a horrible person.....
 
I tend to look "bigger picture" with a lot of this stuff, and I think that planting that very seed with Mr. Garneau may provoke attention as well.

For example, what do these things use, and use a LOT of?

Batteries: their widespread use may very well accelerate the development, use and refinement of LiPo batteries by years, for any number of uses, be it cars to help reduce emissions, or lifesaving equipment in the medical field.

Wireless signals: widespread use may significantly contribute to enhanced wireless signal systems, whether that be wifi, Lightbridge or an as-yet untapped potential.

Autonomous flight: of the people on this forum, who seem to average in age on the mature side of the spectrum, I'd suggest that most would never have thought autonomous cars would be a reality in their lifetime. These devices may very well be a precursor to the personal transportation of tomorrow.

GPS: again, widespread use of a GPS reliant device may be a significant contributor to other uses of the signals that didn't exist such a short time ago.

Just saying. There are a lot of things that such a restrictive impact can have; and not because they are trying to take away our toys, but because these toys are highly innovative and stifling their use can significantly impact other innovations derived from their use.
Exactly what I recently quoted on a recent article /video of transportation of tomorrow which is a reality today, UFO Octocopter , 9 rotors and seats 2 people , if I can find it again. I will post but your point is bang on...The drone (RC quad/hexactoper/octocpoter industry is jumpin leaps and bounds in technology advances and is for sure a threat to the fossil fuel industry , **** capitalists and right now the technology is there to create a fleet of autonomous 2 passenger seat Octocopter , its real and we could have a fleet of these in less than 10 years, people could commute from their homes outside the cities and land in designated areas of downtowns etc...Gov do not want this, look how long it took to have electric cars on the market, and even today its taking forwarever to roll them out and have lipo charging stations everywhere...It would save billions and our planet but this makes way too much sense,
 
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Here you go. This is my offering to Mr. Garneau.

As mentioned by another member here, it's not important that everyone agree with every point; it's more important to take a stand and at least try. If I had to rewrite it 5 times I'd probably rewrite it 5 different ways, but I had to at finally click "send" at some point.

Honourable Minister Garneau,

Having become aware of the restrictions you have recently imposed upon recreational drone use in Canada, I feel compelled to respectfully offer feedback which will hopefully compel a review of restrictions that, in their current form, virtually eliminate even the most casual and safe use and enjoyment of drones in our country.

While I certainly agree that some restrictions are necessary to help integrate this new and evolving technology safely within our existing transportation infrastructure, as well as provide a reasonable expectation of safety to the public in general, I also believe that a more appropriate balance is required to allow this technology to grow and flourish as the emerging advance it is poised to become.

Please consider the following:

While several of the rules are understandable and acceptable, such as the range from an airports and controlled air space, as well as staying clear of forest fires, first responders, and being sure to stay within line of sight including avoiding clouds and darkness, there are some troubling points that as mentioned, if interpreted to the letter of print, virtually eliminate drone use entirely.

To the specific points presented in your announcement of March 16, 2017, the height restriction of 90m is approximately 30m lower than that of our US counterparts at 120m, which is still well below the minimum altitude of an aircraft outside of an airport or point of take-off/landing.

However, the most troubling of all is the restriction of maintaining a distance of 75m from “buildings, vehicles, vessels, animals, people, crowds, etc.” First and foremost, the “etc” is of particular concern in that it could be interpreted that drone flight should be restricted from 75m of virtually anything. Even with a less a hard approach to the “etc”, I respectfully submit that even outside of built up areas, in our country’s vast expanses of wilderness, I have to imagine that I am always within 75m of an animal at any given time. Furthermore, in any free and accessible location that it is permissible to launch and fly from, that same area is just as open to other members of the general public and upon their arrival and presence a drone pilot would then be in violation of the new restrictions.

With this reasonable interpretation of the new restrictions, it becomes clear to conclude that recreational drone flight can be considered effectively impossible anywhere in Canada.

While I admit to not being in a position to verify quoted specific statistics with regard to the threat to aircraft, simple research has shown that there have not yet, thankfully, been any confirmed aircraft/drone strikes on record. There have however been reportedly some 65,000 bird strikes, and some studies in the UK are showing that there is no more threat of damage by drone than bird. It is important to note that pilots have not been required to verify with certainty that the sightings they’ve been reporting are in fact drones, which can skew the reported statistics.

It also becomes critically important to review the tremendous amount of benefit that this technology and its use can provide.
  • There are recent and growing reports of drones providing critical support with regard to search and rescue teams, and many of these drones are supplied and operated by civilians that happen to be in the “right place at the right time”, when location of missing persons is exceptionally time sensitive
  • The widespread use of some of the technical and advanced electronics can certainly forward the development of better, safer technologies, much faster than any other means. This includes:
    • Batteries, which can benefit transportation industries and environmental causes, as well as the medical field and the refinement of safer batteries in general in response to recent reports of lithium polymer instability.
    • The GPS capability of several of the more popular models, which with propagation can evolve exponentially, may enhance mapping, search and rescue grids, and any number of uses that location accuracy can assist with
    • Wireless signals have clearly emerged as a preferred and beneficial means of communication, and can reach unprecedented testing and refinement when used and tested by non-critical, recreational means
    • Autonomous flight is certainly an exploratory technology of the future, and with all due respect, your own experience as an astronaut could have certainly been adversely affected had the development of technology been as stifled and these new restrictions are.
There is no doubt that rules and guidelines are required to ensure public safety. I would suggest that a reasonable route to pursue may be licensing; much as Canadians are now required to have a Pleasure Craft Operators License to ensure that guidelines are understood and followed, with reasonable means of enforcement available.

There are two reasons this point becomes relevant:
  1. This will help discourage any casual operators that are simply interested in the fascination of the hobby without fully committing to the understanding of safety requirements that protect us all, of whom which can be the primary source of reckless flight, while additionally allowing law enforcement a simple and effective means of deterrence;
  2. This can be tied to drone ownership and registration, much like the US, so that registration can be affixed to the aircraft rather than the personal information now required to be attached, which can lead to privacy and confrontational issues
Licensing can also be size/weight specific, to ensure that the larger drones which can be a greater threat to aircraft or persons on the ground, can have rules set for their individualized use.

There are normal and acceptable risks we face and willingly accept every day as commonplace. Cars and 80,000lb trucks use the same roads as cyclists and pedestrians. Thousands upon thousands of aircraft are over our heads all the time. There are endless circumstances that we accept as normal, though any of the above is subject to human error or mechanical failure at any time. I implore you to reconsider such stifling restrictions that an entire emerging hobby’s existence is threatened.

Finally Mr. Garneau, this technology is a fantastic source of family outdoor fun and adventure. The abundance of learning and growth that I’ve been able to enjoy with my family, along with the excellent and newly discovered photographic footage available, is unprecedented.

Thank you for your time. I would welcome any feedback or interaction that you would consider helpful on this matter.

Respectfully,

(Me)
 
Here you go. This is my offering to Mr. Garneau.

As mentioned by another member here, it's not important that everyone agree with every point; it's more important to take a stand and at least try. If I had to rewrite it 5 times I'd probably rewrite it 5 different ways, but I had to at finally click "send" at some point.

Honourable Minister Garneau,

Having become aware of the restrictions you have recently imposed upon recreational drone use in Canada, I feel compelled to respectfully offer feedback which will hopefully compel a review of restrictions that, in their current form, virtually eliminate even the most casual and safe use and enjoyment of drones in our country.
..... snipped for brevity....

I would like to say.... WOW!

May I borrow you the next time I need a letter drafted? After reading this letter, I feel you have touched on every point that we all are thinking about, but yet having a tough time putting in to words.
 
I would like to say.... WOW!

May I borrow you the next time I need a letter drafted? After reading this letter, I feel you have touched on every point that we all are thinking about, but yet having a tough time putting in to words.

Thank you... and it's nice to hear you feel I covered enough because honestly I could have easily tripled that.

I consider myself fairly new to the hobby, last fall, but between the combination of truly enjoying it, and being tired of accepting the loss of freedom that seems all too frequent, I had to say something.

I encourage anyone to take or duplicate anything contained therein... and if it helps I'll write more if someone feels there are additional points to be made!
 
I would try to write a letter to Mr Garneau as well but I fear it would look like this...

Dear Mr. Garneau,
You're an *******!
Sincerely,
Me
 
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