Real Estate
- Thread starter Craneworks
- Start date
- Status
GadgetGuy
Premium Pilot
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2015
- Messages
- 6,881
- Reaction score
- 2,199
Indeed! Especially with other ordinary income, against which to take any net operating loss!
So far it is has been very slow for me. I have a few ads up which I have even paid for, which have gotten a few replies. I got a response asking my quote for a 400,000 sq.ft building. I said I'd do it for $100 and they still didn't bite. My ad is says I'll do regular houses for $40 for the whole shoot, haven't gotten one deal closed yet.
That being said the real estate market is definitely very down where I'm from and has been for a few years so not as many people are buying/selling.
I'll have to find a different path to turning my P3 into a lucrative UAV, the real estate thing just isn't working right now.
That being said the real estate market is definitely very down where I'm from and has been for a few years so not as many people are buying/selling.
I'll have to find a different path to turning my P3 into a lucrative UAV, the real estate thing just isn't working right now.
Sounds like they may be passing because you are too cheap. Many people regard quality with price.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Messages
- 89
- Reaction score
- 9
- Age
- 53
I have a question... I've tried to make sense of this before posting but cannot... say I have a cousin who is a real estate agent and to get some experience I offer my services to her for free. simply give her some pictures I took so can use them in her ads or website or whatever. I am pursuing my 107 but have not taken the test yet... is she able to use my media even though it was supplied to her free of charge?
same goes for my friend who is looking for an aerial loop for the background of his website he is using to advertise his resume services? since they are selling services but I am not charging them do I need to have a commercial license for something like this?
same goes for my friend who is looking for an aerial loop for the background of his website he is using to advertise his resume services? since they are selling services but I am not charging them do I need to have a commercial license for something like this?
Still need a part 107 whether money is paid or not. If they will benefit from the content then it's considered commercial use.
GadgetGuy
Premium Pilot
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2015
- Messages
- 6,881
- Reaction score
- 2,199
Yup. They figure you know better than anyone else what you are worth!
You can't make it up in volume when you are selling dollar bills for 95 cents!
Multiply your prices by 10 and you'll at least be taken seriously.
As mentioned above, your sister is marketing real estate and images are definitely used to further her business (they are essential), but am going to disagree regarding your resume friend. You are giving him a photo for his website which offers a resume service, correct? That photo, while very nice I'm sure, is not there for the direct purpose of making him earn money any more than the font or background color he has chosen. NOW, if you gave the image to a pro website developer who charged him for the site...well, that is different; It's 107 time. My very humble but informed opinion.
Last edited:
Hey, @calgaryflyer - @Robert Weaver and @GadgetGuy nailed it. Strange as it seems - and to your distinct advantage - studies do strongly support raising your prices...within reason (don't go crazy with it). According to what I have read, the potential buyer/client does NOT think of a really low price as a good deal, but attribute that to your own self worth, opinion of your own work, substandard quality, desperation, or similar. Totally weird but true. Personally, I LOVE a good deal.
GadgetGuy
Premium Pilot
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2015
- Messages
- 6,881
- Reaction score
- 2,199
The rule of thumb when getting bids for a job to be one is get at least three bids, and pick one of the ones in the middle, all else being equal. The top one is usually overpriced, the bottom one either made a mistake, or will have to cut corners, or will bait and switch you once you commit to them. The outliers are always suspect. The guys in the middle know the competition, and are usually competent, and are more likely to get the job done on time and within budget, because they are not competing on price, and therefore depend upon their reputation and referrals for more business.
It doesn't matter what they use it for. If you do it FOR them you are outside of the HOBBY box. If they use it on their website at all it's part of a business. Not every portion of a website directly creates business but it's still part of the business website/ad/design whatever.
In the most simple terms the INTENT of flight is what matters. If you did it and later realized it was something they might like you can give to them and they are free to use it. If you go up to take pics for someone else (regardless how they use them or intend to) you are NOT flying as a hobbyist. With the FAA ever portion of your flight has to fit neatly inside the HOBBY guidelines box. If any small portion does not you are default into COMMERCIAL.
GadgetGuy
Premium Pilot
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2015
- Messages
- 6,881
- Reaction score
- 2,199
Agreed. You are also able to later sell images/video taken as a hobbyist, if they were not originally taken with the intent to sell. Build up your portfolio as a hobbyist, and if there is a market for your previously shot content, you can sell the heck out of it later!
Let's not forget the FAA was going after people putting personal drone videos on YouTube because of the ads.
Yes they were but that was later reversed and admitted that they were FAR over reaching with that one. I could easily argue that one from either side but they did go back and admit that was going too far.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 5
- Age
- 42
Licensed agent, and part 107 cert holder here. I'm in the Northeast. I can offer a little perspective. I don't practice real estate regularly, because I make far more in my main business. I do stay involved, and have explored some new media ideas with my brokers, however.
The notion of just selling aerial to residential realtors/brokers/sellers is a loser. You'd be much more likely to find success selling a media package, that includes photos (obv), and interior/exterior video. VERY few listing have full media portfolios and that is a viable sell. The guy upthread selling $40-$100 aerial is lucky no one hired him as it wouldn't be worth the gas to drive to the location.
I'm new here, so I don't know how well anyone knows media, but producing quality content is expensive and time consuming. The camera and lens combo I use for RE is over $4k with all the right stuff...just for RE shoots. And that's not even high end. Editing photos and videos properly takes a long time, especially for real estate because you have balance creativity and accuracy. It's not easy. You also don't want to be spending hours onsite.
Anyway, if you think regular, run of the mill realtors are getting into this, you're mistaken.
- A decent DSLR is $1300+ at the lowest end, body only. The Canon T6/Nikon D3300 type models are not worth it. Yes they're DSLRs and can take lenses, but they're for beginners in photography getting their feet wet. They don't have the sensor sizes and dynamic range to get the really detailed photos you'd want as a pro. I'm not saying a pro couldn't get better pics out of them than I could with a $10k camera, I'm saying a pro wouldn't be using them, so if you're running a biz, get the right gear. (The ironic thing is that many realtors I know have purchased these low end DSLRs thinking it would make their pics better and it actually has the opposite effect. The added complexity and terrible kit lenses make for worse shots than if they had just used a decent point and shoot. )
-As stated above, you need a good 12-24mm or 14-24mm lens (widely considered to be the best for RE). $1200-1800
-Tripod - Gear head alone is $300-500 (starting), legs another $200.
-Speed lights. You don't use the flash on the camera. You're never lighting straight on in RE photography. $200-$300/each/min.
-various tools like diffusers/extra batteries/bags etc. High quality memory cards (so overlooked by most). Another $300-$400
(I personally run a d500 with the Nikkor 12-24mm for RE. I'd love the 14-24mm, but with a 1.5 crop, and $600 premium over the 12-24mm, I'm fine for now. I use the Osmo for video walk throughs.)
-I don't need to go over the sUAS prices line by line, as presumably everyone here knows what they cost. I'll say $2k all in for running a business with all accessories etc. So $5-7k in total equipment only.
-Insurance is cheap, but still a cost. All admin/filing fees etc.
Remember also that to produce great video, you need to edit and render it...the garbage laptops from Best Buy I see Mary Joe and John Realtor lugging around are not even remotely equipped to handle media workflows and workloads.
Agents will not being doing any of the above. I guarantee it. And honestly, if I DID see aerials of a property, I'd find out who took them and check the FAA Registry. If they're not in there I'd report them in a heartbeat, not only to the FAA, but local, state and national boards, and state DCP. In. A. Heartbeat.
As for the market, the idea is to sell to a brokerage and not individual realtors. They're all cheap (as stated) and most properties honestly aren't worth more than tossing up crappy iPhone photos. There's value in premium media for premium listings if marketed properly.
Real estate agents are lazy. That's why they're real estate agents. If you have the opportunity to look through a live MLS you'll see it repeatedly and reliably. They barely fill out listings properly, surely not in their entirety, and often take only 2-3 bad pics. Most people do not have the technical competence to edit photos and certainly not video. Nor do they do have the time or inclination. There's a market, it just needs to be approached properly. And this is just RE. There are dozens, if not hundreds of other markets ripe for solid sUAS pilots to make serious money.
If you're interested in really making a go of it, there are some amazing learning resources to get up to speed quickly with software and media techniques. As a tech professional, new tech and software is never really foreign to me, but I love doing tech training to learn new ****. IDK what the rules for linking are here so I won't, but there are some well-known online learning sites that are worth 100x their cost in value.
-Good Luck
Novum
The notion of just selling aerial to residential realtors/brokers/sellers is a loser. You'd be much more likely to find success selling a media package, that includes photos (obv), and interior/exterior video. VERY few listing have full media portfolios and that is a viable sell. The guy upthread selling $40-$100 aerial is lucky no one hired him as it wouldn't be worth the gas to drive to the location.
I'm new here, so I don't know how well anyone knows media, but producing quality content is expensive and time consuming. The camera and lens combo I use for RE is over $4k with all the right stuff...just for RE shoots. And that's not even high end. Editing photos and videos properly takes a long time, especially for real estate because you have balance creativity and accuracy. It's not easy. You also don't want to be spending hours onsite.
Anyway, if you think regular, run of the mill realtors are getting into this, you're mistaken.
- A decent DSLR is $1300+ at the lowest end, body only. The Canon T6/Nikon D3300 type models are not worth it. Yes they're DSLRs and can take lenses, but they're for beginners in photography getting their feet wet. They don't have the sensor sizes and dynamic range to get the really detailed photos you'd want as a pro. I'm not saying a pro couldn't get better pics out of them than I could with a $10k camera, I'm saying a pro wouldn't be using them, so if you're running a biz, get the right gear. (The ironic thing is that many realtors I know have purchased these low end DSLRs thinking it would make their pics better and it actually has the opposite effect. The added complexity and terrible kit lenses make for worse shots than if they had just used a decent point and shoot. )
-As stated above, you need a good 12-24mm or 14-24mm lens (widely considered to be the best for RE). $1200-1800
-Tripod - Gear head alone is $300-500 (starting), legs another $200.
-Speed lights. You don't use the flash on the camera. You're never lighting straight on in RE photography. $200-$300/each/min.
-various tools like diffusers/extra batteries/bags etc. High quality memory cards (so overlooked by most). Another $300-$400
(I personally run a d500 with the Nikkor 12-24mm for RE. I'd love the 14-24mm, but with a 1.5 crop, and $600 premium over the 12-24mm, I'm fine for now. I use the Osmo for video walk throughs.)
-I don't need to go over the sUAS prices line by line, as presumably everyone here knows what they cost. I'll say $2k all in for running a business with all accessories etc. So $5-7k in total equipment only.
-Insurance is cheap, but still a cost. All admin/filing fees etc.
Remember also that to produce great video, you need to edit and render it...the garbage laptops from Best Buy I see Mary Joe and John Realtor lugging around are not even remotely equipped to handle media workflows and workloads.
Agents will not being doing any of the above. I guarantee it. And honestly, if I DID see aerials of a property, I'd find out who took them and check the FAA Registry. If they're not in there I'd report them in a heartbeat, not only to the FAA, but local, state and national boards, and state DCP. In. A. Heartbeat.
As for the market, the idea is to sell to a brokerage and not individual realtors. They're all cheap (as stated) and most properties honestly aren't worth more than tossing up crappy iPhone photos. There's value in premium media for premium listings if marketed properly.
Real estate agents are lazy. That's why they're real estate agents. If you have the opportunity to look through a live MLS you'll see it repeatedly and reliably. They barely fill out listings properly, surely not in their entirety, and often take only 2-3 bad pics. Most people do not have the technical competence to edit photos and certainly not video. Nor do they do have the time or inclination. There's a market, it just needs to be approached properly. And this is just RE. There are dozens, if not hundreds of other markets ripe for solid sUAS pilots to make serious money.
If you're interested in really making a go of it, there are some amazing learning resources to get up to speed quickly with software and media techniques. As a tech professional, new tech and software is never really foreign to me, but I love doing tech training to learn new ****. IDK what the rules for linking are here so I won't, but there are some well-known online learning sites that are worth 100x their cost in value.
-Good Luck
Novum
Last edited by a moderator:
You can get started in RE photography for as little as $2K or less. A Nikon D3300 is perfectly acceptable especially if you are using lights. Adorama has Li Ion 2.4 Ghz manual speedlights for $99 ea. They work fantastic and the battery last forever. As a matter of fact the Sony a6000 and rokinon 12mm is becoming the standard kit for a lot of the members of the Facebook Real Estate Photogrpahers group. We are talking high end stuff being done with that combo. I bought a used DJI Phantom 3 Pro with a to of upgrades for $650.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 5
- Age
- 42
Getting started, sure. And I'm not talking used gear, because there are too many factors and markets vary. Also, if you're running a business, warranties matter.
'Perfectly acceptable' is also subjective. iPhone pics are perfectly acceptable in the industry as well. As I said, pro photographers can produce amazing results with anything. But they don't use $600 3 year old Sony models for a reason.
A fair set of points nonetheless. To each his own. I'd wager that even at the $2k you quoted, 99% of RE agents won't bother, and I stand by my original point.
To demonstrate that you don't need the latest and greatest photographer Mike Kelley created this image in one of his tutorial videos. He used a canon T2i with the kit lens. Yes, there are photographers doing high end real estate that are using the a6000. I may even switch to that setup as it's much more portable. You can't tell the difference between most modern DSLR's at 100-400 ISO. You can't tell whether it's FF or a crop sensor. Some of the top architectural and real estate photographers in the world have reiterated time and time again that you don't need the latest and greatest to do RE photography. I've bought one new camera in my life. That was a Pentax K100. My last 3 cameras have all been used and never had an issue. Warranties are usually only good for 1 year anyway.
BTW iPhone photos may be acceptable to lazy and cheap realtors. If you don't want to market other peoples personal property properly then it may be time for those realtors to find a new profession. It's not fair to the homeowners because they put trust in realtors and sadly many times are let down by just plain outright lazy people. They want people to come running to them ("the professionals"), but don't want to hire professionals to do what they do best.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 5
- Age
- 42
To demonstrate that you don't need the latest and greatest photographer Mike Kelley created this image in one of his tutorial videos. He used a canon T2i with the kit lens. Yes, there are photographers doing high end real estate that are using the a6000. I may even switch to that setup as it's much more portable. You can't tell the difference between most modern DSLR's at 100-400 ISO. You can't tell whether it's FF or a crop sensor. Some of the top architectural and real estate photographers in the world have reiterated time and time again that you don't need the latest and greatest to do RE photography. I've bought one new camera in my life. That was a Pentax K100. My last 3 cameras have all been used and never had an issue. Warranties are usually only good for 1 year anyway.
BTW iPhone photos may be acceptable to lazy and cheap realtors. If you don't want to market other peoples personal property properly then it may be time for those realtors to find a new profession. It's not fair to the homeowners because they put trust in realtors and sadly many times are let down by just plain outright lazy people. They want people to come running to them ("the professionals"), but don't want to hire professionals to do what they do best.
Again, as I said now 3 times, good photographers can make good photographs with anything. I'm not sure what pasting mediocre photos, and reiterating my point about iPhones adds to the content of discussion, or how it argues against my main point, which is that realtors are not getting into this business, especially aerial, with any initiative to speak of. You literally made my point. Thanks.
- Status
Similar threads
