Real estate for rookies

Thank you for your posts, I have had a ball reading them.

You are both funny and stuck on yourself! very entertaining.

FYI do you know what is needed for a "333" exemption in the US. ?
If not , it is simply a request in writing saying what you want to do with what and why etc.
Unsure how that makes one a "better" operator

The Section 333 Exemption process isn't hard at all especially if you have a setup that has already been approved before you. It just takes a while to figure out what words to use and how to submit them. In the beginning it was a total hassle that took hours and hours of writing/research unless you wanted to hire the work out (which at the time was probably worth it) but now not so much. You find one that has been approved that is very similar to your situation and you simply recreate it to your credentials.

The "hard" part now is the waiting process. Online it states around 90 days but that's not being realistic unless you know someone or are owed a favor. The current submissions are running around 120+ days. If they request additional information then you could easily add another 60 days on that estimate.

The Section 333 Exemption is just a letter from the FAA giving you approval to fly in a "commercial" aspect without meeting the full FAR requirements to do such. Basically you are explaining to them why you can NOT meet certain FARs, how you can do so safely, and how being allowed to do so is a positive thing for public interest.

Once you are given your 333 exemption you will get a list of the guidelines which you MUST adhere to or the 333 exemption is useless. One of the requirements (for now) is a pilot's certificate. This could be anything from Sport Pilot up to ATP. Keep in mind this is no way signifies you are qualified to operate a UAV but it is the only way (currently) that the FAA can say for sure you have been trained, tested and passed the proper training for navigating in NAS, reading charts, Weather, and ATC communications. Hopefully in 2016/2017 they will come up with a UAV training and testing program. Once that is in place it will be much easier and cheaper to "Commercially" operate a UAV in the US. Until then the Section 333 Exemption is the only way you can meet the requirements set for by the FAA for such endeavors.

As a side note... I'm not saying any of the above is "Law" etc I'm just trying to help someone understand what the Section 333 exemption is, what it does, and a very brief explanation of the process.

Just understand it's not nearly as hard as others have indicated to "get" Section 333 Exemption nor as costly except for the pilot certification. It just takes time and once it is granted it is VERY specific when, where, how you can fly. But if you plan to do this for "Work" it's probably a good idea because many people/organizations will not work with you without it.
 
The Section 333 Exemption process isn't hard at all especially if you have a setup that has already been approved before you. It just takes a while to figure out what words to use and how to submit them. In the beginning it was a total hassle that took hours and hours of writing/research unless you wanted to hire the work out (which at the time was probably worth it) but now not so much. You find one that has been approved that is very similar to your situation and you simply recreate it to your credentials.

The "hard" part now is the waiting process. Online it states around 90 days but that's not being realistic unless you know someone or are owed a favor. The current submissions are running around 120+ days. If they request additional information then you could easily add another 60 days on that estimate.

The Section 333 Exemption is just a letter from the FAA giving you approval to fly in a "commercial" aspect without meeting the full FAR requirements to do such. Basically you are explaining to them why you can NOT meet certain FARs, how you can do so safely, and how being allowed to do so is a positive thing for public interest.

Once you are given your 333 exemption you will get a list of the guidelines which you MUST adhere to or the 333 exemption is useless. One of the requirements (for now) is a pilot's certificate. This could be anything from Sport Pilot up to ATP. Keep in mind this is no way signifies you are qualified to operate a UAV but it is the only way (currently) that the FAA can say for sure you have been trained, tested and passed the proper training for navigating in NAS, reading charts, Weather, and ATC communications. Hopefully in 2016/2017 they will come up with a UAV training and testing program. Once that is in place it will be much easier and cheaper to "Commercially" operate a UAV in the US. Until then the Section 333 Exemption is the only way you can meet the requirements set for by the FAA for such endeavors.

As a side note... I'm not saying any of the above is "Law" etc I'm just trying to help someone understand what the Section 333 exemption is, what it does, and a very brief explanation of the process.

Just understand it's not nearly as hard as others have indicated to "get" Section 333 Exemption nor as costly except for the pilot certification. It just takes time and once it is granted it is VERY specific when, where, how you can fly. But if you plan to do this for "Work" it's probably a good idea because many people/organizations will not work with you without it.
It's basically a limited hunting license, requiring you to use a guide (licensed pilot) to shoot your prey (subject), under very specific conditions.:cool:
 
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It's basically a limited hunting license, requiring you to use a guide (licensed pilot) to shoot your prey (subject), under very specific conditions.:cool:

Is this how we could get a quad close to one of those Lions in Africa? :)
 
Is this how we could get a quad close to one of those Lions in Africa? :)
Exactly! No bow and arrows, though! Just what you can shoot with a well controlled Phantom. We don't want any lion cubs losing toes to drones dropping from the sky!:cool:
 
4


Please don't take this wrong. But it appears you are saying that only "certified folks" like your self are capable of safe an non rogue flying!

The paper work does NOT make a better or more capable operator in any way. It simply means you have met legal requirements to do certain activities--IN YOUR COUNTRY!

I put my 400 plus flights and ability to fly safely and be aware of the "rules" against yours any time.

Congratulations on getting those certs, Please don't let if make your head too large.

we are all here for the same basic reason, to fly, have fun , and maybe when possible make some money. everyone get over one selves and have fun.

Good luck and have fun flying!
I don't believe getting certifications is making my head larger, but it definitely gives me a wider vision of the picture. congratulations on your 400 flights, so you can probably fly your phantom correctly by now. In the cert program you don't even "learn" to fly the thing. this is up to you... You learn about legal stuff, avionics, met, and also not showing an over sized ego. When it comes to certain areas, again, and again, learn, take an exam, and then, know what you are talking about. as long as you have not done that...
 
I don't believe getting certifications is making my head larger, but it definitely gives me a wider vision of the picture. congratulations on your 400 flights, so you can probably fly your phantom correctly by now. In the cert program you don't even "learn" to fly the thing. this is up to you... You learn about legal stuff, avionics, met, and also not showing an over sized ego. When it comes to certain areas, again, and again, learn, take an exam, and then, know what you are talking about. as long as you have not done that...

Yes... it is we believe. It's akin to getting a certification for drinking water... yes, you can do it if you want.... there are thousands of companies out there that will give you a 'certification' for that if you write them a check. I think we may all have to just agree to disagree on that one.
 
As has been discussed at length above, a 333 exemption is not a certification of any flying competency. You can even get one without a pilot's license! It is simply permission for you to fly commercially under certain limited circumstances, as long as a licensed pilot is at the controls. FAA drone certifications do not exist yet in the U.S., so the FAA falls back on the pre-existing pilot's license certificate for minimum competency, which is like requiring 747 certification to fly a kite! :cool:

Experience is the best teacher. This hobby is Darwinism at work. The fittest survive, and the incompentents perish, or at least their aircraft do! Anyone with over 100 flights under their belt without a crash has certainly mastered the basics to stay out of trouble. It's the guys that bought it last week, with no prior experience, who are learning through trial by fire, that are the ones we need to worry about. There will be a million more of those after Christmas, based upon analysts projections! A drone will be Christmas gift of choice! Beware!:eek:

Just because the box says "Ready to fly" doesn't mean the pilot is!
 
FAA drone certifications do not exist yet in the U.S., so the FAA falls back on the pre-existing pilot's license certificate for minimum competency, which is like requiring 747 certification to fly a kite!
EXACTLY! That is exactly what I was trying to get across.

It would be one thing if the FAA was to say 'you need a 333 and a pilot cert for a full scale aircraft and that's how its always going to be' and could then presumably justify that stance. If that were the case I'd probably feel differently about the whole thing.

But the FAA has made no bones about saying right now, you need a pilot cert because we can't make it legal any other way. The FAA has also made no bones about saying in so many words, in a year or so we'll create a new cert and a new test to go with it that will allow you be legal without having to learn all the intricacies of landing a full scale airplane (which lands COMPLETELY differently than any 4-rotor GPS stabilized drone) and having to know all the intricacies of navigation and prediction of weather in the next 6-8 hours in order to fly something that must remain in your line of sight and won't fly longer than 20 minutes. Especially when its perfectly legal for you to fly that other thing all you like anyway so long as you don't take pictures with it that you intend to sell.

In a year or so, when the FAA catches up and creates regulations and requirements which actually reflect the risks of the task at hand, I'll be all in and proudly declare that everyone and anyone should get on board and do the right thing if they want to fly their UAV for money. But right now? I just can't see the point. Sorry.
 
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In a year or so, when the FAA catches up and creates regulations and requirements which actually reflect the risks of the task at hand, I'll be all in and proudly declare that everyone and anyone should get on board and do the right thing if they want to fly their UAV for money. But right now? I just can't see the point. Sorry.

I am ok with that.
 
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EXACTLY! That is exactly what I was trying to get across.

It would be one thing if the FAA was to say 'you need a 333 and a pilot cert for a full scale aircraft and that's how its always going to be' and could then presumably justify that stance. If that were the case I'd probably feel differently about the whole thing.

But the FAA has made no bones about saying right now, you need a pilot cert because we can't make it legal any other way. The FAA has also made no bones about saying in so many words, in a year or so we'll create a new cert and a new test to go with it that will allow you be legal without having to learn all the intricacies of landing a full scale airplane (which lands COMPLETELY differently than any 4-rotor GPS stabilized drone) and having to know all the intricacies of navigation and prediction of weather in the next 6-8 hours in order to fly something that must remain in your line of sight and won't fly longer than 20 minutes. Especially when its perfectly legal for you to fly that other thing all you like anyway so long as you don't take pictures with it that you intend to sell.

In a year or so, when the FAA catches up and creates regulations and requirements which actually reflect the risks of the task at hand, I'll be all in and proudly declare that everyone and anyone should get on board and do the right thing if they want to fly their UAV for money. But right now? I just can't see the point. Sorry.
And frankly, I would not trust anyone with a pilot's license to fly my drone! :cool:
 
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And frankly, I would not trust anyone with a pilot's license to fly my drone! :cool:

100% agree.... they could crash and kill somebody just like the 17 year old that pulls one out of a box and flies it for the first time.
 
100% agree.... they could crash and kill somebody just like the 17 year old that pulls one out of a box and flies it for the first time.
Unlss they also have drone flying experience equivalent to mine, the pilot's license is worthless!:cool:
 
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