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Rapid Charging Battery

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision Discussion' started by THell, Dec 24, 2013.

  1. THell

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    I was looking to see about Rapid charging the batteries for the Vision... Not sure

    the original charger is 12.6v at 4A

    the battery is 5200 mAh

    so doing the math a 5200 mAh battery is 5.2 Ah thus a 4 A charger will charge this battery in 1.3 hours

    Now that I have 2 batteries I can see the type of end needed to charge with and can easily make them... I can get a housing 3D printed and put the male ends in from cut material...

    so that all being said...

    This charger that comes with the phantom Vision is it just a dumb charger?
    or is it a smart Lipo charger that balances the battery?

    My other Lipos have a second connector out of them that connects to my smart chargers Imax B6's and uses that other connector (4 pin) to give feedback to the charger for balancing etc..

    my assumptions are that the phantom Vision battery has the chip inside to balance the cells IE the "smart" battery.... if that is trued then the charger is just passing it current and that is all... thus the charger may not even be a lipo charger just a regular power supply which supplies a constant 12.6v @ 4A to the battery and when the battery has had enough it feeds back on the charger to stop the charge / or put it into trickle mode... much like any decent NiMh charger will do

    so what I am getting at is.... is it possible to make a + and a - end for the Vision battery and use a charger like the Imax B6 to offer up a 12.6V charge at say 6 or a 7 A charge thus charging the battery faster?

    thoughts...
     
  2. Driffill

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    The way I look at it is the "chip" on the battery essentially controls the charging. The vision charger is just a power supply, so in theory you could supply the same voltage but here is the catch . . .

    With most chargers, the current is determined buy the "capability" of the charger. The IMAX B6 I own is a 5A unit, and I also bought a 5A power supply for the B6 (as I bought a DC only version), now if I were to put a 10A power supply onto the B6 it will still only charge at the 5A rated output.

    I assume the vision battery would be similar, the chip on it would handle the balancing, but most likely would only allow so much charge to flow, thus keeping the same charging times!
     
  3. urgno

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    but with a power supply capable of more than 4A you should be able to charge two or more batteries in parallel :)
     
  4. Driffill

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    Yep, but the power supply's need to be the correct voltage, especially when the batteries are full, the B6 won't want to charge the batteries unless the balance is cable is connected, so don't worry about using that.
     
  5. THell

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    In theory One could get a higher Amp charger say 12A

    something like this

    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SKYRC-T6200-Bala ... d42&_uhb=1

    Obviously you don't want to charge at 12A if you charge at 8 - 10 A then you would have a battery charged in the time it takes to drain another battery flying (in theory...)

    Yes the charger is not cheap but batteries for the Phantom Vision are $150 each..

    I am looking at my purchase of the Vision and thinking I could have bought a Phantom 1 upgraded the motors and carried 2 5200 mAh batteries on it with 9inch props I am betting I would get close to the 1/2 hour mark flight... and with 5200 Mah going for $30 - 40 each and a pack of DJI connectors out of HK going for $6 for a 10 pack of battery side... hmmmm


    with that said then is the current Phantom Charger REALLY a Lipo charger??? or is it just a 4.0A 12.6V power supply... in theory then if you can buy a standard 12.6V 10A power supply then "in theory" it should charge the battery -> in that it would supply 12.6V to the battery at a rate of 10A (using 10A as an example) and thus a rapid charge...
     
  6. urgno

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    is not you that decide at how much to charge the battery but the battery itself
    if the internal charger is programmed to get maximum 4Amps you can have a hundred Amps power supply
    but the battery will always get only 4A

    this is why i keep thinking that a parallel charge is the only way to take less time to charge p2v batteries

    ;)

    EDIT:
    and AGAIN I repeat :roll:
    you need a power supply ... NOT a charger ... a lipo charger use different way to supply power to lipo
    (Amp ramp up and down during the charge of a normal lipo)

    this is not what is doing the phantom power supply, is what is happening in the battery internally

    THIS should be good enough assuming that the voltage output is near enough to the 12.6V required
    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... gers_.html
     
  7. THell

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    Agree in that IF the battery can only take 4A charge... I am guessing it can take more.

    I have an electric scooter (motorcycle-ish) scooter that uses a 60V Lipo.. the charger that came with it was 5 Amp and the batteries are 30 Ah batteries so in theory 6 hours to charge full

    the battery has it's own BMS (battery management system) externally connected by both the + / - wires as well a number of small white wires (assuming balancing them) assuming 1 wire per pack of of parallel batteries making up 60v

    I have a high end charger that delivers 12A of power and the batteries now charge in less then 3 hours versus 6

    Interesting information here indeed

    wish these **** batteries weren't so expensive I would experiment...

    if anyone has a damaged battery for the vision I would experiment on that.... but a new one is way too costly to try out...


    In theory IF you want to sacrifice battery stats one could make deans to Vision battery cable and you could then buy standard 5200 mAh Lipo and charge on your B6 or other Lipo charger... but again you loose the battery stats ???
     
  8. THell

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    100% agree with you... all that is needed is a power supply
     
  9. urgno

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    unfortunately phantom will never take off on if don't get the info from "intelligent" battery :(

    I made this adapter to discharge my phantom battery to reach 50-60% ... something like storage
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    click to zoom

    PLEASE NOTE:
    just for discharge I'm using a hyperion charger because is able to put a load of around 7Amps on the battery
    (not using lipo program but Pb program)
    but I could have used a 80-100A 12V halogen lamp and with same effect ... but more light :mrgreen: :lol:
     
  10. THell

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    hahaha that is a great idea
    better then running the quad down... have to make me one of those....

    Crap too bad... well in theory "again" one could make a cable to attach to the pins of the battery and to the spring loaded info pins and.. feed it info... from one battery I guess and supplement with the other battery...

    this gets too cobbled together though...

    Just looking for a way to charge 1 battery at a time in about 30 minutes... this way if I have say 3 batteries I can go all day with a portable generator my quick power supply and 3 - 4 batteries

    at the old rate

    for continuous flight

    Assumptions
    1 hour charge time per battery
    30 min flight


    First flight battery 1 = 30 min
    ..... all other batteries fully charged

    second flight battery 2 = 30 min
    ..... battery 1 on the charger

    third flight battery 3 = 30 min
    ..... battery 1 half charge on charger 1
    ..... battery 2 on charger 2

    fourth flight battery 4 = 30 min
    ..... battery 1 full charge
    .......... battery 1 off charger 1
    .......... battery 3 on charger 1
    ..... battery 2 half charge on charger 2

    fifth flight battery 5 = 30 min
    ..... battery 1 full charge
    ..... battery 2 full charge
    .......... battery 2 off charger 2
    ..... battery 3 half charge on charger 1
    ..... battery 4 on charger 2

    sixth flight battery 1 = 30 min
    ..... battery 2 full charge
    ----- battery 3 full charge
    ......... remove battery 3 from charger 1
    ..... battery 4 half charge on charger 2
    ..... battery 5 on charger 1

    seventh flight battery 2 = 30 min
    ..... battery 3 full charge
    ..... battery 4 full charge
    .......... remove battery 4 from charger 2
    ..... battery 5 half charge on charger 1
    ----- battery 1 on charger 1

    Eighth flight battery 3 = 30 min
    ..... battery 4 full charge
    ..... battery 5 full charge
    ---------- remove battery 5 from charger 1
    ..... battery 1 half charge on charger 1
    ..... battery 2 on charger 2

    Then start back at flight 3 cycling the batteries etc..

    so for constant flight (assuming batteries take 1 hour to charge from 10% full..)
    you would need a minimum of 5 batteries @ $159 each = $636.00 (noting you have 1 battery shipped with your phantom 2/ vis)
    and 2 chargers @ $60 each (rough) so $120

    so for $756 you can have constant flight for as many hours as you want to fly....
     
  11. Pull_Up

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    Or just use 3 batteries and the standard power supply, give yourself a 10 minute break between flights (to warm fingers up in this weather, and cool down components for longer life) add in a few snack breaks and an hour off for a nice lunch and you could probably stretch $450 to all day, just not continuous... ;)
     
  12. garygid

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    Location:
    Laguna Hills, Orange county, CA 92653
    Safety Warning,
    It is dangerous to just take two batteries and simply connect
    them in parallel. This can severely damage the battery, and
    even cause a fire, or worse.
     
  13. urgno

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    Location:
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    of course can be dangerous in case you connect two are normal lipo batteries in parallel
    but the p2v battery is not a normal lipo ... is filled with electronic so you will not be simply connecting two lipos in parallel ... is more like supplying 12volts with a 3s lipo to a lipo charger

    ps. is my opinion that is possible to charge one p2v battery using any power source
    even using another p2v battery ... just powering one of them the other one will receive the power
    (this is useless but is to explain my point)
     
  14. urgno

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    Location:
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    after first experiment to discharge the p2v battery
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    click to zoom

    I tried to charging using a different source than the original power supply... a normal 3s lipo was perfect for the job
    the p2v battery was around 50% ... when connected the 3s lipo the current was around 4-4.5Amps then lowered to about 2 Amps
    so seem that the internal charger of p2v battery get only how many Amps are needed for the charging
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    click to zoom

    next experiment will be to charge two p2v batteries in parallel from 3s lipo or power supply... i have to solder another adapter
    if you see smoke over Venice you know why :mrgreen: :lol:
     
  15. Driffill

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    OMG! where are you making this claim from?

    It dangerous? Bahahaha I used to do that for a living (kind of), you say it's dangerous and in the same breathe use the term "Simply connect them in parallel". Could you please enlighten me on exactly how connecting two batteries of the same chemistry in parallel is possibly dangerous??

    Jump starting cars is two batteries in parallel, and essentially, putting a battery on charge is basically connecting it in parallel to another power source.

    . . . now I'm off to microwave a battery, because I heard that's safer than using mains too!
     
  16. Driffill

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    Nice multimeter :) I was trying to calibrate a current sensor for my phantom, but I didn't know if I was getting true reading using my multimeter like yours, but your trials give me some more hope, eventually I hooked up an analogue ammeter to calibrate it.
     
  17. Squawk

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    Hey Urgno,

    How did your parallel charging of these batteries work out?
    Looking for similar solution and really interested in your findings..

    Cheers,

    Squawk
     
  18. urgno

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    sorry, being very lazy :roll: still not have done a second connector
    but based on my findings of previous post, im very confident that the p2v lipos just need a plain and simple 12.6v input from a power supply
    i think also a car battery will go fine

    im very curious to try to charge one p2v battery turned off with another p2v battery turned on :mrgreen:
     
  19. cavaleiro01

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    Did any of you hear anything about using 2 or even 3 5,200 mAh batteries simultaneously to work with the P2V? They are already selling this attachment on ebay!!! Done in 3D printer.
     
  20. urgno

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    saw that on ebay ... but remember, lipo capacity comes always with the price of more weight :roll: