RANGE? Immersion 600mw tx, with Spironets

[Ozon8r]

I ran the 600mw for the first time yesterday Monday 2/17/14 and easily hit 1600m at same location with zero signal loss out and back regardless of orientation and with the spironet in exact same location on the the p2.

What sort of altitude are you fly at Ozon8r when you are going out to 1600m+ ? I'm aware that we are discussing the possible failings of some of these bits of kit but one of the ciritical factors has to be the altitude that we are flying at.

I was 30-40m above relative position of the home point. I wanted to be sure to clear power lines which are hard to see in the goggles. There were very few obstructions and low tree density. The terrain fell away at the range limit and I am guessing I was 100m AGL, rough estimate.

I did notice a shorter flight time, maybe changing from the 250 to 600. Or it could be the 20knot wind. Need more data to confirm.


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[Ozon8r]

There is a relationship with altitude and control range as far as I can tell, essentially low altitude equals low range. Obviously this is complicated when obstacles and interference are taken into account. Eyesight is another factor! My son can see it further away than I can [FEARFUL FACE]. As Shrimpfarmer points out, it is not hard to put a lot of distance between you and your Phantom in very little time.

This is an important point. You need more than just an unobstructed straight line to your P2 to get good range on your FPV. You need a clean fresnel zone which means you need space above a below your LOS. If you're American, think of a giant football. If you're not, think of a giant rugby ball. This is why more altitude is needed the further you fly horizontally.

Great explanation. Thank you for sharing this.


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[goldfishrock]

Just a quick update on testing....

I received my Helical Antenna today (I bought one of these http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/product_info.php?products_id=26788). I replaced the Spironet on the Black Pearl with the 5 Turn Helical leaving the patch on there too. My P2 is still fitted with the Fat Shark 250mw and Fatshark Spironet.

Wow, a definite improvement over the standard Spironet, I flew out to well over 750m with very clear (a little static here and there) picture. Even on the return trip which normally breaks up quite badly, for the most part it was really good, again a littel static but nothing like before. You could clearly see the diversity receiver on the Black Pearl preferring the the Helical over the Patch once the P2 was over 50m away.

I'd be happy keeping that setup however I will, as promised, try and put together a video comparison of the 250mw, 600mw and different antennae over the weekend if this rain ever stops for long enough. :shock:

 

[Shrimpfarmer]

Just a quick update on testing....

I received my Helical Antenna today (I bought one of these http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/product_info.php?products_id=26788). I replaced the Spironet on the Black Pearl with the 5 Turn Helical leaving the patch on there too. My P2 is still fitted with the Fat Shark 250mw and Fatshark Spironet.

Wow, a definite improvement over the standard Spironet, I flew out to well over 750m with very clear (a little static here and there) picture. Even on the return trip which normally breaks up quite badly, for the most part it was really good, again a littel static but nothing like before. You could clearly see the diversity receiver on the Black Pearl preferring the the Helical over the Patch once the P2 was over 50m away.

I'd be happy keeping that setup however I will, as promised, try and put together a video comparison of the 250mw, 600mw and different antennae over the weekend if this rain ever stops for long enough. :shock:

Great report. I too was eying helical antennas today so pleased to see your results. I look forward to your video review if the rain stops. Thanks for sharing.

Shrimpy

 

[freyjoel]

The guy in the video below says he has made it out to 4km with the stock transmitter. In the video "about" section he says he used a 2A wifi booster for the particular run in his video but in a previous run did 4km just with the stock transmitter. Pretty darn awesome.

For the FPV he is using a homemade antenna.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DffH6opm5go#t=393

 

[Ozon8r]

In addition to the helical antenna check out the sniper crosshair antenna by TrueRC available on readymaderc.com. They just added it Monday. It has 80 degree beam width and 13.5Dbi gain. It's a bit steep in price at us$99. But the gain and beam width are better than most helicals and with a much smaller profile.


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[ladykate]

There seems to be a lot of conflicting information. I have a simple setup with stock antennas. I haven't checked max range but I've run into severe (as in SEVERE) video interference in strange places. At 50 meters straight up at a race track far from civilization, I've lost FPV video completely - as in black screen without even noise. On the ground in the same place, the video is very jumpy. Out in the desert with nothing around, I've had crystal clear reception but I didn't go for range - although I believe it would have been good since the FPV at 'normal' ranges was rock solid. Therefore, I doubt some of the claims for 'common' use. While I haven't seen the need for a kilometer of distance, I doubt I would ever get it in my normal flying spaces. If I take it to the boonies with no other people around, then I would expect rock solid performance.

I say all this to say, at least in some respects, we are chasing waterfalls. No doubt superior equipment will rule over cheaper stuff, but superior equipment will not be a panacea.

 

[lotusman]

Which receiver are you using, Blackpearl?

OK, I fitted the Fatshark 250mw earlier and took it for a 15 minute spin. I am pretty sure that it was better than the 600mw. The picture seemed more stable and clearer for longer. I flew it out to about 550m without any significant breakup in signal. It was a little sketchy when I turned it around but quality improved pretty quickly on the return journey.

What I plan on doing this weekend, weather permitting, is I will do a full test on the 600 and the 250, video the results and then you guys can assess for yourself. I've also got a helical antenna arriving in the next day or so I will also do a comparison with that as well.

Does anyone know what sort of range is possible with the 250mw?

I started with the 250mw tx and the first upgrade was the irc spironet antennas on both tx and rx. I have reached 1600m with static going out and complete signal loss when turned 180 degrees with the 250mw tx.

I ran the 600mw for the first time yesterday Monday 2/17/14 and easily hit 1600m at same location with zero signal loss out and back regardless of orientation and with the spironet in exact same location on the the p2. When I switched out to a crosshair antenna on the FS attitude goggles, I pushed out to 2000m with clear video out and back. I turned around bc I wasn't sure I could access the quad if it went down in the terrain and was way outside my comfort zone. I probably could have reached 2000m with the spironets as well given how clear the signal was to 1600m.



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[lotusman]

So we still haven't reached a consensus, is it the black pearl's fault, or the antennas?

Im thinking of ditching my spironet and patch on the rx and going something like this?

HELICAL
http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_45_49_97&products_id=1090

and for the second on the diversity rx
OMNI FAN
http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index. ... ts_id=1158

 

[LeoS]

The guy in the video below says he has made it out to 4km with the stock transmitter. In the video "about" section he says he used a 2A wifi booster for the particular run in his video but in a previous run did 4km just with the stock transmitter. Pretty darn awesome.

For the FPV he is using a homemade antenna.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DffH6opm5go#t=393

Balls of steel. He kept flying away with a blue screen for hundreds of meters then magically regained vision later on?

Btw, FlySight (maker of BlackPearl) also has a video transmitter for sale (500mw or so). I'd imagine if frequency match up is the issue with Black Pearl's performance then using this vTX should ensure as best fit as possible.

 

[goldfishrock]

There seems to be a lot of conflicting information. I have a simple setup with stock antennas. I haven't checked max range but I've run into severe (as in SEVERE) video interference in strange places. At 50 meters straight up at a race track far from civilization, I've lost FPV video completely - as in black screen without even noise. On the ground in the same place, the video is very jumpy. Out in the desert with nothing around, I've had crystal clear reception but I didn't go for range - although I believe it would have been good since the FPV at 'normal' ranges was rock solid. Therefore, I doubt some of the claims for 'common' use. While I haven't seen the need for a kilometer of distance, I doubt I would ever get it in my normal flying spaces. If I take it to the boonies with no other people around, then I would expect rock solid performance.

I had some issues a few weeks ago after replacing my stock tx/rx with a Futaba 8J where the P2 kept losing the signal and going into RTH mode. One of the guys on the forum pointed out that the radiation pattern from transmitters isn't just a nice big 'ball' where are long as you are inside it you get a fantastic picture. The pattern spreads out all over the place and in some parts it's patchy, others strong.

So I believe this is the radiation pattern that most spironets are kicking out. You can see from the vertical gain pattern on the right that there are large areas toward the centre that have little to no signal at all. If you're receiver happens to be in one of these you're going to see static / blue screen etc. This would explain why, even in the desert, you'll find you never get perfect reception at times.

I think that explains it?

 

[freyjoel]

The guy in the video below says he has made it out to 4km with the stock transmitter. In the video "about" section he says he used a 2A wifi booster for the particular run in his video but in a previous run did 4km just with the stock transmitter. Pretty darn awesome.

For the FPV he is using a homemade antenna.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DffH6opm5go#t=393

Balls of steel. He kept flying away with a blue screen for hundreds of meters then magically regained vision later on?

Btw, FlySight (maker of BlackPearl) also has a video transmitter for sale (500mw or so). I'd imagine if frequency match up is the issue with Black Pearl's performance then using this vTX should ensure as best fit as possible.

He still had FPV. He could still fly it first person the whole time. The blue screen was just what his Canon DVR was recording. The Canon would go Blue Screen the moment there was any static but he wasn't using the Canon as his FPV device.

 

[OI Photography]

There seems to be a lot of conflicting information. I have a simple setup with stock antennas. I haven't checked max range but I've run into severe (as in SEVERE) video interference in strange places. At 50 meters straight up at a race track far from civilization, I've lost FPV video completely - as in black screen without even noise. On the ground in the same place, the video is very jumpy. Out in the desert with nothing around, I've had crystal clear reception but I didn't go for range - although I believe it would have been good since the FPV at 'normal' ranges was rock solid. Therefore, I doubt some of the claims for 'common' use. While I haven't seen the need for a kilometer of distance, I doubt I would ever get it in my normal flying spaces. If I take it to the boonies with no other people around, then I would expect rock solid performance.

I had some issues a few weeks ago after replacing my stock tx/rx with a Futaba 8J where the P2 kept losing the signal and going into RTH mode. One of the guys on the forum pointed out that the radiation pattern from transmitters isn't just a nice big 'ball' where are long as you are inside it you get a fantastic picture. The pattern spreads out all over the place and in some parts it's patchy, others strong.

So I believe this is the radiation pattern that most spironets are kicking out. You can see from the vertical gain pattern on the right that there are large areas toward the centre that have little to no signal at all. If you're receiver happens to be in one of these you're going to see static / blue screen etc. This would explain why, even in the desert, you'll find you never get perfect reception at times.

I think that explains it?

Very close The radiation pattern you posted is for a standard dipole antenna (like the straight mast on the controller). Spironet and other similar FPV antennae essentially create multiple overlapping coverage patterns like that...the lobes won't extend quite as far, but it helps eliminate dead spots in the overall emission. Antenna coverage is usually a balancing act between distance and strength, tuning your antenna to do give longer distance in one part of the area usually means you have to give up overall coverage somewhere, and vice-versa.

 

[Baystate12]

Another user with terrible fpv range using black pearl and immersion 600. I'm using stock antennas and I can't go more then 100 meters without horrible reception. I'm using band f channel 4. Not sure what my next route should be I bought a patch antenna and a spironet just waiting for rp sma adapter to fit on black pearl....also on immersion my dip switchs are set to down down up up...

 

[ludedude]

In addition to the helical antenna check out the sniper crosshair antenna by TrueRC available on readymaderc.com. They just added it Monday. It has 80 degree beam width and 13.5Dbi gain. It's a bit steep in price at us$99. But the gain and beam width are better than most helicals and with a much smaller profile.


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This one looks interesting. What antenna would then pair up nicely for the vTx?

 

[Ozon8r]

In addition to the helical antenna check out the sniper crosshair antenna by TrueRC available on readymaderc.com. They just added it Monday. It has 80 degree beam width and 13.5Dbi gain. It's a bit steep in price at us$99. But the gain and beam width are better than most helicals and with a much smaller profile.


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This one looks interesting. What antenna would then pair up nicely for the vTx?

Definitely a skewer planer like the spironet.


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[sfu]

I have the same setup, with spironet omni and patch on the Blackpearl. Video is breaking up on alt around 8m (fpv around mini track and field). Once I go higher altitude ~60m I have good signal at 600m distance. Haven't pushed all the way to 1KM.

 

[GhostMaster]

Just a quick update on testing....

I received my Helical Antenna today (I bought one of these http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/product_info.php?products_id=26788). I replaced the Spironet on the Black Pearl with the 5 Turn Helical leaving the patch on there too. My P2 is still fitted with the Fat Shark 250mw and Fatshark Spironet.

Wow, a definite improvement over the standard Spironet, I flew out to well over 750m with very clear (a little static here and there) picture. Even on the return trip which normally breaks up quite badly, for the most part it was really good, again a littel static but nothing like before. You could clearly see the diversity receiver on the Black Pearl preferring the the Helical over the Patch once the P2 was over 50m away.

I'd be happy keeping that setup however I will, as promised, try and put together a video comparison of the 250mw, 600mw and different antennae over the weekend if this rain ever stops for long enough. :shock:

Great test, i am waiting too see the 250mw vs the 600mw.

 

[goldfishrock]

I managed to get a couple of test flights in yesterday with the Fat Shark 250mw. These are the two comparison videos showing a Helical vs Spironet on the Black Pearl. I now need another window of reasonable weather to duplicate this with the ImmersionRC 600mw… however these show some interesting detail to be going on with…. I apologise for the shaky camerawork at the start!

Spironet Tx / Spironet Rx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV131HXLkCc

Spironet Tx / IBCrazy Helical (5-Turn) Rx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du-gLh_KcLo

 

[GhostMaster]

First test was with the 13dbi patch antenna from immersionRC or only the SpiroNet circular polarized?